ATPL Theory (GULP)

[Epic_mg]

Im studying for my ATPL groundschool exams (Distance Learning) and finding it a real struggle to get the hours in after work. To those that are going through the course now, how many hours study are you managing each night and if anyones completed their ATPL's how long did it take before you achieve your goal.
Im considering turning to part time work and living on a shoe string budget in order to get these exams out of the way asap, anyone any advice?????

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

I am not sure how useful my experience is, due to the fact that I did a full time residential course, but I used to attend the college from 09:00 to 16:15, then cruise off home feed my face watch the news and crack on with study at approximately 18:30. I used to study for between 3 and 4 hours every night, apart from Friday (night off) with periodic breaks and then hit the sack. Weekends I used to try and get 4 hours a day in, depending on how I had done in the week.

Whilst I worked full time, and knowing what it is like and how you feel when you come home, the last thing you want to do is put your head in a book for 4 hours. Therefore, it may be an idea to work part time as you have suggested and devote that extra time to your studies.

I completed the ground school from beginning to end in 24 weeks. From people I have known who have done distance learning, seem to nail it in 9 to 12 months, depending on personal circumstances of course.

Just keep going and you will get there in the end! I have just started my CPL, and believe me it will be worth it :D.

[High Wing Drifter]

The only stuff I have noticed is that it is easier to study outside of home; such as the local Library and even the train to work. This is probably especially so for anybody with kids and missus rampaging around the house, like wot I 'ave!

Also, I found making notes, more often than not, counter-productive. My Bristol notes are so good that anything other than prompts and reminders are going to degrade my learning experience.

Once I forced myself to get going and broke the study 'stiction', the study process developed a momentum all of its own. My motivation has increased as I progress. Really enjoying it now.

All the best and good luck :)

[pa28biggles]

I'm considering studying ATPL theory too whilst I work full time (50hrs per week) Epic_mg.
It seems CAT3C AUTOLAND spent approx 60hrs per week studying, and it took approx 6 months.
I thought that you could spend 15hrs a week, for 12 months. From what CAT3C AUTOLAND has said, maybe not!

Has anybody else studied part time whilst working full time. How long did it take? How many hours per week did you spend studying?

Thanks

[Send Clowns]

Flying For Fun has written a lot of good material on this subject. It is unusual for him not to reply here, but I suspect he is too busy with his CPL at the moment. Try a search, as it is all there!

The recommendation, by the way, is for a minimum of 650 hours study, including the 100 or so in the brush-up courses. However the full-time students do 650 hours minimum in the classroom, plus all their homework.

[Snigs]

I think that 15 hours per week for 12 months would be pretty sensible.

And I totally agree with High Wing Drifter's comments.

When I started my correspondence course (August 2000) I thought I could do 4 hours a night after coming home from work and then weekends for at least 4-5 hours a day. I consider myself to be fairly switched on so I set myself a target of completing Module 1 by that Christmas, and then Module 2 by May 2001.

I wasn’t long into the course before I realised that understanding the stuff wasn’t a problem but the sheer volume of the syllabus was immense. I tried to study more but more meant I became less efficient and I began to get behind my schedule. After probably the worst period of my marriage and absolutely no “other” life I decided to save my marriage and life and work part time and study in a more sociable manner.

I completed and passed Module 1 in December, but it was still hard on my wife, putting up with my short-temper as the pressure built up.

For module 2 I quit work completely and studied my correspondence course full time, I had most of my evenings back and fortunately was able to support myself with a little money I had put away.

The moral, don’t underestimate the amount you have to get through, and don’t set unrealistic targets. Imho, if you’re doing it in the evenings and weekends then allow yourself between 6 to 9 months per module.



My desire and hence my target was to have my frozen ATPL by late 2001 so I could attack the market over the winter when the IT carriers were hiring. I got my (f)ATPL on the 10th September 2001.

[pa28biggles]

Thanks for your input everybody.
I totally agree with you Snigs regarding setting realisitic targets. Im on a full time placement through uni at the moment with a part time job, then I go back to uni in September. The idea was to do the exams between now and going back to uni. Probably an unrealistic target. I may go back to plan A - that is do the ATPL theory when I've graduated.
Now I am going to sound stupid. I've heard people refering to IT carriers - what are they?

[Epic_mg]

Thanks guys for all your advice, its a great motivator knowing that other wannabies have managed to succeed with their ATPL ground studies.

Cheers

Epic_mg

[Mister Gash]

Epic_mg,

I'm in pretty much the same situation as yourself and have just completed the Module 1 exams.

I have a young family and a very demanding career and, for various reasons, it took me quite a bit longer to get through the module than I first anticipated (I thought it would take me six months, but it took 13).

It is hard going, but by no means impossible and it's amazing how much you can get through once you get a decent rhythm going with the study.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the key is motivation. Many of us here know all too well how difficult it is to come home after a bad day at work and then, rather than sitting down to watch some mind-numbing guff on TV with a cuppa like most sane people, study for hours on end trying to get to grips with gyros, global climatology, three-phase tachogenerators etc.

