London Metropolitan University

[Pilot16]

Hi,
I would immensely appreciate if people who have studied or are sutdying the ATPL course at London Metropolitan (previously known as Guildhall) university, would share their experience/opinions of the place here.
How did you find the course? how are the the teacher/staff like? resources? do they give you sufficient study material? etc. etc. and anything that you would say about the place to a prospective student or you would like me to be aware of.

Thanks very much in advance
and looking forward to hearing from you. :)

P16

[VFE]

Apparently they are good but I called them three times regarding the use of their PC based question bank (£50 for a days access) and three times they promised to get back to me but never did. I still have not heard from them.

I guess I will just have to try again!

VFE.

[kido]

I studied there last year, and the notes were all photocopies and poorly written with a lot of mistakes. Apparently they have a new re-edited version/set out now with some colour etc??
As for the content, there is plenty, very comprehensive. Goes into great depth, somtimes a little too much. Feedback is very good and as for instructors.......well it goes for all schools.....there are some very good instructors and some not so good.

[Chintito]

Ive just finished first phase at LMU's and so far the verdict is could do better.

The new notes are quite comprehensive and overall cover the syllabus well. A point to note however is how some of the instructors cover the contents. In general the teaching methods of some of the teachers are excellent i found for someone who likes things in noddy language, but the approhaces of a few leave a lot to be desired.

the feedback was good and teachers are genuinely interested in students performances which is a good motivation sometimes.

The folks at guildhall do emphasise that they teach beyond what is necessary. Something some might find a put off, but personally i've found that ive been able to retain alot of knowledge imparted through the lectures that i feel very good about knowing.

having the course spread out in three phases helps a lot ive found. Its an experiment that theyve recently introduced and last i heard nearly all the folks who sat the second phase last month passed all their subjects.

To pass the exams there are more expensive places you can go where you'd no doubt get a better quality product but if your purse strings are a little tight then id definately recommend LMU as you get so much more than what you pay for.


best of luck

[Pilot16]

Thanks very much guys! Very helpful.

More replies would be appreciated though. :)

well I live quite close to the university (it's the Tower Hill branch I believe) and Im also taking that into consideration.

P16

[Sir Digby Spode]

I too, studied at LGU last year. I was on the last of the two stage courses. The notes are very comprehensive, and yes, there are some short falls in some of the notes but not all. Most of the notes are in black and white, and some of the diagrams are poor quality and difficult to read. That is a situation that they are aware of and currently in the process of addressing. I ended up buying the Oxford notes for instruments in order to shed some light on INS's and compasses.
The course was hard work, but I guess that's true with all ATPL courses. The instructors on the whole were very good. Some more so than others, and that, also I guess is true with all schools.
All said, I managed to pass all bar two exams at the first attempt. Like anything, you get out of it, what you put in...

[BroomstickPilot]

Pilot 16

I too was a student of LGU last year and I would agree with all that my contemporaries have said above. Remember, however, that at LGU there are class sizes that may be anything up to 25 people. Thus, less personal attention than you might get in a private school. Private study becomes much more important. See my comments below.

I would add, however, that the biggest problem with LGU is nothing to do with the course but rather its location. The building is right opposite the Tower of London.

LGU does have halls of residence, but you are not allowed to occupy them because all available places are reserved for three year degree students.

The university accomodation office (so called) is a total waste of space: all they do is to give you a list of rooms for rent which they can't even claim to be up to date. That apart, they are no help at all.

There are hostels locally run by private organisations, if you can get into one of these all well and good. However there is intense competition for places in these establishments. If you are over 30 years of age then forget it: they won't admit you even if they have places.

Remember, you are competing for the limited local accommodation with students of
1. other faculties of LGU,
2. students at Queen Mary Westfield College (London Univ.) and 3. students at the City University.

In practice, you are better looking for accommodation in 'LOOT'. Be prepared for it to be an hour or more's commute away. Commuting, apart from being most unpleasant and exhausting, is very expensive in London. Be warned, the ATPL course is VERY HEAVY. You need to be able to do at least three hours of work at home in the evening - every evening. It doesn't help if you arrive home after an hour's strap hanging and feeling utterly b*gg***d.

Quite alot of the accommodation advertised in the local press is in Hackney. Nothing wrong with Hackney exept that it is a tubeless zone; buses only except for some limited main line into Liverpool Street. Not good in the London morning rush hour.

I thoroughly enjoyed the course. We had seven nationalities in our class. Everyone on the course was there to work. Everyone got on well with everyone else. We were, and continue to be, all friends.

If you can just get your accommodation sorted then go for it.

Good luck Kid.

Best regards,

BroomstickPilot

[FlyingForFun]

I live quite close to the universityIn that case, there's no excuse at all for not going to visit them, and make up your own mind on the notes. Some people may be put off by photocopies, for example, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the same thing will put you off - the best way you can tell is to pay them a visit.

FFF
--------------

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Broomstick Pilot,

Regarding your comments about accomodation I had no problem getting somewhere to live, I was advised to make plans well in advance regarding somewhere to live, which I did, and one trip to London got me a place 25 mins cycle from the college at a reasonable price.

Alot of the people I have come across have left finding somewhere to live right to the last minute, and as well as having a ridiculous amount of work to do from the course, they find themself shrouded with the pressure of finding somewhere permanent to live and moving from B&B to B&B.

My advice to anyone considering LMU, with respect to finding a place to live would be to plan well in advance.

I agree with the comments about not wanting to spend hours on end on trains and buses, because as everyone knows who has either done the course or is doing the course, it requires you to study for at least 3 - 4 hours a night, every night.

[BroomstickPilot]

Cat IIIc Autoland

Out of curiosity, how did you go about finding your accommodation, (Loot, local press, Evening Standard or what)?

Hope your career plans are going well!

Best wishes,

Broomstick.

[Pilot16]

Thank very much fr the replies.

Yeah i live around 10-15 minutes bus ride away o LMU seems ideal. I will deffinately give them a visit before I make my move :)

Flyingforfun, Im sure any ATPL school uses photocopies as part of there teaching? Im not sure why people here are specificaly pointing towards the photocopies LMU makes.
Is there some reason to this? like perheps LMU uses too much photocpied material? in that case what would a more posh ATPL school use e.g. Oxford/Cabair?


P16

[BroomstickPilot]

Pilot 16,

About the photocopies at LGU. This is one subject about which I believe my colleagues may have been a little over critical.

Yes, there was some usage of photocopied material, (notably some pages reproduced from a manual on EFIS included in the 'Instruments' notes) but not that much; certainly nothing to get concerned about.

If you live so close to LGU then they would be a good choice.

Best wishes,

Broomstick

[Pilot16]

thanks for the reassurance ;)

[Fogbound]

The JAA examinations are sat on a monthly basis. From these exams schools receive feedback from the CAA and also their students.

If schools are working from old manuals then when new information comes from the exams such as new questions or slightly different wording or phrases they should be issuing ammendments to their students. Where many schools fall down is they do not own the copy right to their manuals and therefore can only issue ammendments as insert pages.

If manuals are being reproduced time after time using a photocopier the print quality is bound to degrade. And I have heard that in some cases the manuals are actually thinner than the pile of ammendments and barely legible.

I work for a school that has the copy right to our own manuals. This means that alterations can be made relatively painlessly and new manuals can be printed rather than photocopied. This means a much better standard is reached in the print quality, legibility and content of our manuals.

There is of course some degree of photocopying involved for some work sheets and practice papers.:O

[FlyingForFun]

Pilot16,

No, I'm not sure why people are pointing towards photocopies as a negative point either. That's why I said, in an earlier post, that this may not put you off.

However, to answer your question, no not all schools use photocopies. Bristol, for example, print all of their notes on very high quality paper. Their feedback is, however, photocopied, and there is a very noticeable difference between the two.

As I've said many times before, everyone looks for different things in a school. There is no real reason why the high quality paper which Bristol use should improve the quality of their training. If you happen to think it's important, then you should take it into account when making your choice. If you don't think it's important, then don't take it into account. Personally, I think it's nice to see a school taking enough pride of their notes to put them onto decent paper using a decent printer, but I doubt it make much difference to the level of training you'll receive.

(Hope my mentioning Bristol on this thread isn't mis-leading. Since they only do distance learning, you won't even be considering them as an alternative to LGU. I only mention them because they are the only school I have first-hand experience of.)

FFF
-------------

[cyclic_fondler]

Cat3c mention that there's 3-4 hours of study every night! How many hours lectures do you get there in a normal day ?

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Firstly guys sorry about the late responses, but I have been sweating over these last few days waiting for my exam results :). Anyway, sweat over, got them today, and managed to do ok :D

Anyway, Broomstick Pilot, I actually used the university list that was sent to me with my starter pack. I looked at a number of places, then made a selection. All turned great for me, I have a shared flat fairly close by, at a reasonble price.

Cyclic Fondler, we work at college from 09:00 to 16:15, with an optional 45 minute tutorial to sort any problems out you may have at the end of the day. Total teaching time is 6 hours. With regard to the time quoted, 3 - 4 hours a night, obviously it depends on the individual. However, I think most people will agree that, due to the volume of work that is involved, this is a fairly typical figure. It takes me a long time to digest certain things, therefore, this is what I try and aim for. I tend to work Saturday and Sunday afternoons aswell, where I have Friday nights off, always nice to relax in the Wetherspoons in tower hill with the guys/gals from college :).

