Easy Raider

[Algirdas]

Genghis,
I see you have made a few positive comments on the Easy Raider - do you have any experience of the pros/cons of the various engine options?

Or does anyone else out there have any views on the Easy Raider?

Or does anyone else out there have any views on the Easy Raider?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well I've flown the 503 and Jabiru engine fits, and enjoyed both. If there are any other engines available, I'm afraid I've not flown them so can't offer any opinion.

But, frankly if I had an even choice of a 503 or Jabiru version, that's no choice. The Jabiru (once it's working properly) may give you almost 30kg less payload, but it's quiter, smoother, less thirsty, about doubles the climb performance and shaves a fair bit off the take-off distance.

And you've still got enough for 2 large adults and full fuel anyway - so that would be my choice every time.

The one thing is I really don't like about the type is the electronic pitch trim, if you are building one I'd go for the mechanical cable trimmer, which I find much easier to fine-trim with, although it can take a bit of mucking about to setup right at the start. (One other building hint, put the compass bracket exactly where they recommend, it puts it exactly on the horizon line for a perfect 3-pointer every time.)


Incidentally the data sheet for the aeroplane is online here (http://www.bmaa.org/upload/techdocs/200381920780.hm06_3.pdf) (about 400k).

G

[Algirdas]

Genghis,
you are a gentleman!
That confirms what I'd been thinking.
The other option I was interested in was the BMW - but I suspect the only real advantage over the Jab is cost.
Thanks!

[Algirdas]

Genghis,
you are a gentleman!
That confirms what I'd been thinking.
The other option I was interested in was the BMW - but I suspect the only real advantage over the Jab is cost.
Thanks!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Most people I know who have converted BMWs did so because they wanted a BMW. By the time you've bought a gearbox, made-up adaptor plates, designed and got approved engine mounts, got the cooling right, written a maintenance schedule....

The off the shelf option is usually cheapest !

G

[Algirdas]

Thanks for the steer, Genghis.
What did you mean by (once it's working properly) re the Jab???
Are there common gremlins to overcome??

Also, any comment on the wooden prop vs the composite ??

[Genghis the Engineer]

I test flew one homebuilt Easy Raider for BMAA which generated a fraction of the power that it should and kept overheating - I think it was a reconditioned early model Jabiru that probably should have been consigned to a scrapyard. I also know somebody else who had an oil cooler develop a tiny high-pressure leak and spread the underside of the aircraft with oil - rather messily.

Basically I think that the Jabiru is a rather installation dependent engine - get it right and it's stunning, get it wrong and much goes wrong. G-OESY, which was Reality's first Jabiru aircraft simply put the front end of a Jabiru aircraft on it, which worked very well (and saves a lot of mental effort too).

Wood versus composite? Frankly I'm not sure that I could ever tell the difference, but the wooden looks more appropriate and is cheaper.

G

[LowNSlow]

Does the Easy Raider have a folding wing, tow home option? Also what sort of cruise can you expect with the Rotax 502 and the Jab 2200?

[Algirdas]

Yup,
great folding wings option - a single handed job to have it flight ready in <10mins from trailer.
The Jab cruise is quoted at 75mph solo vs 70 for a 503.
Don't know how realistic these are, as it's a very draggy plane, but it's a very light plane too, which gives it a great load-carrying capacity - i.e. bloody good range at least in terms of flight time.
There is also a long-range tank option (std=40 litres, brings it up to 76 litres).
It appeals to me because I mostly fly alone, and it's tandem seating (great views) high wing (good for viz and farm strip landing) big bungee-suspended wheels - very STOL.
Disadvantages seem to be cruise speed is not great, might be a bit drafty, but apart from that, not too much else from my perspective.

PS - An excellent Auster replacement I would have thought!
Then your hangarage charges will only be whatever Mrs LowNSlow charges.

[LowNSlow]

Cruise speed isn't as much of an issue for me as the folding wings. How many of your English pounds does it take to fill one's garage with an Easyraider and trailer?

[Genghis the Engineer]

http://www.realityaircraft.com/images/Trailered1.jpg

http://www.realityaircraft.com/

Looking at the website above, about £12.5k+VAT for a 503 kit, and about £16.5k+VAT for a Jabiru kit. Doesn't show a price for the trailer.