Stick with it and keep the head in the books: there are many distractions but you must stay focused. If you love aviation, you might even begin to enjoy the studying.

Hopefully the soon-to-be-released results of the November exams will confirm everything I've just said... ;)

Gash

[FlyingForFun]

I'm still around - just not quite as regularly as normal ;)

I think this is one of those things where everyone will find there own way of doing it. Personally, the way I did it was to keep a record of my progress somewhere visible. Bristol give you a couple of sheets that show which chapters to study for each frame - I blu-tacked those to the wall, and wrote the date next to each chapter as I did it. I had a target of a couple of chapters per week, and I could see how well I was progressing.

For module 2, I had extra time-pressure because I needed to do the exams before my annual leave expired. I worked out how many chapters per week I needed to do to achieve this, and then I could check that I was on target.

Don't know if that will work for you, but give it a go. And remember that every chapter you study and understand is progress - so as long as you are making progress by doing a chapter fairly regularly, that's fine. It's a long course, so it will inevitably seem like you're not getting anywhere if you don't have a way of measuring it.

Good luck!

FFF
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[Edit because someone pointed out that I'd confused my chapters and frames...]

[54.98N]

Some good posts. I sat around for ages prevaricating and it wasn't until I booked the Module 1 brushup that I started concentrating.

I have completed 85% of Module 1 in 15 weeks including 10 days off for a holiday. HOWEVER, my life has been nothing but work, get in, study, sleep, get up, work and then study oh and weekends are for study too!

It can be done, but as someone previously said motivation is the key. For me I had to get something booked in the diary, otherwise it was manyana....

Good studying..

N54.98N

[Northern Highflyer]

I am 5 weeks into Module 1 and have covered around a third of the material, which equates to around a frame a week as set out by BGS. If I stay on target I will complete the initial study after 14 weeks, but then I will be going back through it all again to make sure it has stuck somewhere in the old grey matter. My target is to take the exams in April or May next year, which will be 6 to 7 months from starting. I am averaging around the 15 hour per week mark and work full time.

I have cribbed the BGS recommended study pattern into a spreadsheet and added boxes to fill in when I have

a - completed the study of a frame
b - completed the progress test

When I feel like I am not making much progress, a quick glance at this reminds me that I am further into it than I realise and is a good motivator.

[AIRWAY]

Hi,

I know what you all going to say PPL theory it's easy, im not saying it's not but the only way i can really set my mind to it and study for hours is if i go to my local library or the aeroclub ( I can start dreaming of the ATPL's studies ).

I work as well so i always make sure that my lunch hour i spend it studying ( at lunch hour im studying Air Law, yes i know it's fun ) So it's an extra 5 hours per week in terms of studying time.

As someone said already if you want to put in the hours you have to leave the house, but if you have a wife and a kid and other duties that will be a hard task... But not impossible

Motivation is a key factor.

[six-sixty]

I'm taking it slow and steady doing about a Bristol-frame worth each fortnight including prog tests. I get up early and commute to London so I get about 2*30 mins each way on the train, then do about another 60-90 mins per eve, which is only when I'm in, which is only about 3 nights per week! 3hrs over the w/e is about average.

From what I've been reading, this level of commitment is definitely not going to get me through, even though at the end of each chapter after a couple of reads I can normally sort out the progress tests.

Like you I've decided that to give myself a decent chance at this I'm going to have to apply myself to it 110% - and with a high responsibility job, working day of 10rs plus 90 mins commuting I just can't see it.

So, I plan to quit my job as early in the NY as I can afford to, and do myself justice. I truly admire those with similar situations to me who manage to put the extreme studying on top of work, but it's not for me.

[Epic_mg]

Once again guys thanks for all your feed back. I am beginning to realise that there is light at the end of the ATPL tunnel, where would us wannabies be without pprune.

Cheers All,

Epic_mg

[troposurfer]

It seems I'm not alone on this one!

I've seen many posts on the forum about which is harder a Degree or an ATPL? This is a largely irrelevant debate. What is interesting is how nearly everyone refers to the sheer volume of information required for the ATPL exams, even those who have done both a degree/ATPL course. The sheer information overload mean't I nearly quit before I got started.

I have found that whilst working really odd hours and studying for the ATPL my social/private life had gone down the tubes, so to speak. I was taking 3 or 4 ATPL books to work, sneaking in a bit of study during quiet periods and getting colleagues to do most of the van driving while I read Met and Air Law at 80mph on the M6 (in the passenger seat of course). I completed Mod 1 in 6 months and to be honest I was well stressed in the last few weeks before the consolidation. My girlfreind wanted to move out!

When I first opened the box containing the ATPL notes I was well chuffed with myself. I had started out on something with real potential and I had made the first real step to becoming a professional pilot after the PPL.