Anyway, I hope this helps you, any questions please feel free to ask.

[chelseafan]

I have just finished at LMU and have found the whole setup perfectly adequate. There may be other groundschool centres that offer more gloss and glamour, but it's not rocket science - if you do the work you pass the exams.

Some of the notes might be a bit 'duff', but they are working on them and you can always ask if you have issues anyway. For the price compared to OAT it is no contest, and worth putting up with the rough edges. Bristol seem to get good reviews as well though.:}

[bobbyboo]

I did my ATPL's at LMU last year and passed them all first time. Whilst the notes were a little less than perfect, I found the lecturers more than made up for them!

[Cruise Contrail]

Well I'm all prepared for the dreaded experience that is Groundschool. All except for one minor thing.... Somewhere to live! :ooh:

Having had my fabulous flatshare fall through, is there anyone looking to share? I'll be at studying at London Met from June. Drop me an email and we can talk.

Cheers

CC

[BroomstickPilot]

Cruise Contrail,

I suggest you attend to your accommodation problem with the utmost dispatch. When I attended LMU, I found accommodation to be the biggest single problem: (see my previous posts on this subject).

Remember, you are competing for the available accommodation with students, not only from other faculties of LMU, but also from Queen Mary & Westfield College (London Univ.) and the City University.

The Students' Union at LMU told me that most students found their accomodation from small ads in 'LOOT'.

Don't expect much from the Student Accommodation Office, they themselves are a waste of space.

If you are a female student, it may be worth trying the YWCA in Great Russell Street (near the British Museum).

Good Luck at LMU.

[Island Hopper]

Well I didn't have any problems at all.

I didn't go to the student accomodation office, I just sorted myself out from the list of local accomodation, which was available from the civil aviation department's office.
That way you aren't 'competing' with loads of other students, just joe public. There was plenty of space within walking distance of tower hill.

I assume they still keep a list.
If so, GET IT!

IH

[jamup]

Hmmmm when I did my ATPL it was LGU and I got all the attention from the two helpfull ladies at LGU civil aviation Dep, J& J they are very Co-operative and very kind too, they know the needs of the students who come from out of London . Worth of trying mate ,, they will not let you down ......


JAMUP 7A 8B

[Master Yoda]

Is anyone here starting the Foundation Degree in Aviation management and Operations (Pilot Option) at London Metropolitan Uni in September?

It's be nice to chat to anyone starting this course....

[CristinaC]

Plz if someone is studying Aviation Management and Operations (pilots) at Lodon Met. I will like to know how good it is. Plz give me some information............... [email protected].........
I will appreciate ur help
thank u

[marco gavazzi]

Hi !!!
Could someone tell me about yhe ATPL distance at London Uni???
Competitive or not with Bristol standards?
Have they got a computer based aid too?
Many Thanks
Corma

[High Wing Drifter]

I think a big problem with this sort of question is very few people have done an ATPL with two schools!

Personally, I cannot fault Bristol (as little as I have done - about a quarter way through) and I was not that impressed with the LGH ATPL for silly pedantic what can I do to make a choice type reasons (if you see what I mean!).

Good luck with the choice :)

[CIPO]

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED BRISTOL OR OXFORD ARE THE ONLY PLACES TO DO GROUNDSCHOOL.
I WAS AT BRISTOL AND I FOUND IT VERY GOOD HOWEVER THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO CONSIDER IS THE QUALITY OF THE FEEDBACK QUESTIONS.
BRISTOL IS VERY GOOD FOR MOST SUBJECTS EXCEPT POF. I WAS LUCKY AND GOT OXFORD STUFF FOR POF, INSTS, AIR LAW AND MET.
BRISTOL IS A VERY FRIENDLY AND HELPFUL PLACE TO STUDY.
DON'T GO SOMEWHERE COS IT'S CHEAPER, U'LL GET SHAFTED WITH YOUR £50 RESISTS!!

GOOD LUCK:ok:

[FlyingForFun]

I looked very closely at London Guildhall. The main benefit seems to be that they structure their course differently to every other school.

When I was doing my research, they had two modules (as do the other schools) - but organised in such a way that the amount of time I'd have to take off work to do the exams was half that I'd need at any other school - which, for me, was a big factor. In the end, I decided that the quality of the notes from Bristol outweighted the advantages of LGU's course structure, and I went with Bristol, so I don't have any first-hand experience of what their course is actually like.

I believe that they don't structure their course in this way any more - but they are continuing to try to innovate with their course structure. As far as I'm aware, they are now the only school which do the course in three modules rather than two. This would, I would imagine, suit people who might find 6-8 exams too many to do in one go, and would prefer to spread them out more.

As with me, if their course structure appeals to you then you will have to weigh this against any other advantages/disadvantages to make your choice.

FFF
-------------

[Number Cruncher]

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED BRISTOL OR OXFORD ARE THE ONLY PLACES TO DO GROUNDSCHOOL

Have you been to both then? You must have been to LGU as well to be able to offer such comments.

I originally opted for Bristol DL, however, since realising that i could probably give up work and go full time, i am opting for LGU/London Met as they are a ten minute walf from my front door! I guess it all depends on personal circumstances.

If you are going the DL route, then based on the comments you read on Pprune, you can do little wrong by going to OAT/BGS, however, i feel that if you're willing to put in the effort and time wherever you go will not matter too much.

All the best.

[CIPO]

As number cruncher rightly points out I haven't been to both, HOWEVER having been through the groundschool and passed all the exams you get a real insight of what is needed to get through. You will discover which scools are better or better avoided by word of mouth.
On the subject of Guildhall, a mate who I met at Bristol didn't speak very highly of them(asking yourself yet why he had to go to bristol aswell!)
I have never heard anyone talking about any other groundschools in a good light apart from Oxford and bristol.
The quality of the feedback is more important than the teaching for most subjects. You just learn most of the stuff for the exams and never use it again.
Never heard of a line pilot needing to know what plane a gyro drifts in!!!

good luck:ok:

[IndiaTango]

Well, I'm doing residential ATPL studies at London Metropolitan and we're told the next course is full already and the current first time pass rates are in the 90%s, so they must be easily attracting people through word of mouth reputation - in my case my PPL instructor had studied here and I was impressed how thoroughly he knew his stuff - and I certainly have nothing but glowing things to say about the school thus far.

Be careful not to take what you read in ppruneworld as it seems. Clearly some random person who's had bother with their first attempts and is now at some other groundschool isn't going to be too positive an ambassador, and a lot of the profiling that certain other schools get on pprune is just related to the incidental participation of some of their staff and alumni on here.

I would hope there are fewer spelling mistakes in the materials at Oxford and Bristol but it should be fairly easy to inspect the notes provided on each course before making your choice, just ring them up and ask. For me what helps a lot is experienced and devoted lecturers who can bring subjects to life and shed light on the written material and practice/feedback questions. I also like to save money!

[Pilot16]

One of my previous thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=84195&highlight=London+Guildhall)s, this may help.

[Andy_R]

ATPL Theory

Can anyone give any indicators how London Metropolitan compare with the likes of Bristol and Oxford for their Groundschool?

I know that Bristol are renowned for their notes... has anyone been through their Theory at London Met and been disappointed?

What are the staff like?

I will more than likely be doing distance learning, though I haven't dismissed residential just yet!

Thanks in advance for any feedback

[orangesky]

i am nearing the end of my distance learning ATPL course with them, and have found them very good. their set up suited me better than any of the others, primarily because they only require a 2 week residential segment, whereas others require 4.

their notes are comprehensive (although not too many colour pictures, but that never bothered me), which tends to put some people off, because they only want to learn what is needed to pass the exams. however at the exam prep week they focus on what is more important for the exam, the feedback is excellent, and they have always promptly responded to any email/phone call enquiries that i had.

no matter how good or bad any notes are, it all boils down to how much comittment and effort YOU put in :hmm:

so from my experience, i have been more than happy with them.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Cloud69,

I finished the resendential course at LMU in July, and on the whole I was very satisfied and enjoyed my time there. I can not really compare the ground school to Oxford or Bristol, simply because I have not been there, however, I have heard Bristol is very good for distance learning and mixed reports about Oxford.

With respect to LMU, it is good value for money and it does the job. I think around 70% of the class I was in passed all 14 subjects first time with very good averages, with the others only having one or two retakes to do. On saying that everyone on the course did work particularly hard.

With respect to the instructors, on the whole generally good. There is a spread of experience throughout and they are approachable and willing to help you.

Whilst I was at the University the notes were in the process of being updated. The new notes are in hard book form and have been re-written with colour illustrations. I used mostly the old notes (the new notes were not available at this time). I must admit I did find myself buying supplement notes, for example a number of Jeppsen Oxford manuals, for some of the harder subjects. I found the diagrams in the OATS notes a lot clearer and easy to understand.

If you do decide on the resedential course think carefully about where you are going to live. LMU is just on the northern side of the Tower of London, therefere a bit of a pain to get to if you are commuting. I rented a flat and lived in the city (a 20 minute bike ride) and found it very convinient.