I'd say 70kn and 75 kn is about right for the two versions, but equally in my experience best range speed is nearer 60kn. It's not, let's be honest, an aeroplane for people in a hurry.

G

[Algirdas]

I read somewhere that a purpose-built trailer is about £2k, but I'm sure you could get one made a lot cheaper than that if you are willing to forgo all the fancy winches and jacks.

[LowNSlow]

Thanks for the link Genghis. Very interesting indeed. From what I remember of the magazine article, it is a relatively easy aircraft to build. I was surprised at how much faster the 14l/h cruise was for the Rotax 912 compared to the Jab 2200.

This is all very tempting. Anybody fancy an Auster Autocrat?

[Algirdas]

LowNSlow,
unless I'm missing something, I don't think the 912 is an option - the only ones I am aware of are the 503, a BMW, or the Jab.
I think there is at least one HKS version stateside (the US version is a Sky Raider II), but none over this side of the pond.

[ToryBoy]

Must admit, I have looked into these types of a/c (Easy Raider, Kitfox etc.) and cannot understand why Piper Cubs are still going for such silly money with these cheap modern alternatives.

Given the choice of a 60 year old cub for £20k or a year old Kitfox for £12k I know which one I'd opt for.

I have spent hours deliberating over whether I should chop in the PA28 (which only ever has 2 seats used at most) and buying something like the Easy Raider for good old fashioned bumbling. If I did need to tour with more than two then it would be easy to go and hire a four seater as and when required.

I think I have come to a cross roads in my flying where I am getting tired of flying the old spam can at 105 kts to a different airfield at the weekend just because I haven't been there yet. I appreciate these kit planes are slow and that has put me off until now. However, my theory is as follows.

I fly for the pleasure of flying. Why do I really want a fast 4 seater as its speed only reduces my airborne time and increases the cost of doing the thing I enjoy the most.

Buying a four seater has brought me the following......

1. More requests from people to take them flying (some of whom I don't really like!).

2. Increased insurance costs.

3. Increased maintenance costs.

4. Increased fuel costs.

5. Increased feeling of guilt if I don't fly for two weeks as I feel I am not justifying a £40,000 toy.

Buying a four seat spammer is the "natural" way to go when one passes their PPL. This is fine if the intention of the pilot is for pure touring. I fly over 100 hrs a year and still look wistfully up in the sky when a "fun" plane like a kitfox passes overhead on a summers evening. This is because I imagine him, doors off, shorts on, taking in the view and most of all...........having fun.

Do I win an award for going completely off topic with this post?!!:ugh:

[Algirdas]

Nah, that's exactly what this topic is all about - my conclusions are the same as yours - something like the Easy Raider gives you
- cheap flying (as cheap as it gets),
- no hangarage costs unless you want them,
- loads of fun really FLYING,
- slow enough to make the whole thing very relaxing, and give you the time to absorb all that lovely ground detail
- the ability to chuck a tent in the back if fly-ins are your bag,
- the ability to get in and out of the tiniest of farm strips, where you can meet some of the most interesting flyers,
- the ability to hop along and cover great distances if you really want to, and have the time,
- to float around on a summer's day, doors off, great view, with a big grin on your face.
I'm sure I've missed a few more, but it does it for me.

:ok:

[QDMQDMQDM]

Given the choice of a 60 year old cub for £20k or a year old Kitfox for £12k I know which one I'd opt for.

Have you flown a cub? You buy all the things you have just described, plus a living piece of aviation heritage, dripping with character and which has had all the problems ironed out of it long ago. Given the choice above I know which one I'd opt for.

QDM

[LowNSlow]

Algirdas the Rotax 912 is an option on the side by side version. Sorry for the confusion :D

[ToryBoy]

I have flown a Cub. A delight to fly and a great way to see the countryside. Unfortunately the one I flew was found to have frightening corrosion levels at its next annual and that has put me off slightly.

