Oxford fully booked - who are the other top schools?

[Arrowhead]

Oxford told me today that they are fully booked for modular instrument ratings until March... but waiting that long could mean missing getting employed for the summer 04 season. :(

Does anyone know who the perceived 3-4 top other schools are, that all the presenters at the Flyer show were alluding to?

I know Bae in Jerez is probably one but I am concerned whether their reputation will continue under new management....

And please, no answers from flying schools!! :yuk:

[Groundloop]

The "new" management at Jerez is the old management. It was a management buy-out from BAE.

[mad_jock]

Leeds flying School, If you get Kevin Rowel are pretty good.

But again they normally have a bit of a waiting list.

Tayflight in Perth also have a fairly full order book

And i have also heard that there is a new instrument school at Prestwick, don't know anything about them though but it could be a option if you require a quick IR

MJ

[scroggs]

There are many, many good schools all over UK. Check out the CAA's website for a comprehensive list of all those approved for instrument training and issue of an IR.

Remember that the school you did your training at is irrelevent on your CV; it's the fact that you hold the rating that is important.

Scroggs

[Arrowhead]

Scroggs - why then did all three of the presenters at the Flyer show (DHL, BA, Astraeus) say that flying schools are not created equal, and that it does matter who you have on your CV when applying to them??

[Rubber Dagger]

Atlantic Flight Training at Coventry are supposed to be very good. Give them a call. :ok:

[scroggs]

I was not at the Flyer show, so I'll have to take your word for what those presenters said. However, BA are not recruiting low-hour pilots and will not be for some time to come, so why they should have an opinion on this isn't clear to me. DHL and Astraeus may do so, but in very small numbers. It may be that they take some note of which school their interviewees went to, but I seriously doubt that they would reject a good, properly qualified prospect on the basis of which school they attended.

All schools offering CAA/JAA training are audited by the CAA to ensure that their training is up to standard. The skills tests and ratings are administered by CAA-appointed examiners to a fixed schedule with well-understood minimum requirements for achieving a pass. That is why it is the qualification, not the school, which is important to the employer.

However, it is certainly true that schools vary in the standards of the overall package they deliver to you, the customer, and that you should choose carefully to whom you give your cash.

Scroggs

[boeingbus2002]

At the BALPA EOC, BA and some others mentioned when recruiting, they would condsider low hour guys from "Approved" or "Recognised" schools.

As Scroggs mentioned, the CAA has a list of their "Approved" schools, so does that mean they are all included?!!

[Man Flex]

I know for a fact that airlines whenever they are considering recruiting low hours pilots tend to approach either OATS or BAE. Whether this is for historic reasons or through reputation these schools are the ones that regularly recommend newly qualified students to airlines.

I am not belittling other schools or their training either, I am merely stating an industrywide fact.

[scroggs]

There are a number of schools which have been established long enough, or are large enough, to have had traditional links with some airlines. That by no means implies that those, or any other, airlines will only recruit from those schools - that is, when airlines resume recruiting from schools!

Those schools include Cabair, BAe Jerez, OAT, Cranfield, and a number of others - which I'm sure will get a mention shortly ;) . There are many, many good schools which don't have these traditional links, which, in any case, may no longer be valid in the emerging upturn in the market - Al Q'aeda and their henchmen allowing.

I reiterate: it is the qualification, not the school, which is important to your future employer. The school is only important to you, as the customer, so choose it carefully.

Scroggs

[PPRuNe Towers]

Backing up Scroggs 100%

Until the school results are published in an agreed format you are relying on marketing people and their budgets or word of mouth recommendations. There are no facts out there for you despite making a huge investment in your career.

UK schools; public, state, primary and secondary have to publish theirs so we can make informed choices. I'm pretty sure those working at the FTO's take plenty of interest in them as decent family types - the sort of people who you'd trust with your money.

The CAA have all the figures, you are customers of theirs. They publish figures on airline performance - the expertise and data processing capability is already there - it just needs linking to the schools in addition to you as individuals. Neutral, factual and from the regulator.

hmmmmm, as a card carrying member of the awkward squad I think I might have a germ of an idea for the PPRuNe fund. That's if the schools and CAA don't start matching the rest of UK industry in providing performance information pretty soon.

Applying pressure and seed money for something that will assist every single wannabee instead of just a few. Gut feeling and experience suggests that word of mouth regarding ground schools will come up with relatively few suprises but I think the really expensive parts of your training could be very interesting indeed.

(wanders off muttering thoughtfully into the distance............)

Regards
Rob

[Harves]

Hi Arrowhead....first post for me for a fair while.

First thing I wondered is about your profile. Is it up to date, its just that I noticed it said you were PPL/IMC...have you got your ATPL ground exams and your CPL because I noticed you were enquiring about your IR in relation to Summer 04 employment which I guess as you know is building steam now. I hope you don't think I am patronising you. I am sure you have these in the bag, but I have to say just lacking one of these will make it a tight run for you.

Anyway on the presumption that your profile is not up to date and that you just need the IR I will just say this based on my experience.

With all deserved due respect to Scroggs and Towers, I know from recent experience that CURRENTLY the employers are looking to the "top schools" BAe OATS Cab etc. This is hard for me because I started at BAe and had to leave due to a family crisis back home in the UK. I ended up completing my CPL/IR at Southend. Now don't get me wrong here, but I consider myself the better pilot for that in many ways (best of both worlds). I have faught that corner at the last two BALPA jobs conferences and it is tough to get over.

The point is however, if an employer can't see you for your personality and ability...(as Scroggs said you have the paper), then maybe that isn't the airline for you. Afterall..it is only a filter while there are so many of us out there. You wan't an IR quickly and an approved school such as I completed at will give you one on one friendly but critical advice and get you there in the shortest route.

I seem to have gone on a bit but I hope you get my point.

Drop me a mail if you want more info.

Good Luck anyway whatever way you go:ok:

[machonepointone]

First of all, let me reiterate what Groundloop said about the management at Jerez. Also the staff are the same so there will be no difference in the standard and quality of training there.

Second, as far as potential employers preferring certain schools is concerned, apart from the reputation that some of them will have built up over the years, another possible reason is that the preferred schools tend to conduct integrated training as well. Now I know that the question originally was about modular training, but employers are better able to get the complete training record of potential employees from such schools if they have done integrated training, and perhaps the habit rubs off onto modular training. Just a thought.

Bottom line, however, is that the IR Skill Tset is the same for everybody, as are the written exams, so the end product ought to be exactly the same. Of more interest to the employer should be the applicant's success rate at passing the written and flying tests. To me, first time passes on a modular course should count for more than someone on an integrated course who took several goes to get through everything.

[Man Flex]

Of more interest to the employer should be the applicant's success rate at passing the written and flying tests.

I couldn't agree more. I did what was known back then as the 'non-approved' IR at BAE. During my training (which lasted two weeks) I was aware that airlines had representatives on campus and that the school often recommended students to these representatives. Only a few weeks afterwards I received a flyer from Britannia (completely out of the blue) informing me of recruitment at the airline and a telephone number to call for an application form.

I wonder if that would have happened if I had gone elsewhere?

P.S. I know of an airline that has actively recruited three cadets recently from a certain integrated course conducted in southern Spain.

[Meeb]

Rob:... as a card carrying member of the awkward squad

Where do I sign up...? oops, already a member methinks... :p