I have said this a number of times here, but you will get out of this course what you put in. Obviously you have to be comfortable at your place of study, but your attitude towards your work must be disiplined. I would suggest going to the Univeristy and having a look around, look at their notes and see what you think.

Good Luck.

[Andy_R]

Thanks for the replies CAT3 and Orange.


Any other feedback?

[Tha' what?]

I did the old UK technical residential course at Guildhall about 5 years ago. One word....Excellent!!

[pa28biggles]

Bluel0gic check you personnal messages

[DanBaxter]

Hi there,

I was on the same LMU course as CAT3C, and I can not complain about the tuition either. I think I have a somewhat unique perspective on things as I started Distance Learning, passing the exams I took first time, but decided that it was taking me too long. So I then joined on the Residential section. I have to admit that whilst I didn't like all the commuting into London, the Residential course suited me far better in a learning sense.

The notes are identical for both courses, and contain everything you need to pass the exams. They also contain a lot of handy/interesting information too. However, there is a fair amount of waffle too! The trouble is, if you do Distance Learning you don't know which sections to commit to memory, and which sections don't need this effort. Therefore it does take a lot longer to get through each subject.

Also, the practical subjects like General Nav and Flight Planning really are best when taught by a walking-talking experienced tutor! I cannot imagine having to learn these subjects by teaching myself, I'd get totally caught up in CRP-5 madness! As it happens, for these subjects I think LMU have got the best tutors around. The only way to crack these subjects is by actually doing questions, and to do it Distance Learning would take an incredible amount of self-discipline. After all, who in their right mind would CHOOSE to spend their time practicing 25 questions that in essence are the same, but just with re-jigged numbers?! Rest assured, the tutors will make you do enough questions you don't even have to think...it just comes as second nature.

At the end of the day, it's your decision. I can only recommend LMU as a good groundschool, and suggest that you talk to them about perhaps tailor-making a course to suit you. ie Technical subjects Distance Learning, Practical subjects Residential. Then just hope the CAA are ok with you doing that....!

Hope I've helped to shed some light on affairs, any other questions, just ask!!

Regards,
Daniel

[Chintito]

I've just finished with LMU and can like the others here recommend them throughly.
I dont know about the other schools but the instructors to me were genuinely interested in the students progress and they go out of their way to give time to students should they need help. there's a wide range of characters, some more colourful than others, something that i found made it all the more fun.

The course being split into 3 phases makes it that much more managable and i didnt find myself overwhelmed by the material. The size of the manuals can be intimidating at first and ,particularly with the technical sujbects, they do tend to teach more than is required for the exam but I didnt find that a hindrance as towards the end they do streamline the teaching with the focus more n passing the exams.

You'd be surprsed how much you retain once your all done. My CFI, having had experience of students from different groundschools, singled out this being the one thing he noticed with LMU students most so make what you will of that.

The new notes have been sized down from the old meaty ones and i spose the distance learners will benefit more from that as with the old notes it really was hard to filter out the bits you needed to know from the unnecessary bits and they didnt have enough pretty pictures for my liking.

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide.

[Andy_R]

Loads of thanks for all your very comprehensive replies.

I have made the decision to go full time at LMU as I think the distance learning would possibly allow me to be unintentionally distracted by being close to my business. So, time to finish training my office manager, to allow me to concentrate solely on my first real steep learning curve since schooldays!!!! :eek:

[canopy_gone]

LMU sound really good, I am considering the resedential course in 2004. Altough as I am travelling from O/S I am concerned about the COST OF LIVING in LONDON.

How did you guys find rent, living expenses, accomodation....in London, any thoughts?

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

canopy_gone,

Whilst I was there I lived in East London. I pretty much stuck to a budget of approximately £40 per week for food, however I often did not spend that amount, and my rent was about £380 per month. Therefore for the duration of my stay in London to live cost me around £3780. I had a bicycle for transportation, so no real transport costs, apart from the odd trip home to visit friends and family.

Good Luck.

[Oneday78]

Very helpful discussion people. I'm also thinking about going to LMU in conjunction with Stapleford Flying Centre (Romford way). I live Essex way so I could commute to LMU fairly easily. I have to admit that I was worried slightly as I thought the only way to learn to fly commercial was to go to one of the big FTO's (to get that dream job). This forum has taught me different. Realise it will be a hard long road, but only way I will be able to do it.
By the way does anyone have any experiences with Stpleford Flight Centre??.

[GusHoneybun]

as another ex guildhall chap, i can't recommend them highly enough. i started by doing distance learning with them and agree wholeheartedly with DanBaxter. the notes are quite long winded and if you don't have a tutor to guide you, it can be a bit daunting. that was why i chose to go full time and have never regretted the change. the tutors are, well lets say unique, but all very experienced and knowledgable on their particular subject. i always felt that the subjects are taught to be understood, not to just pass the exam. as a result i feel confident when i'm now teaching the ppl groundschool that i do know what i'm talking about (although some students will disagree).

as for living in london, if your happy to not live in the centre (leyton, wood green, tottenham) then rent is not too different from anywhere else in the south and i would recommend cycling as it will save money and hassle in the mornings.

good luck where ever you choose to study.

[figair]

hi fox
to be honest i do not know if you actually know what you saying about London Met.
I personally think that 50 % of the instructors have got not idea of what they are doing.
Here the bad ones:
Gen Nav-Perf ---> he is good in nav but no idea on performance in fact OAT has build up a business out of LMU student failing performance. Enjoy coffee and fags.
Powerplant and sometimes POF----> full of nonsense, likes to show off and performe as if he has been the Chief pilot of BA. It is obvious he's not a University graduate engineer judging by his luck of manner and terminology which comes probably from the suburb of London.
Electrics - OPS and sometimes POF real good one but unfortunately the coloured one is making to much cash out of LMU student struggling with POF. Fees are 50.00 for a group brush up course and 30.00 for one hr one to one.
Radio nav-- Air law--Met---> the chap however teaching for quite a long time still has got no idea why he is doing that job. Knowledge of those subjects is a mistery to him but, for him the recurrent word is "all right?"
Comms - Flight planning---> ex london met student who had to retake most of the subjects twice. Think??????
HERE THE REAL GOOD:
INSTRUMENT - MASS AND BALANCE: HE IS A REAL ASSET, EXCELLENT EXPERIENCE, FLEXIBLE AND HELPFUL. ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT STUDENT QUERIES.

So finally i would kindly suggest you to have a look around. Indeed they are cheaper than others but you may end up spending more on notes and individual tuition.
Have a good look at Bristol university as far as i know they are currently the best on distance learning.
Good luck

[Number Cruncher]

Wow Figair.

Thanks for that. I guess we should all call for the CAA to shut this pace down.

Here is another bit of terminology coming from the suburb of London:

You DOUGHNUT! Not the jam ones either!

I would rather pay a sub fee on this website rather than listen to Useless non constructive posts like that of Figair.

Well, i shall not be basing my choice of groundschool on the strength of your comments.

[figair]

Hi NUMBEWR CRUNCHER
I reckon you too then belong to the group, do you?
Have I just hurt you. Sorry it was not in my intention.
But if you are not, open your eyes.
I reckon i would greatly appreciate to pay a fee too to read something more realistic and have a proper point of view instead of an affiliated one.

[IndiaTango]

Clearly all of the above views are from people with experience of LMU, none are more or less valid than others! LMU is not perfect, neither is anywhere else I should think but at least it's cheap, convenient and good fun. One thing is for sure, there are always whingers at every school.

[johnnypick]

I think Figair is just being honest, a bit blunt, but honest. As an ex LMU student, I think most of his decriptions are fairly accurate, but as I said, a bit blunt. Some of the tutors are ex RAF types, and see students as raw recruits instead of customers. Some of the others are little better, one or two are pretty good.

Number Cruncher- You can pay a sub fee and not get any negative comments about any of the ground schools, but pprune would just become a mutual appreciation society. Negative comments also have a place on this web site, well at least I hope they do!

Anyone going to LMU be prepared to beg/borrow/steal notes from Bristol/Oxford. Or am I just whinging!!

[canopy_gone]

Figair sounds like you are having a personal dig at the instructors, rather than providing justified constructive input.

There are always going to be whinging disgruntled students ( I can just picture them now).

Keep in mind at the end of the day, what really matters is RESULTS, and from the comments LMU are doing reasonably well.