[LowNSlow]

Toryboy it doesn't have to be a summer day. As the weather here is lovely right now, I just popped down to the airfield (20 mins away) pushed the old Auster out and did circuits for 30 mins. Quick wipe down with a clean rag (the Auster not me) and back home for a bit of Ppruning :D :D :D

Don't let the bad experience of the Cub put you off, they really are delightful, if grossly overpriced, machines and most of them are well maintained. Austers do the same as a Cub (or even more) for a lot less dosh. The only reason I'm thinking of selling mine is the recently increased hangarage costs. However, if a certain person sells his Falcon (keep your hair on, hee hee hee) then I'll have somewhere cheaper to park the Auster.

[Algirdas]

LowNSlow Re 912 - That's the Escapade you're talking about - looks pretty good, but for me it loses out with side-by-side vs tandem (s-b-s good if you fly with a passenger a lot, but otherwise not for me), and also the load-carrying is compromised. The Easy Raider is exceptional for load, the Escapade is pretty average for a microlight. The aerodynamics have been cleaned up a bit over the Easy Raider, so cruise speed is published as being better despite the extra width, but the difference is not night & day.

Re the sub-thread on Cubs - I really love these too, but age & cost do make them 2nd (3rd/4th/5th ...?) choice for me - apart from which with my NPPL(M) I can't fly them without all the additional grief and expense of an SEP rating......:{

[Monocock]

Algirdas

If you get an Easy Raider then bagsy a go!

They look like a right laugh..........good luck

M

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've not flown a Kitfox, but suspect from those I've looked at that it's a basically sound aeroplane, but probably not quite as a refined a design as either the Easy Raider or the Cub. As to how refined the individual aeroplane is - well that depends upon the actual aircraft and the design isn't really the issue.

Comparing the Easy Raider and Super Cub, and I've a reasonable number of hours in each. Construction is similar, the Easy Raider is the better short field aeroplane, cheaper to run and much more fun to throw about, the Supercub is more comfortable with more elbow room, is by far the better tourer - and offers a certain olde-worlde chique.

No idea about the J3 versus PA18 Cubs, since I'm afraid I've only flown the PA18.


Where the Easy Raider or Escapade are concerned, they're both homebuilts, so the builder has the right to fit any engine they can within the power and weight limits, and I doubt that a 912 would give you a problem on either. But, I'm not sure either needs the extra power of a 912.

Incidentally, I've flown the Escapade (the twin-stick / side-by-side version) also - which gives you a choice of which end you prefer the third wheel, and much prefer the taildragger to the nosewheel version. Mainly I don't like the lack of a steerable nosewheel (the tailwheel IS steerable), which makes it a bit of a beast on the ground.

G

[Kingy]

Genghis,

I've flown both the J3 (L4) Cubs and PA18s and can tell you that the J3 is much nicer to fly - more direct controls, far more chuckable and no silly flaps to worry about. If you ever get a chance, have a go in a J3 - you'll like it!

Kingy (still lovin his tatty old Cub..)

[QDMQDMQDM]

Comparing the Easy Raider and Super Cub, and I've a reasonable number of hours in each. Construction is similar, the Easy Raider is the better short field aeroplane

Are you genuinely comparing like with like? Will an Easy Raider at gross perform as well as a PA18 and, if so, how do the useful loads compare? The PA18 one-up, half tanks, no bags, is a different aircraft to one at gross, although even then it's performance is excellent. The PA18 is a true bush aircraft, a load hauler with the strength to get in and out of some very rough, very short strips. This is short field:

http://www.supercub.org/copper/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=&pos=4

QDM

[Algirdas]

QDMQDMQDM That looks more like a variable length strip to me - somewhat dependent on tide level????:E

[QDMQDMQDM]

I believe that's a mud flat in a river.

Seriously, alleging that there are aircraft superior to a Super Cub when it comes to overall STOL performance is an unwise occupation. You end up very quickly with a swarm of irate, rednecked Super Cub pilots on your tail. :D

QDM

J3 is much nicer to fly - more direct controls, far more chuckable and no silly flaps to worry about

Kingy,

The PA18-150 needs flaps. It's a lot heavier than a J3 and they improve the performance dramatically in all respects.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Stripping out any safety factors, and taking a fully loaded aircraft (both sets of values are from my own notes taken from official operators manuals)...


Super-cub
TODR 153m
LDR 270m
Climb Rate 960 fpm
Glide: 12:1
Useful load - no idea, anybody ???

