Salary Justification

[FairPayer]

Just read this in "The ten most overpaid jobs in the US" article referred to on another thread.

"While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.

By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. In what amounts to a per-passenger commission, the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet. It's as much the airplane mechanics who hold our fate in their hands."

If the assumption that flying a 747 is not exponentially more difficult than flying a commuter jet is fair then why do captains of 747's earn so much more? Do coach drivers earn twice as much as mini bus drivers? Do mini bus drivers earn twice as much as limo drivers? Do limo drivers earn twice as much as taxi drivers? etc etc I'm sure experience is a big factor but a 20yr 747 captain will still earn significantly more than a 20yr commuter jet captain.

I'm interested in this from a business model/economics perspective and am not trying to bash senior/747 captains. I am a free market supporter so if your combination of qualification, skill and experience means you can command twice the salary of someone doing an 'apparently' similar job then fair play to you. Equally, if an airline can find someone with the right qualifications, skill and experience to do the job you do for half of what they pay you then fair play to them.

If this renumeration model prevails through tradition or union strength can we expect the captains of the new A380's to earn significantly more than current 747 captains?

[Avius]

I may get some criticism for what I'm writing, but flying a 747 -or a widebody for that matter- in a long haul operation is quite different than flying domestically on short haul routes.

It is not the handling of the Aircraft itself, but rather the experience that counts. Handling a 747 is probably easier than say a Canadair regional jet (I've flown both). I'd bet, that a short haul guy will manually fly his jet smoother and more precise than a long haul guy.

However, when it comes to incorporating all factors of the flight operation (Weather, Route experience, alternates, etc.) flying on longhaul routes requires significantly more experience than shorthaul - simply because it is more of a strategic game.

There are also some operational issues of long haul (jetlag, nightflight, etc.) which are a factor in pay. (After all, industry pays nightshift workers in many cases more than dayshift)

Last not least, is is also a matter of responsibility. A 747-400 costs some 150 Million U$ and carries 500 pax, while a Canadair jet is some 15-20 Mio U$ (??) and carries 50 pax.

Compare that to - say a loan officer in a bank. Based on experience and seniority one loan officer is allowed to appove loans up to 500.000 U$, while the more experienced loan officer can sign up loans up to 5 Mio. U$ and obviously makes more than the less experienced guy, doing the same job. (by the way - I'm not far off that this banker probably makes more than 250.000 U$/Year.....is that overpaid ????...your call !!!!)

There are many more examples like that and there will always be somebody, wanting somebody else's perks. It's just human nature.

Pilots TODAY are certainly not overpaid.....probably significantly underpaid - that is for both - short haul and longhaul pilots.

One can not argue the laws of supply and demand, but if it was up to some airline executives, the safety standards would be dangerously compromised (as they in deed already are - in some companies). That's why it is important -more than ever- to have a powerful union representative.

FairPlayer......the integrity of an automated system still depends on what is entered into the system at the first place. Everybody, who ever worked at a IT help desk can probaly understand what I'm talking about......the phone calls of high ranking executives, who complain that their latest windows XP machine will simply not boot...... All Bill Gates's fault......Only after several minutes of verbal abuse you learn that the power cable is not plugged into the electrical outlet..........duuuuh. Ironically, it is likely to be the same guy who will say that pilots work is almost entirely automated, therefore they are overpaid......gimme a break !!!


Cheers

[FairPayer]

Avius,

Understood and agreed with a lot of your post. The bit at the end about Bill Gates and the Helpdesk went over my head entirely but not to worry.

I was looking for a bit of perspective on this issue from a pilots viewpoint and hadn't factored in some of the less obvious issues such as long haul, more complex weather, overnight stop overs, greater responsibility etc. The argument made in the article I quoted made the comparison between commuter jet guys and widebody guys appear more apples to apples than perhaps it is.

I guess the relationship between # PAX carried and Captains renumeration is not as linear as proposed in the article.

You should see what the article went on to say the West Coast Longshore men earn, it is unbelieveable. From memory its like $113,000 per year for an unskilled guy off loading cargo, $120,000 for the office clerk and $130,000 for the union supervisior. I guess thats what happens when there is no competition and a stranglehold union.

[Daysleeper]

Its a well known fact that in avitaion Pay is inversly proportional to the amount of work being done.
So the longhaul crew watching the FMS crawl its way over the pond for 6 hours while being fed watered and generally doted over by some lovely young thing before sloping off to the 5* hotel earn maybe 10 times the cash of a survey pilot doing 12 hour shifts hand flying round the north sea at 50 feet and living in an unheated caravan in the north of scotland in winter.
It has always been thus :}