Within a few weeks though the sheer volume of information had started to 'overcome' me. I was thinking I would never get through this module let alone the whole theory course. I only had a few ticks against the assessment sheet with a rather substantial amount of empty boxes still requiring that important tick.

I was having real problems remembering the any of the stuff. It wasn't the understanding that I had a problem with (several posters make that comment too) it was just remembering any of it. Work was playing havoc with me, 14 hour shifts and cancelled days off, up and down the country every day. Air Law came in fuzzy patches, the odd vital word or definition obscured in the mist and Met was getting to be beyond me lost in the file without a name somewhere in my head , my bad study habits and poor time management compounding my problems making it seem that this mountain I was climbing was infact Everest and not as I had at first presumed, Snowdonia.

My study days were now few and far between then non existant, my self discipline diminished and my life became seemingly better without the burden of the studying. I could go out again, spend time p!ssing my hard earned up the wall at the pub, watch Pop Idol and try to ignore the Fokker 100s on finals R32 at EGNM. My girlfriend was happier...................................... for a few weeks but by then I was getting under her feet a bit too much and getting on her nerves even more! "Do you really want to give it up?" she asked. "Yes er No er I don't know" I said. "You'll regret it if you do", "I know" I said.

I was thinking of all the people that had thought this was all just a bit of a dream that I should grow up and get a 'proper job' or something. I looked at them in their 9 to 5 jobs going nowhere and even worse not even realising it. I thought " If I try and fail at least I tried, if I make it then everyones a winner!"

Things to do tomorrow: Put books back in work bag and book consolidation course for September.

I needed a goal and now I had one.

I won't lie to you and say I now studied 10 hours a day and remembered everything I read and it was all hunky dory and I said through consolidation and passed 100% all first time. My Met was way way behind and I was thinking of dropping it, all the less intense subjects had been completed coursework wise and I needed to brush them up before the consolidation. I was still struggling to remember stuff and basic Air Law would not allow itself to be dragged out of my semantic memory even if I offered a bribe in the form of 6 cans of Stella and my best nudie mag.

I rang the course provider and told them my woes. "Don't worry, we'll see you in a few weeks, just get your remaining assessments in for marking before you turn up and you won't be the only one feeling slightly rusty with the notes!"

I turned up for the first day of consolidation feeling really apprehensive. After 2 weeks a and some late nights I was feeling reasonable about the exams. I had started consolidation with some very poor mock exam results but had been buoyed by improving marks and encouraged by the instructing staff who were superb. I still wasn't totally confident in myself but the staff at the groundschool signed me off and told ne I should have more confidence in my abilities as I would go fine in the exams. They told me all the stuff was in there, it was their job during the consolidation to help it out and build on the 'locked in' knowledge.

Exam week came, exam day came. I remember sitting in the waiting room opposite the hall with all the other wannabees beavering away revising exams questions. I didn't have any with me and I felt a bit 'naked' without any.

The worst bit, i assume for any wannabee, is that 10 day wait for results. The if onlys and what ifs, the questions on the forum sh!t did I get that one wrong what did that one mean, have I passed.

My girlfriend shouted " It's for you says CAA on the front" she was p!ssed off that she didn't get any letters but was happy that I let her open mine. I sat in disbelief as I had not only passed my ATPLs but with really good marks aswell. I had done it Mod 1 ATPL out of the way!!!!! YES!!! A bottle of champers was consumed as was food at a nearby eating establishment. My girlfriend was happy for me as it meant I was paying!


Tips for ATPL distance learning while working full time( these are only my own opinion and are obviously open to debate).

1) pick a reputable groundschool to learn with

2) brush up your maths before you start. If they were writing on a slate the last time you did your times table it will take some time to get up to speed study wise.

3) understand this will be a lot of work and a long process. Don't let other people put you off. Everything worthwhile is hard work, if it wasn't hard work it wouldn't be worthwhile. The JAA ATPL is not an impossible task.

4) if you work fulltime/unsociable hours it will either take you longer or require more dedication to complete the course.

5) call your groundschool for advice. any reputable establishment will have seen a similar problem before and will HELP YOU. It is in their interests to get you through the ATPLs to HELP THEM build on their good reputation. Don't let the 'hangers on' who seem to frequent certain exams up to the max allowable put you off with their "it's really really hard" tales. Do you own work worry about that.

6) you are not alone! Many people do the distance learning route and each has his/her own tale to tell. Maybe the forum could put ATPL distance learning people in touch with each other if they live locally.

7) Stick with it and keep up the momentum. Study in short bursts keep your mind fresh, rehersal aids retention and recollection, if you feel tired take a study break and come back refreshed. It's not at all as bad as it can seem.

8) use you study time wisely. Plan what you will do when you will do it. Don't let the subjects/assessments drag on.

9) minimise distractions, like the wife the kids work etc. Tell the girlfriend not to parade around the house in the nurses outfit and tell the mates you are now into transcendental meditation and can't go down the pub to watch the footy.

10) finally but most important of all......................................BELIEVE IN YOURSELF!!!!!!!
You can do it!