[T-key]

I completed recently no thanks to LMU and Bristol. I have been reading many threads and can not believe how biased you all are. Are you really students or stooges for Bristol/LMU! I have to agree with figair
I started distance learning with LMU and found their notes poor and the telephone service unreliable. After failing several exams I read these threads and went to Bristol – what a mistake. Again they were not always able to answer my problems “our expert is not here today I’ll get him to call you back”. They did not seem interested in me as a brush-up student and their attitude was “read the books first and then ask us”, not to trouble them with trivia!
Understandably I then went to Oxford. Fantastic. Nothing was too much trouble and they always had an expert on site, and immediately available. Their notes are superb and their feedback vital (having seen both LMU and Bristols feedback I now know where LMU & Bristol got theirs from). I had problems with Gen Nav and Perf, and Bristols feedback confused me. I showed it to Oxford who said “put it in the bin – I defy anybody to pass using those answers!” A bit excessive, but I took the point. All the Oxford instructors have flown professionally (engineers excepted) and really know what they are teaching as well as the practical implications of the course. Many of their “hints and tips from flight experience” are what got me through, as well as acurate feedback.
Why does everyone knock Oxford. Yes, they are expensive, but having done the rounds I’d have saved money by going to them first. I agree that if you are competent it does not matter where you go, but if you are not a natural academic (like me) then there is only one place to go – Oxford. Whilst I was there they were having trouble with their very expensive integrated course (a very silly decision I think), but as soon as the management realise how good their Modular department is, and put some resources into it, then the other schools had better watch out. I was amazed at how a team of 4 could look after so many students so efficiently!
Oxford you did me proud, I would not have passed without your help. I can not thank you enough.
Now to complete the flying – of course it will be with Oxford.

[figair]

Hi T-key and Johnnypick
first I'd like to thank you both for your honesty on giving your experience.
Seems to me that canopy_gone does not get the point or is trying to justify LMU instructors uncapability or whatever you want to define it.
I personally found the LMU note uselesse and often misleading. I can actually confirm that most of their students use the OAT but what is better is that i personally saw The LMU instructors preparing their lectures from the OAT notes. It is known to everyone that the whole feedback's come from Oxford but unfortunately someone at LMU had the brilliant idea to wrongly correct the answers with what they thought to be the correct one.
I have to agree with T-key about oxford instructors, i went there my self and found a huge continous support from every instructor, they are great, know what they are doing and accomplishing a great mission.
Should i had to start the ATPL ground training i would not hesitate one sec but choose Oxford Aviation Training even though are apparently more expensive at the end you may spend the same amount of money or even worse you could end up giving up you dream.
Someone mentioned averages of passing at LMU but nobody has so far given real figures including also the number of student who give up at LMU.
What i actually also found scandalous instructors on their first day introduction mentioning fees for ONE TO ONE tuition. Aren't they already well paid?
Best of luck to whoever is about to choose a ATPL ground school.

[ILS Capture]

canopy_gone,

I could not agree with your comments more. Whilst I was doing my ATPL's these types of comments came from students who were lazy and not at all motivated, and all they wanted to do was be spoon fed to pass the exams.

Fig and T-Key, it looks as if you are in a small minority, as LMU and Bristol most certainly do the job, they are not perfect but they get people through.

Might be an idea to channel your negative attitude into something positive to pass your CPL and IR skill tests.

[johnnypick]

ILS Capture -Obviously you're someone who only wants to hear good things about ground schools. Just because Figair and T-key have made some negative comments about the LMU does'nt mean they have a negative attitude, if anyone has a negative comment, they should be able to air their views, if no one can say anything negative, what's the point of asking the question in the first place. I personally believe most of their comments to be accurate, most of the people who were on my course would probably agree and most of us were motivated, did'nt need the exams spoon fed and were'nt lazy. Also, figairs comment about the instructors preparing lectures with oxford notes, is true having seen this myself, almost the feedback was from oxford aswell. The only reason I went there was because it was cheap and I lived on central line. As I said in my last post-be prepared to beg/borrow/steal Bristol/Oxford notes.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Fig Air,

Thanks for the PM, please respond to you one I have sent you :ok:.

[spitfire747]

HI all

I went to LGU. passed all 14, as did ALL of my class within 8 months.. so no complaints

All teachers are friendly, approachable, helpful and all will go out of their way to help you. their notes were in the process of being re-written completely when i was there and alot of work went into this.

what they teach is everything you need, not just what you need to pass the exams.. which is a bonus anywhere.

if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me

Spitty
:\

[glider12000]

I`m currently at Leeds University on the new Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies course, and although you only get a PPL, you also get a very good degree which can be used in many parts of the aviation industry.

So far i`m really enjoying it. I`m just coming to the ed of the first semester and the work load is high compared to other Leeds courses, but next year we get 40 credits just for spending two weeks over the summer flying!!

If anyone is interested about the course and it content feel free to get in contact and i`ll try and help.

We get a bursary towards the cost of the PPL and get it for the great price of under 3000pounds! Groundschool counts both towards the degree and the PPL so it is well thought out. For all those people not interested in piloting, there is a management course running in parallel.

A word of warning though, there are 100 places per yer and last year was 470 applications! So make sure you have good A-level (or equivilant) grades!

I have two B`s in Travel and Tourism, D in German at A-levels, and have AS-Levels in Critical thinking, physics, PE and Sport and computing!

Have so far completed exams in Communications, Human Factors but have failed air law due to having flu at the same time as the exam! But second time lucky i hope!

Any way i hope this helps out some people! and feel free to get in touch.

Steve

[SpeedBird 001]

Steve,

I too am @ Leeds but I'm on the mgmt side of things coz I already got my PPL. I wouldn't worry about the airlaw side of things, that is the most difficult by far. Just no logical ways to work out the answers!!!! Hope the resit went well - if not good luck for Monday. Just you wait till the ATPL's come along. I've got mine in January with Bristol and there study notes are pretty involved. I'm doing my night rating next week and getting a few more hours logged out of Leeds Bradford. Let me know if I can help. Just not if it's about MET, that's probaly my weakest subject at the moment. I'm working on it but there is loads to take in.

oh yeah - and for everyone with the feedback about ground schools. Surely everyone is different!! One ground school might be great for one persons learning style ect. My 2pence worth is to visit the ground school and flick through there notes even sit in on a brush up (if they let you) and decide which one is right for YOU. Take advice with a pinch of salt and witness the rumours first hand. That way there is only one person to blame if it all hits the fan.

Chow for now

SpeedBird 001 - The speediest bird there is/was :ok: :ok:

[IndiaTango]

Not sure what Leeds Uni has to do with London Met Uni but anyway, if anyone wishes to compare like-with-like exam results between schools for first-attempts, only 2 LMU students passed all 3 'phase A' exams in the Nov 2003 sitting - PoF, Perf, and AGK - everyone else all failed AGK, funny old thing.

There is some discussion above about instructors - LMU staff includes ex-CAA, ex-Oxford, ex-Cabair, ex-WMU, and others. Probably a similar mix at other schools - and I am sure they all know each other. They're more similiar and interlinked than most people realise. It's a vast conspiracy!!!

[scroggs]

I'm very happy to see comment, both good and bad, about schools you have experienced. It might help if you could state roughly when you attended the school you are talking about - we've had a few cases of people roundly trashing a school only to find that their attendance was 5 or 6 years ago, and so not very useful to those who are looking at going now!

Things change rapidly in this business. As IT says, there is a lot of cross-fertilisation between schools. You could well find that the instructor at LMU, say, who is in the habit of using OAT's notes helped write them in the first place! All of the major schools are developing their product daily, and I'm sure each nicks ideas off the others from time to time. The flight training business is actually very small; everyone knows everyone else and no-one can hang on to an advantage for long.

Another thing I would ask is that, if you have criticisms to make of a school, please state them from your own experience only - I don't want any posts of the 'my mate went to XYZ school and he says it was crap' kind. They don't help anyone, and have no credibility.

Scroggs

[spitfire747]

Scroggs

I was at LMU ( Or LGU ) from September 2002 to May 2003

14 exams passed and a great time, good bunch of guys :ok:

[Ren Höek]

Hi,
I´m thinking about doing my ATPL theory in London..but I´m living in Germany and I don´t have time to go there to check it out.
Could you write me your experiences and tips about the course?
Thanks
:ok:

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Ren,

Might be worth doing a search on this one, it has been discussed on numerous occasions.

I attended LMU last year, and enjoyed my time there. It will do the job as long as you put the work in.

Good luck.

[mastermark]

I am there at the moment....the amount of info, incomming is large,
but if you do the 2-3 hours anight homework INCLUDING week ends, you should be able to cope...( I have been told)

Personally I am doing 3hours just to keep up !!!
Mark XX

[NineEighteen]

As the others have said, the most important thing is to put a great deal of work into the course. I was doing around 3 to 4 hours a night....plus about the same 'on and off' study at the weekends.

A major point to ask about and to consider is the number of students per class. It's my understanding that LMU classes are bigger than most other FTO's.

Unfortunately, if the group is quite large, it's possible to get a few people that ask far too many questions. Understandable to a degree because they are, of course, interested in the subjects. If you're unlucky enough to get a few of these students in your group (Because of the volume of work to get through) it can slow the process down and get very annoying.

On the other hand, if you're lucky enough to be grouped with people that ask intelligent and constructive questions...it's a great bonus. :ok:

Just so you're aware...Good luck!

[tom24]

So, NineEighteen, you were doing 6 hours per day in the class, 4 hours per night and 8 hours over the weekend - 58 hours per week? Am i really not going to have a life when i start the groundschool???

[NineEighteen]

Am i really not going to have a life when i start the groundschool???Nope...and realising that fact is the key to success.

Good luck!

[Baron buzz]

I finished my groundschool at London early this year. The truth is, im not totally convinced that where you go is too important. What is more important is that you are totally comitted and willing to put in serious hard work. Nothing throughout the course is terribly difficult to understand, but there is simply a hell of a lot of it!

