chrisbl
16th Nov 2003, 03:54
Lucky me is spending his Christmas holidays in the US this year so as usual, I thought that a spot of flying would be pleasant.
I have been flying in the US since 1994 when I first went out there.
Get the FAA certificate in the first place was straight forward and there it sits in my licences folder taunting me to go to the US to enjoy cheap flying.
It always pays to read exactly what it says on the certificate and it says this "....and valid only when accompanied by UK pilots license number PP******A. All restrictions.........."
PP*******A was issued in 1988 and is of course the old brown coloured licence.
This set me thinking because I had had a new document from the CAA printed on a load of white sheets called a Flight Crew Licence following a change of address.
This document is the new style licence and it has a new licence number UK/PP/******D/A where the numbers were the old CAA medical reference number.
This change has now made the FAA certificate invalid and I now have to apply to get a new one.
The real bummer is that you cannot simply get the number changed to reflect the new UK number. No, you have to go through the exact same process that was set up post 9/11 as people applying for a first issue under FAR 61.75.
This was straight forward apart from having to pay the CAA £15 so that they can tell the FAA my licence is valid. ( The FAA charge nothing). When I get to the US, it means either a 5 hour round trip by car to the FSDO office to get the certificate issued or do a 3 hour round trip by air as part of a check ride for the same purpose.
So this change in numbers by the CAA could cost me $300 plus £15.
In the end and after discussion with a flight school, I have decided to do the additional training (3 hrs ), do the flight and knowledge tests and get the FAA certificate in my own right and the CAA can do what they like in the future.
There is only one drawback to this. To do any training in the US a student visa is needed. There is a brillant post elsewhere here about this. There is a bit of paperwork to do and as another poster some time ago mentioned a visit to the US embassy is now necessary.
In total I spent 7 hours filling in forms for the visas and the verification process. Fortunately I only spent 90 minutes at the US Embassy (Nov 2003)
In fact I have spent more time on the paperwork than the training plus flight test process will take.
The point is though is that if anyone is flying on their FAA certificate quoting their old CAA number and they have a new CAA number you could be in big trouble. Not only would you be liable to a federal penalty and could lose the right to have a US certificate, the insurance is likely to be void and if there is aprang, then it could prove costly for you, your family or your estate.
If you are in any doubt look at Q&A 522 (it refers to a German pilot) in section 61.75 of this FAA FAQ. I have also copied below the link for those who cannot be fagged to look it up!
http://www1.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc
QUESTION: My question involves whether the procedures set forth in Notice8700.15 apply to this German citizen who currently holds a § 61.75 private pilot certificate that lists the license number of his old German pilot license. His new German pilot license has a different number. The person wants to correct his § 61.75 private pilot certificate and have it reissued to reflect the license number of his new German pilot license. Do the
application requirements and procedures set forth in Notice 8700.15 apply?
ANSWER: Ref. § 61.75(a) and (b)(2) and FAA Notice 8700.15, Page 10,paragraph 4. S(1); Yes, the application requirements and procedures set forth in FAA Notice 8700.15 apply even if the application is for are-issuance of a § 61.75 private pilot certificate on account of a numbering change in the person's foreign pilot license. The basis for my answer is predicated on paragraph 4. S(1) in FAA Notice 8700.15 where it states ". . .A person who is applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating on the basisof a foreign license must be informed that he or she should try to pre-apply for that pilot certificate at least 60 days before arriving at the designated FAA FSDO where the applicant expects to receive the U.S. pilot certificate . . ."
Additionally, paragraph 3 ("Applicability") in FAA Notice 8700.15 establishes that FAA Notice 8700.15 applies to the issuance of ". . . U.S.pilot certificates and ratings to persons who apply on the basis of theirforeign pilot licenses . . ."
So, in effect, the person ". . . is applying for a U.S. pilot certificate /ratings on the basis of a foreign license . . ." [i.e., paragraph 4. S(1) in FAA Notice 8700.15] when the person makes applicationfor a U.S. pilot certificate on account of a numbering change in his/herforeign pilot license.
In a review of this question with Emily White, FAA Flight Standards'International Liaison Staff, AFS-50, she further verified the answer as she stated:
"This is how we have been treating the issuance of § 61.75 pilot certificates before the need to verify the authenticity of foreign pilotlicenses. With the introduction of JAR-FCL in Europe, some of the countrieshad to issue new pilot license numbers to their airmen. In those cases, weand the foreign civil aviation authority have determined it is a newunderlying foreign pilot license and thus the § 61.75 pilot certificate onwhich the foreign pilot license was based was no longer valid. Thus, they need to get a new § 61.75 pilot certificate based on their "new" foreign pilot license."
{Q&A-522}
This FAQ has equally exciting Q& A s on all sorts of other issues.