Easy-raider Jabiru
TODR 255m
LDR 279m
Climb Rate 740 fpm
Glide 7.5:1
Useful load - about 225kg / 495 lb.


Which is pretty similar. But personally I found the Easy Raider easier to get in and out of a short strip - that's a personal impression only but the steeper power-off glide and slower flying speed are probably the reasons for those impressions.

And I'd certainly agree that both aeroplanes are very different beasts at MTOW compared to solo with half tanks. But both are pretty damned good aeroplanes in both cases !

G


N.B. If we are comparing serious STOL performance, I'd suggest that an aeroplane called the Savannah (http://www.sandtoft-ultralights.co.uk/) , whilst a much less cute aeroplane than either - knocks both into a cocked hat.

[Kingy]

Qdm,

The PA18-150 needs flaps. It's a lot heavier than a J3 and they improve the performance dramatically in all respects

Sorry mate disagree with this, they don't really lower the stall speed much do they, what 2-3mph on the second stage? They add a lot of drag though and make it easier to see over the hose.
Cubs are just about the best slipping machines ever invented - give me variable drag I can throw away in an instant any day over drag flaps. Of course you could slip a PA18 as well as using the flaps, but most Super Cub fliers seem not to...

Also on the STOL thing, Super Cubs are not the last word. I've seen a Yak 12 in action - almost unbelievable STOL performance. I'm talking a few feet take off roll - makes my L4 and probably your PA18 look like like an overloaded PA28 on a hot day! Damn it

Kingy

PS come and have a go in my Cub if you've not flown a L4.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Kingy,

We disagree. I think you can land a lot slower and shorter with full flap in a 150 than without it and take off slower and shorter. In my opinion, a 150 without flaps would be partly disabled.

Genghis,

My book (the pre-1974 SC manual) gives a take-off run for the PA18-150 of 200 feet (61 metres) and a landing roll of 350 feet (107 metres). I'm guessing you're using figures there for a 50 foot height obstacle? Even so, the SC beats the Easy Raider on take-off by 100m which is a lot. Useful load for the 150 is approx 820lbs (371kg).

The Super Cub clearly beats the Easy Raider for STOL performance and carriage of useful load. Yes, it's an older aircraft and uses more fuel, but there is also a wealth of experience behind it. I'm not saying there should never be a new aircraft developed and flown, but how many hours has the Easy Raider flown and how many hours have the world's 10,000 Super Cubs and countless J3s and L4s flown? It's fair to say the flight envelope, structual integrity etc etc of the Cub family have been more thoroughly explored than the Easy Raider. For me that's a very important issue in an aircraft I may want to fly into tight situations.

QDM

[Genghis the Engineer]

I am quoting take-off and landing distances to/from 50ft - the only other method is that used by salesmen !


I'm not arguing that either aeroplane is necessarily better than the other - I'm comparing the two from a position of reasonable knowledge. Hopefully other people deciding whether to buy or build, and if so what, can get something from that.

The Cub is bigger, faster, with a better payload - it's also more expensive to buy and run and doesn't ground-transport with anything like the same ease. They are different aeroplanes with their own strengths and weaknesses - all I'm saying is recognise that (between two excellent flying machines) rather than discount either. And the thread was started about the Easy Raider !

G

[QDMQDMQDM]

The Cub is bigger, faster, with a better payload - it's also more expensive to buy and run and doesn't ground-transport with anything like the same ease. They are different aeroplanes with their own strengths and weaknesses - all I'm saying is recognise that (between two excellent flying machines) rather than discount either. And the thread was started about the Easy Raider !

Fair enough, good point. QDM will shut up now.

Best,

QDM

[Algirdas]

Genghis
Having started the thread - I have certainly gotten a lot from it - and from your comments in particular.
Funnily enough, one of the other planes you mentioned was one I considered - the Savannah. But I'm not keen on side-by-side, and it doesn't seem to transport easily.
The other 2 I discounted for the same reasons are the SkyRanger and the Escapade.
I think I'll just bite the bullet come summer and get a shiny new Easy Raider Jab kit.
Thanks for the views, all!

[Fly Stimulator]

QDM,

Thanks for posting the supercub.org link. I'd been trying to remember where to find this amazing photo (http://www.supercub.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=supercubs&id=ayk) that you once posted.