I was doing between 2-3 hours per night and spending virtually all day saturday and sunday working too. My hard work paid off though, passing all but one first time with good solid grades. This was the case for the whole of my group, which incidentally had about 11 of us. There was one group though that was starting when I left that had about 25, but from what I saw that was rare.

As regards the lecturers, they are ALL excellent and its never a problem asking for extra help. They come from a variety of backgrounds and bring a host of experience to help you.

[Ren Höek]

Thanks for all your replies,
so I hope theres no major problem with that course.Except for having to learn all day. But I like learning all day :8 .
NO ,I like to learn DAY and NIGHT :}

Do think you have to learn more at lmu than in the other FTOs?

[GusHoneybun]

Do think you have to learn more at lmu than in the other FTOs?

I first thought, easy question, and that the answer is obviously no. We all sit the same exams irrelevent of where we did the ground school. Then I pondered...... and pondered a bit more.

Comparing LGU and another school like say Oxford, you do find there is a difference in approach and more to the point content. Oxford or Bristol's notes are clear, precise with a diagram or two to aid understanding. A bit Janet and John if you please.

LGU are wordy. Tombs of knowledge. All the information required is contained but also the background and derivation aswell. The trick is to distill the required reading from the superflueous. As a result, your actual understanding of the subject matter has to be broader and more complete. This is solely due to the fact that you must read and understand everything contained in the reading material to have an idea what is pertinent and what is chaff.

So, to answer you question, I believe you do need to learn more at LGU. Not for sitting the exams, but to be able to decipher the notes.


No prizes for guessing where I did my groundschool.

[Fanois]

Sorry to hijack your thread, Ren:

May seem a pointless question (given that if you really want it you'll put the work in ragardless), but i'm at a good uni at the mo studying aero engineering which is, um, hard enough.

Can anyone give me an idea of how intense a course the atpl is in relation to such a subject? Maybe from personal experience. And also, at LMU are you thrown in with 1st degree students at the uni (in terms of accommodation if you need it) that may be keen to p*ss their 1st year's up the wall? Not good to be distracted when it's your money and not the tax paying public's that's moistening the bricks and mortar...

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Fanois,

This question has been asked a few times here before, and attracts various different arguments, however I can give you my opinion for what its worth :D.

Like yourself I studied Aero Eng, and finished back in 1997. The bottom line for me in making the comparison, is, it is simply different.

I too found the Beng Aero course hard and demanding. However, even though there were approximately 10 exams a year to pass, you also had the pressure of an excessive amount of course work to complete each term. I found this particularly hard to manage and found the whole process quite stressful.

With respect to the ATPL course, again it is demanding in the respect of the volume of information you are required to digest, however for me, it was a question of being able to manage your time constructively. Like most people here that give an estimation of the required amount of wotk you need to do for the ATPL's, it will take over you life for a good 6 months if you choose to do it full time. But that 6 months will fly by believe me.

On starting the ATPL course, I must admit I found it very useful having completed the degree course in Aero, due to the fact alot of the stuff I had seen before, for example, principles of flight, jet and piston engines, avionics, flight mechanics etc. However, at the same time I found my self learning alot too. Occasionally I found myself thinking 'oh that's what Mr X was on about at uni, never understood it until now'.

So, in a nutshell, like you said in your post, if you are willing to put the work in regardless you will reap the benefits and get a good set of results.

Good luck.

[wbryce]

Just looking around for a residential atpl theory course....

the metropolitan course looks value for the cost. There website says

"The residential course is formally structured and you will attend lectures from 9:00am to 5:00pm, Monday to Friday throughout the 25 week course. The course is split into 3 phases of approximately equal duration and examinations are scheduled after each phase."

Is this class room layout, or university lecture style layout?

What are they like? do they have good pass rates?

Any other good theoritcal courses apart from the obvious expensive ones, please note, i have no intreast in doing a distance learning course. I get easily distracted :}

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Wbryce,

Can't comment about London Uni for groundschool with the exception that my PPL instructor thought they were pretty good when he did his ATPL Technicals with them (whilst he was an instructor back in the good CAA days).

Although Naples Air Center are relatively new on the block in terms of ground school, they seem to be doing pretty well and very reasonable in terms of cost. They also do residential school as well as distance learning.

This is why I've just enrolled for the distance learning version of Moduel 1 with NAC Ground school. I was torn between Bristol and NAC for a while but I finally(!) opted for the latter in the end. I should have my notes in a week or so but have already seen some of them when I was at NAC last July.

Just try not to get easily distracted in the evenings after class when you've got to do another three or four hours of self study.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[spitfire747]

wbryce

i did my atpls last year at london met and finished all 14 in 8 months with a couple of resits.

the classes are set out just as described and it is a classroom layout not a uni style lecture.. although a lot is listening and note taking there is a fair amount of interaction.

cannot comment on any other schools, i am here in naples at the moment and know that the recent results were excellent..

i would say though, prior to starting the atpls, make sure you have a good understanding of the PPL theory from the trevor thom books or similar.. it will make your life easier.. and on a nother note..be prepared to give your life up for 6 - 8 months.. you will study all day and then all night aswell !

regards
Spitty

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Spitty,

Good to hear about the excellent results that Naples Ground School students have obtained, having just enrolled! :D

Thanks for the tip. Hoping not to sound a bit arrogant I believe I have a pretty good understanding of the PPL Theory and a little more besides as I completed an FAA CPL/IR last summer with NAC. BUT I'm worrying about the level of mathematics and Physics so have, over the weekend been reading through my old GCSE Maths books that I still have from eleven to twelve years ago.

If you're flying NACs Seminole, please don't bend it as I'm flying it at the end of June...

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

CZ,

Dont worry too much about the level of Maths and Physics, it is not too bad. Make sure you have a look at things like vectors, transposition of formula, electromagnetic induction, basic magnetism, basic trig, pythagorous, conversions, such as pounds to litres, pounds to US gallons/imperial gallons etc and speed distance time calculations.

Wbryce, I too went to LMU, and Spitty has given you some good info. Like Spitty, I too did the full time residential course, and it did the job.

Spitty, how is the sun tan coming on? Got you mail thanks mate, started flying again yesterday. I do hope the Cb's have passed and you are back up in the skies.

Good luck all.

[mastermark]

Currently I am on the part A bit of the course and so far cant complain about anything at LGU at all the lectures are straight forward enough and plenty of understanding is shown by the lecturers to old ******s like me......

The home work later( rewiteing of notes etc is a chore but has to be done normally about 3 hours a night....

The only complain I have is they have just put up the price of coffee in the refrectory to 80p ( bloody criminal).....dont they know I am a poor student!!!!!!



Mark XXXX:O

[flyingdogguitar]

Hi,
Anyone done D/L with London Met as opposed to Bristol etc??


Regards

Flyingdogguitar

[GusHoneybun]

FDG,

Started doing the DL with London Guildhall (later to morph into London Met). The notes are very comprehensive, and some would probably say (quite rightly) wordy. The level the notes are pitched to is more in line with a degree course, rather than a professional one. All the information you need is in the notes, but you have to read all the background and superfluous info to get to the nuts and bolts. Great if you have a spare 6 months and no other distractions as if you could understand ever page of the Guildhall notes, not only would you breeze the exams, you should also be able get a job teaching the ATPL's as well.
As a result of this, I could not get into studying the notes by DL and went full time. And what a difference it made. With a full time lecturer to highlight the important parts and also provide an explanation to the background info as well, this helped me no end, I even found the course enjoyable!!! Most of the lecturers there are knowledgable and keep the lessons moving at a good pace (and some not so good). The learning environment is much more like school with rows of desk and whiteboard waffle, however as I spent most of my yoof learning that way found the style quite familiar.

Anyway, my advice. If you have to do DL, go through Bristol as their notes are concise and well written, have a good multimedia suite. Their admin and teaching staff are incrediably helpful (and knowledgable which helps) even to people from other schools. London Met need to cut down on the waffle to become a serious player in the DL market

[menikos]

Hello,

any feedback about the london met and their full time ATPL.

Many thanks.

Regards.

[Airkef]

Yes, I'm also good for any feedbacks!

I expect an end year 2004 session with LMU.
I'll be on London the 25th june visiting the facilities...I'll keep you guys in touch.

see ya

[flyingdogguitar]

Hi,
Thanks for the balanced view of the establishment, looking more and more like it's going to be Bristol.

Many thanks

Dave

[Pilot16]

I am booked for the ATPL Residential course starting at the end of August at London Metropolitan. I am doing the ATPL course by taking a gap year.

I was wondering, given the workload of the ATPL course, will it be possible for me to complete an A-Level Maths side by side with the ATPLs. This involves attening lessons twice a week, 3 hours each lesson (in the evening).

I dont want to fail any of the ATPL subjects but I need to do the maths A-Level to get into an electronic engineering degree the year after.

I know people who have managed to keep a partime job doing residential ATPL. I personally dont want to end up failing in anything by putting too much pressure on myself! Im looking for some guidance from people who have completed a residential ATPL course at London Metropolitan and knows first hand what the work load is like. Please advise me whether this is a sensible decision for me to make.

Thank you.