CB (BTW of to Naples AC )
I have been flying in the US since 1994 when I first went out there.
Get the FAA certificate in the first place was straight forward and there it sits in my licences folder taunting me to go to the US to enjoy cheap flying.
It always pays to read exactly what it says on the certificate and it says this "....and valid only when accompanied by UK pilots license number PP******A. All restrictions.........."
PP*******A was issued in 1988 and is of course the old brown coloured licence.
This set me thinking because I had had a new document from the CAA printed on a load of white sheets called a Flight Crew Licence following a change of address.
This document is the new style licence and it has a new licence number UK/PP/******D/A where the numbers were the old CAA medical reference number.
This change has now made the FAA certificate invalid and I now have to apply to get a new one.
The real bummer is that you cannot simply get the number changed to reflect the new UK number. No, you have to go through the exact same process that was set up post 9/11 as people applying for a first issue under FAR 61.75.
This was straight forward apart from having to pay the CAA £15 so that they can tell the FAA my licence is valid. ( The FAA charge nothing). When I get to the US, it means either a 5 hour round trip by car to the FSDO office to get the certificate issued or do a 3 hour round trip by air as part of a check ride for the same purpose.
So this change in numbers by the CAA could cost me $300 plus £15.
In the end and after discussion with a flight school, I have decided to do the additional training (3 hrs ), do the flight and knowledge tests and get the FAA certificate in my own right and the CAA can do what they like in the future.
There is only one drawback to this. To do any training in the US a student visa is needed. There is a brillant post elsewhere here about this. There is a bit of paperwork to do and as another poster some time ago mentioned a visit to the US embassy is now necessary.
In total I spent 7 hours filling in forms for the visas and the verification process. Fortunately I only spent 90 minutes at the US Embassy (Nov 2003)
In fact I have spent more time on the paperwork than the training plus flight test process will take.
The point is though is that if anyone is flying on their FAA certificate quoting their old CAA number and they have a new CAA number you could be in big trouble. Not only would you be liable to a federal penalty and could lose the right to have a US certificate, the insurance is likely to be void and if there is aprang, then it could prove costly for you, your family or your estate.
If you are in any doubt look at Q&A 522 (it refers to a German pilot) in section 61.75 of this FAA FAQ. I have also copied below the link for those who cannot be fagged to look it up!
http://www1.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc
QUESTION: My question involves whether the procedures set forth in Notice8700.15 apply to this German citizen who currently holds a § 61.75 private pilot certificate that lists the license number of his old German pilot license. His new German pilot license has a different number. The person wants to correct his § 61.75 private pilot certificate and have it reissued to reflect the license number of his new German pilot license. Do the
application requirements and procedures set forth in Notice 8700.15 apply?
ANSWER: Ref. § 61.75(a) and (b)(2) and FAA Notice 8700.15, Page 10,paragraph 4. S(1); Yes, the application requirements and procedures set forth in FAA Notice 8700.15 apply even if the application is for are-issuance of a § 61.75 private pilot certificate on account of a numbering change in the person's foreign pilot license. The basis for my answer is predicated on paragraph 4. S(1) in FAA Notice 8700.15 where it states ". . .A person who is applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating on the basisof a foreign license must be informed that he or she should try to pre-apply for that pilot certificate at least 60 days before arriving at the designated FAA FSDO where the applicant expects to receive the U.S. pilot certificate . . ."
Additionally, paragraph 3 ("Applicability") in FAA Notice 8700.15 establishes that FAA Notice 8700.15 applies to the issuance of ". . . U.S.pilot certificates and ratings to persons who apply on the basis of theirforeign pilot licenses . . ."
So, in effect, the person ". . . is applying for a U.S. pilot certificate /ratings on the basis of a foreign license . . ." [i.e., paragraph 4. S(1) in FAA Notice 8700.15] when the person makes applicationfor a U.S. pilot certificate on account of a numbering change in his/herforeign pilot license.
In a review of this question with Emily White, FAA Flight Standards'International Liaison Staff, AFS-50, she further verified the answer as she stated:
"This is how we have been treating the issuance of § 61.75 pilot certificates before the need to verify the authenticity of foreign pilotlicenses. With the introduction of JAR-FCL in Europe, some of the countrieshad to issue new pilot license numbers to their airmen. In those cases, weand the foreign civil aviation authority have determined it is a newunderlying foreign pilot license and thus the § 61.75 pilot certificate onwhich the foreign pilot license was based was no longer valid. Thus, they need to get a new § 61.75 pilot certificate based on their "new" foreign pilot license."
{Q&A-522}
This FAQ has equally exciting Q& A s on all sorts of other issues.
CB (BTW of to Naples AC )