[NineEighteen]

I would not recommend it Pilot16. I did the residential ATPL's at LMU and it took up most of my time for 6 or 7 months. Lessons are from Monday to Friday 0900 to 1600 if I recall; and I had to do at least 3 hours a night just to keep up with the workload, sometimes more. Plenty of the weekend is also eaten up by studies.

I've had the pleasure of doing a Pure and Applied Maths A-Level (in the past) so I know how much time that takes too.

Sorry but if you're residential, the ATPL's will consume your life for the duration.

Good luck!
0918

[Pilot16]

Thanks for that :ok:
Now Ill be rethinking my decisions...

anyone else have any comments?

The problem is, I really must have maths A-Level, otherwise none of the universities will accept me onto an engineering degree course. Im very inclined into technical areas (also explains why i want to fly for a living)...however I made a small mistake in not choosing maths for A-Level. Im not interested in other type of degree. I have researched other degrees such as aviation management etc. But those seem to do little in the way of being a pilot and providing a back-up to fall back on...

If I do opt for doing the maths A-Level with the ATPL course, surely with a lot of commitment I can succeed in passing all 14 ATPLs first time and also get a good grade for the A-Level. The maths and ATPL course should also compliment each other I would immagine?

I live very close to LMU, only a small cycling distance away...living with parents too... So basically I dont have much else to be stressed about unlike a lot of other ATPL buddies that would be on my course...

any other views much appreciated.

[NineEighteen]

The maths and ATPL course should also compliment each other I would immagine? Not really I'm afraid. If you ask anyone that has done the ATPL's; I think most would agree that the difficulty comes, not from the complexity of the subjects, but from the sheer volume of information to cram into your head.

If you're a youngster, it may be that you are at an advantage because your brain is in gear for studying, however, I still would not recommend it. The ATPL course is quite overwhelming.

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best.

Regards
0918

[PFD]

I was wondering, given the workload of the ATPL course, will it be possible for me to complete an A-Level Maths side by side with the ATPLs

Hi

I have only met 2 people who I think might manage that epic task, and that would only be by putting much less effort into getting good 1st time JAR passes.

It sounds like you have plenty of drive so I would suggest ATPL's first then do your Maths A-Level if you wish. Once you've dealt with the JAR exam workload, you'll eat the A-Level alive, and I'm not denegrating anyone with A-Levels.

What ever you do, good luck.

[Pilot16]

Hi

Thanks very much guys for your replies. PFD, what you have suggested means that I will take two years before I start the degree which I dont like, tho thanks for the suggestion. :)

The university of my choice has accepted AS-Level Maths so long as I manage a grade B in it which I think Im capable of. This is half an A-Level hence half the workload which I know with my zeal I can manage AND succeed in with all 14 ATPL exams first time passes.

Im thinking I will go for the AS-Level and not the full A-Level, this will make it easier to cope with the ATPL

I know I will have to work flat out 24/7, and Im prepared to do that, being a professional pilot is my long held dream and I believe I have the zeal, commitment to make it happen.

I just wanted to know if Im putting my self into a no-win situation. It seems from the response that it is POSSIBLE tho not recommended what Im doing. Given my circumstances I think I will do the AS-Level maths course as well with the ATPLs.

If anyone thinks Im making a tremendous mistake, please advise me not to do this before its too late for me.

Thanks for the replies 9-18 and PFD :ok:

P16

[RoosterBooster]

Peeps,

Anyone doing the correspondance course with London Met? How are you finding it etc. Do you rate the class room 3 weeks bit?

I've actually started the course and have found the material to be relatively long winded. As I also work full time, I was wondering if I should chop the 3 week session to 2 weeks.

Cheers

The Rooster

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Rooster,

I did not do the distance leanring course at LMU, I was a full time student, however, for what it is worth I would stick with the way the course is structured. You can get an awful lot done in one week, and it would be valuable exam preparation time.

[Biscuit]

RoosterBooster,

I did the full time course at Lon Met too so can't advise on the distance learning brush-up weeks. However, if you're in full time work and you really don't want to take 3 weeks off, I'd try and manage it so the weeks that you go in for cover subjects like Gen/Radio Nav, Instruments, A/C Gen etc that you may have many questions about. Subjects like Law, Comms, Ops can easily be studied at home. So I guess if things are tricky regarding time off from work, then missing these lectures would cause the least damage.

Regards,

B

[RoosterBooster]

Nice one guys for the advice. You know how is goes time is money and all that.

There must be some dude's out there who have/are doing the correspondance course.

I could be just me!!!

Cheers

The Rooster

[orangesky]

hi

was in a similar situation to yourself for the whole of last year - i know how difficult it is to have a full time job, have to study eves and w/ends and still try not end up a hermit !

the guys there are quite understanding with DL students when it comes to residential weeks, make sure you do well with the prog tests and when going to college know what you want to get out of each session for the various subjects. some like law, ops, rad nav etc are feedback type subjects, the others like gen nav, perf, planning, a/c gen are really useful to have a day with the lecturers, esp if there are only a small group of you - remember, its your day at the college.

good luck

[ORBITAL]

I did distance learning but it was a couple of years ago and the structure has changed a bit since then.
We did 2 blocks with a brush up week at the end of each block.

I found the brush up weeks very helpful and would say do them if you can,you will get a lot of feedback questions and advice on technique.
If you cannot make all of them try to make the tricker ones Systems,POF,Performance,Gen Nav,Met,Flight Planning,Instruments.

Good luck.

[RoosterBooster]

Much appreciated. I'm doing the firrst lot, POF, Perf and AGK, systems etc. POF seems endless although its only a 1 paper.

It makes me think how many people actually use this info whilst on the job and actaully remember it after the exams. I understand you need a lot of it but other parts, I really don't know. Still, I guess its got tobe done...

Thanks again guys.

The Rooster

[Master Yoda]

foundation degree: aviation management and operations.
its basically a modular course over 2 years with business studies.

atpl and ppl ground school paid for by local authority. then £5k per year student loan for 2 years.

PPL 45 hrs (min)
then 180 hrs hr building on ppl?
then 25 hrs on cpl?
then skill test.
= 250 hrs?
am i right?

but they seem to say that 180 hrs TT for whole course.
how much if u did this in the uk? (all in)

is this a worthwhile route with airline approved recognition or just another 'mickey mouse' course?
:confused:

[MEA321]

I am looking for information regarding the residential ATPL theory course at London Metropolitan University as compared to other organisations across the UK.

Specifically, I want to know if it really makes a difference where the course is taken, or if all the organisations give an equally good education. Moneywise, London Metro has one of the cheapest offerings.

What are the facilities like? How much does it cost to live in London for a period of six to seven months? Where in London is the campus located, and near which general aviation airports?

[carb]

Facilities are good though there are all the distractions of city life. Cost of living for me was £500/month including rent, bills and travelcard. The aviation groundschool is opposite the Tower of London at Tower Hill tube station, the main library and student union are a short walk to the north at Aldgate East tube station, which is all within walking distance of London Bridge and Liverpool St train stations... the nearest GA airfields depending in which quadrant of London you stay might be Stapleford, Elstree, Biggin Hill, Redhill, Southend, North Weald, etc.

[spitfire747]

i did my ATPLs at London Met and passed all 14 within 8 months of starting. The staff are all excellent in their knowledge and delivery of the subjects, some are tedious and boring but lessons are made to feel somewhat appealing.

the quality of the notes improved as i was doing my exams and are on par now with all the other schools. The pass rate is well above the average and if the goal of the school is for all students to achieve ATPL passes then they suceed.

Being in central london does mean expensive living and travel and lots of distractions (i and the 20 others in the class remember leaning out the top windows looking at the lovely female specimens walking along the street.. :cool: :cool: ), then there is the local pubs for a well deserved friday afternoon beer..

it is one of te cheapest, go along and see what you think, listen to a class talk to some current students

Enjoy it

Spitty

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Agree with Spit here. I even had the pleasure of meeting the merlin powered man at London Met :D.

It may be worth doing a search on this one, it has been discussed a few times on PPRUNE.

[MEA321]

The cost of the course is very cheap compared to other academies across Europe. Does this give any clue to the quality of notes or facilities at LondonMet?

I have no doubt that staff is experienced and knowledgable, which is a big plus. However quality of facility and notes is also important.

Just a few quick questions:

Does LondonMet require the students to use their ATPL notes?

Who is the publisher of the ATPL notes used at LondonMet? Are they reputable?

The advertised cost of the course is £2450. Is this price correct? Are there any additional hidden costs (besides housing in London) that prospective students should know about?

What is the daily schedule of the students in the ATPL course?
- How many hours per day? Which days of the week?

[Biscuit]

MEA321,

There are no hidden costs that I can remember. I believe the course is cheaper because it is partly subsidised. It's a large university in central London. The facilities available are the same for all students attending the Uni, including atpl students. The notes are OK, nothing amazing. The Feedback was good and up-to-date in most subjects.

It's a significantly better place to study and be taught than a portacabin on an airfield I would say.

Most people on my course did OK. Lon Met are not motivated by profit as it's a University, not a flying school. They are proud of their results generally I think.

London is of course is an expensive city, so whereas you save on the course fees you'll probably spend more on socialising and accom etc...

Good Luck!

Biscuit

[spitfire747]

you are provided with a set of fairly decent notes, whether you use them or another schools is of no interest, some other schools notes explain things in different ways which sometimes makes it easier to understand

[AIRLEBANON]

Dear MEA321

How are you doing and How is Lebanon doing whats the weather Like down there I have not been to Lebanon for almost 2 years now its making me sad But Money is Tight for me at the moment.

With regards to London Met University, They are really good I have friends that go there althought not specifically for the Pilot Courses Never the less they are pretty good, London Met was established only 2 years ago as a merger between the University of East London and Another University, a Lot of money has gone into thier London Holloway Campus London Hollow way is pretty expensive to be honest anywhere near University in London is Pretty expensive I know this Because I have been in London for well over 9 Years and I know, I have lived in Bristol to do my JAR 66 Aircraft Maintenance Engineering lisence but it fell through for me, then I have been to norwich for the same reason again it did not go well for me.
I am still considering wether I want to stay Living with my parents through any Pilot course I do or do I want to live away, I guess The answear is the second one, With London Met they have a Foundation and Full degree in Aviation management which includes all the Modules you need for your ATPL again that is always an option for you if you want a degree with your ATPL, I am considering wether or not to do the degree route or Just Do my ATPL Modules.
Either way London is recomended but please make sure to budget for at least 160 British Pounds per week to have any chance of Enjoying life in London and most of all to survive as Accomodation in central London is a Killer but if you go to places on the outer Layer of London like Leyton, Ealing acton then you might get away with a 60 to 80 per weeks just on rent, I am looking at considering Bristol Ground School or Cabair in Bournmouth they offer a residential Course for like 2 Thousend and I believe accomodation in that area is pretty cheap and as For transport if you do come over and We end up going to the same place I dont mind giving you a lift, as for me currently I am working like a slave to pay off some bank depts and also to save money as I am doing my PPL in April sometime which I am looking forward to, so That come september or June I can start my ATPL course and hopefully after that who knows wether or not MEA would Hire a Dual Lebanese Bristish who speaks 4 languages.
I was considering Air Ivoire from the Ivory Coast as I was Born there but with all the troubles at the moment that is a Big No No.
You know that the Lebanese and Syrian Goverments have signed a deal in which to create a Low cost Airline that Flies between Beirut international to Damascus using 50 to 70 seater Turbo props and My sources tell me MenaJet will finally get its act Together and creat even more chances of employment for the Lebanese Pilots of the Future so wich Ever choice you make please get in touch as I dont mind Helping you out if you need any help with paper work or Settling in well best of Luck my Fello Lebanese.

Kind regards
AirLebanon

[helicopter-redeye]

I think the LMU course is the same (give or take a few ££) price as the GTS course in Bournmouth, and I believe their is now another Bournthmouth based operation as well. The CoL would be lower there and both based at an airfield!

GTS is www.gtserv.co.uk and the other is bournmouth college of air training (I think).

There is also a new operation (Pilot Ground Training) at Kemble (another airfield).

May give some other options at same course but lower living cost.

h-r

[tinmouse]

Hi

Has anyone attended the London Metropolitan University course for the Full time ground ATPL course? Would love to here any opinions on them and how the course is delivered by the instructors.

Thanks
Tinmouse.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Tinmouse, use the search function on this one mate, it has been discussed on numerous occasions.

Cheers.

[tinmouse]

Thanks CAT3C AUTOLAND,

I've read some of the previous posts from last year. However I believe they have changed there notes, and I'm wondering if there has been any instructor turnover?

Would love to here from anyone that is presently doing the course there now?

Thanks again.

Tinmouse.

[tinmouse]

Hay all, me again!

I would like to ask if anyone has completed the full time JAA ATPL ground school in London Metropolitan University. Can you tell me if it’s a good course? Any inside info would be useful from someone that has been there, pass rates, time to completion etc! I’m checking out the possibility of going there as I’ve been offered free accommodation nearby! I’m a bit concerned about them as they don’t specialize, any advice would be great!

Thanks in advance. Again!
Tinmouse.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Have a look at this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=108505) , there are also more threads if you do a search.

Enjoy your ATPL's.

[tinmouse]

Hi,

I've received an application form from LMU for ATPL ground school. Included is the entry exam. Has anyone any experience with getting less than the pass mark (85%) on the exam. Do you get your deposit back if you get 75%? What happens if you fall the entry exam? It seems odd that they give you an exam paper to do which includes ATPL content, I mean you going there to study FOR the ATPL? Any help from someone that has done it would be great.


Also, It seems odd that you have to pay for the whole course up front, can you insist on paying per term?

Thanks in advance.

Tinmouse.

[moggiee]

Spelling may be part of the ENTRANCE exam!

[Andy_R]

The idea of the entrance exam is to test your basic knowledge of maths and physics. Clearly some of the questions are with aviation content. It is not that difficult. After 20 years out of the education system I got 87%, with the wrong answers identified.

Though you send a deposit with your entrance paper answer sheet, they do not cash the cheque until you have passed the exam.

I believe it is the norm to pay up front for most residential courses.

When are you thinking of starting?

[tinmouse]

Should be starting May 23rd.
Have you been?

[VC10L1011]

Hi,

I'm currently at Met, just about to take my phase B exams and I can not recomend the place enough.. excellent tuition allowed me to pass my phase A exams first time with no probs at all..

Best of luck when you start

Will

[Andy_R]

Should be starting May 23rd.
Have you been?

Was starting same time. Suffered a major medical setback this last month, so it looks like I will be postponing until September now :{

[pimpmyglide]

Oh my god don't believe these guys! It's probably Crappy Knappy! This place has a few good tutors but some dog awful ones too! Especially for Gen Nav and Performance, I went to Bournemouth for a revision course and the difference in results showed what a mistake this place was! The books and questions they hand out are full of errors! This was also the case for several people on my course! Like I said though, cpl of good younger tutors holding the place up!

[tinmouse]

Pimpmyglide,

Can you elaborate on what you just said? Did you attend the LMU ATPL full time ground school, and then went to Bournemouth for a revision course? When did you attend LMU and what did you think. Would appreciate any info as I may be going very soon.

Thanks
Tinmouse.

[What's a Girdler]

I considered LMU too, but then I realised that it was v. expensive compared to a certain commercial flight school in Bournemouth, and also the fact that they required an entrance exam in basic maths put me right off on principle, when I had a degree in engineering, a PPL and work as an engineer using advanced maths on a daily basis. The place in Bournemouth said that that was ample proof that I was capable!! And hey I'm flying through the ATPL subjects (excuse the pun) with no bother now (except instruments which is a huge subject! :) ).. Can't recommend them enough, + I'm distance learning!! PM me if you like and I'll let you know more, they do full time as well!!

[PHLly]

surprised to see What's a Girdler say LMU is expensive...I thought it was one of the lowest priced?....though aren't the class sizes quite large by comparison with others?

Incidentally , since demise of Coventry's ATA who, by all accounts, had a v.good reputation, does anyone know where their instructors ended up? (if, indeed, they're still doing what they did?)

Quite possibly, as much as anything else, LMU's entrance exam is something of a mandatory requirement on their part, as they operate under the auspices of a University and are part funded accordingly?

[What's a Girdler]

BCFT - £1762

LMU - £1950

Albeit Distance Learning. Flight school against University in London. My choice only but hey!!

[silverknapper]

Girdler - why compare D/L against full time. That is pointless.
By all accounts PGT are excellent and are full time. Anyone know how much they are? I would say they would be a much better option than LMU.
If going D/L then I can't see any better than Bristol. Do a search on them, they have been the best for years and don't seem to be resting on their laurels.

[PHLly]

thanks Girdler.....good point aswell re flightschool/uni, depends on preferred 'training environment'...though, yes, I've been focussing on residential as opposed to d/l

Silverknapper...also heard good stuff re PGT...about £5K for fulltime...

[pimpmyglide]

I did indeed attend full time ATPL's at LMU, about a year ago! I really would recommend against it! All other reports suggest Bristol and Bournemouth are markedly better! From my experience I would say look elsewhere! Bournemouth and Bristol give you better notes, better feedback and you at least get treated like a customer...which is what you are! At LMU they treat you like a schoolkid which stinks when you think how much you're paying those guys! Most people agreed with me at the time and since about this place! To sum up...

Bad points
Old tutors (Some make paint drying seem positively rivetting!The Ex RAF ones have heads firmly wedged up own arses! Good at reading from the book but suck at actually teaching the subject)
Middle of london...alot of money on travelling and any food/drink
University Campus instead of Airfield site
Notes/Feedback poor standard and often incorrect
Rather anal card/timing system for their own benefit, not anyone elses like they'll tell you

Good Points
Good Younger tutors who genuinely seem to want you to pass
One of the exam locations
Ummmm, think that's it!

[HappyPilot]

Hi All,

if anyone is interested in doing the MCC at london met please pm me. I need an MCC partner before the 13th of June. Oh yeah, there's an offer they are doing at the moment where the price drops down to £1699 instead of the usuall £2250.

Cheers HP

[Master Yoda]

Has anyone or do you know of anyone that has completed the London Met Uni Aviation Management foundation degree (pilot pathway)?

Is this course highly rated by airlines?

Any comments on what you think of this course would be appreciated also.

The Course LINK (http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/ug-prospectus-2005/courses/aviation-management-and-operations.cfm)


Thanx

[Send Clowns]

Why do a degree in a subject far better learnt on the job? I cannot imagine any airline actually thinking of this degree as a requirement. The only management degree I would ever consider doing would be an MBA, and I am suspiscious of those; I would only consider it because companies like them, not because I think they are any use.

[Master Yoda]

Any other views on this course peeps?

[UAV689]

Hi All

A few questions RE ATPL's at Met.

I understand it is in 3 phases/modules, how long is the brush up phase for each phase, 1 week or 2? Also how good is their material? are the books good, and is there easy access to tutors for questions, ie through a forum/email?

cheers

UAV

[Geoff565]

Hi Master Yoda,

I have just completed the initial year of the Pilot's Pathway Foundation Degree at London Met, thought i'd try and be of assistance and give you my views.

You're probably aware of the breakdown of the course, but I'll run through it anway. You complete 8 modules in year 1 which must all be passed to progress onto year 2 of the course.
The second year's 8 modules include the ATPL Groundschool and the CPL Skills Test, therefore once you have completed both you are awarded the FdSC in Aviation Management & Ops. The Groundschool as you know is completed in the second year at the Tower Hill Campus, whilst the flying can be done wherever you choose, though the University do have some contacts with a range of reasonably local FTO's I believe.

In terms of the course, it certainly had it's up's and downs, but not through the fault of the department. Unfortunately, when I commenced in Sept 04 the CA dept had just been transferred to a new campus, therefore as you can expect there were a lot of teething problems in the initial few weeks of the course. That aside, there were also a lot of positives.
The initial 4 modules in year One are aimed mainly to get you back into academic study, so for someone like me and my friends who had just walked out of finishing A-levels, I found it a little tedious, but there were those on the course who didn't have English as their native language, so i guess they wanted everyone at an equal level which was fair enough.

Once those four modules are completed you move on to the more interesting stuff. One module itself is all the theory to the PPL, so it's either great if you are in the process of taking the Licence, or just as a refresher if you have a PPL already.
The teaching staff are extremely helpful and knowledgable. They each tend to specialise in one area of the course and so are very approachable should you have any problems or queries.The notes provided are fairly good and consist of powerpoint presentations, handouts and so forth. There is a range of literary based resources which for me proved invaluable and together with the handouts and lecture notes, you had more than enough information to dig into.

Overall, despite a few issues with the Uni itself, i had a very enjoyable first year studying the course. The department themselves are professional and assist in anyway they can. I certainly learnt a fair bit about the industry in the initial year, so i certainly don't regret going.

Hope that's of some use!
Cheers!
Geoff

[silverknapper]

Good point from send clowns. You want to be a pilot then train as a pilot. Don't waste time or money on a course that no one will even think twice about if it's on your CV.

[martyn_1985]

I'm hoping to go to london met uni to do my modular's there but i'm stuck on some of the questions for the entry exam. i was just wondering if any 1 knows where i can get the answers from? some1 told me to get the feedback questions and answers, do u know where i can get them from?

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Martyn,

I went to London Met and took the entry exam, PM me with the quetions if you like and I will be more than happy to help you if I can.

[TheKentishFledgling]

Well the cheque's in the post, I start in just over a month's time :\

Would love to hear (private message) from anyone else that's starting then, or anyone that's been through the res course at LMU.

Cheers,
tKF

[Kazakhstan]

Well, just found out the good news that I have passed all my ATPL exams. I would like to thank all the staff in the Aviation Department for all their help and I had a great time on the course and made a lot of good friends.

For anyone thinking of going to London Met I would like to say that I found the teachers were very helpful and I achieved high passes using their notes.

Many thanks,

Borat

[gls.fly]

Forget the results, well done by the way.... how about the ingrowing hair

[N739FC]

Where are the Nav notes you promised!!!!!!!

[carbheatout]

Geek Boy, You're telling me you want NAV notes from Cpt. Borat who mistook North Weald Rwy 20 as Staplefords Rwy 22????

GLS i think the ingrowing is preventing Cpt. Borat from doing what he likes doing best - sitting down......

:D :confused:

[Fish Out of Water]

All that I can say is 'YETSCHEMEL.' And 'my wife, she is dead. But it is ok, I have another one.' :)

[Kazakhstan]

Hi All,

The hair was never there was my own imagination. Yes did have some good training at KMIA.

Anyone who wants notes let me know have them but have not heard from anyone. I also need an address to send them to!

Have 40 hours left of hour building then CPL in January. Anyone who is around before x-mass and wants to go flying come over to Stapleford. Chris if you are around come on over can give you the notes and go flying.

Martin has been coming flying and we recently went on a 2 hour night flight up to Ipswich was a lot of fun especially short field landings on 04R Tarmac only at night. I also like to go flying under CB's they are FUN!! :=

Having a little party at Stapleford on th 27th December and New year if anyone would like to come I will be turning 25.

Carbheat hope all is well in USA when you coming to Stapleford?

'YETSCHEMEL.'

BORAT!

[chuks]

I have just started at London Met. So far, so good, I guess.

But these course notes, despite looking very handsome, are riddled with typos and errors. And why did they get that Norwegian Kindergarten student, Sven, aged 6 1/2 years, to do the technical illustrations therein, using one straight-edge and six wax crayons? Grr!

On one page you can read that Vmc is determined with the prop windmilling (with autofeather). Two pages later that prop has autofeathered, as I believe it should have. And that's just something I think I know about. What about all the stuff that's new and a bit mysterious? One careless error can cause a half-hour of frustration.

I didn't do any shopping around for a course, aside from some brief correspondence with NAC. I was in London, there was a course starting and I went for it. But the price seems to be right and the instructors and fellow students are a good crowd.

Living in London is a bit expensive, but no surprise there, I guess. Would it be cheaper overall to go for a more expensive course in a cheaper place? I am paying about GBP 420 for very basic accomodation in Whitechapel and feeding myself with microwave meals from the nearby Sainsbury's. The Tube costs about 15 quid/week with a student Oyster card and it takes only ten minutes to get to the campus. Or if one wants to walk, that takes about 25 minutes, including gawking at the freakshow that is Mile End Road.

My favourite sight is the Trinity House 'Almshouse for Decay'd Ships Masters ...' That will be me if this deal doesn't work out!

[skelly2005]

So im starting at london met for atpl exams, anybody else gunna be starting then and where you going to be doing all your flying???:)

[Leezyjet]

I'm hopefully starting on the June course. Anyone else going to be on it ?

:\

[jajabinks]

Starting in Sept 2007, what is the best preparatory courses recommended?

Thx

[gomezgonzales]

Also try Bournemouth @ Kingston Uni - or Cranfield, been to Bournemouth, like the outfit there, prefer Oxford Aviation however.

[tomrayne]

Hi All,

Is there anyone starting their residential ATPL course at London Met in June (JAR 30 A I think it is?) that requires accommodation in London?

I am currently staying in a Unite student halls, 30 mins walk from the uni, or 2 mins from Stepney Green tube (District Line, 5 mins from Tower Hill). It's great, you can roll out of bed at 8:30 and still make it in for 9:00...not that I've ever done that of course ;) Oh and it's useful for the Friday night drinks sessions too.

My course finishes at the end of May but the contract on my room runs out on the 31st Aug. So you would have the room for 2 months and then just sign a new contract with Unite, it seems like they do it all the time. The room is only £110pw, and has an en-suite bathroom. You won't get anything as good for that price this close to Tower Hill.

If anyone is interested or you would like more info please get in touch.

[rons22]

I've completed distance learning there recently and school is good, lecturers are experienced and friendly. Go for it!

[tinmouse]

Hi,

I also attended London Met for the ATPL’s. Sorry to here some people didn’t like it there. I however had a great time! Besides, the long hours of study and extreme stress.

I do remember some younger people taking a dislike to some of the tutors - to my surprise. But in my experience they where all very dedicated, polite and extremely helpful instructors. I would imagine if your going to undertake a career like this you have to give it 100%, after all you could be taking Hundred’s of people 32,000ft into the air and back down again on a daily basis?! If your not going to give it 100% they’re going to want to know why?

In any case, I’m very pleased with my decision to go to London Met. If you’re undecided on where to go, London Met has my Vote. The exams are difficult and the instructors don’t leave anyone behind, if you want it, the help and assistance is there and they always have plenty of time for you. When your eight months are up the doors are still very much open to you, I know this because I had a problem with a certain subject, but with the help of London met I got 100%. And no, it was not Comms, But Performance.

Rather ye than me.

Good luck.

P.S Don’t worry about the Math thing, It’s not really that bad at all, they will help you make sense of it during the course. I’m NO mathematician ether.

[the_daddy]

I'm in...! Got my entry exams back and am starting on the November course...
Who's with me?!
:8

[Felix Saddler]

Which campus is the residential atpl done at? From reading through this thread i presume its tower hill? Just looking for nearby accom..

[tinmouse]

Yes, it at Tower Hill, Just opposite the Minories Pub - which you will undoubtedly get to know very well!

[Felix Saddler]

haha! Thanks.. Whats the campus like?

[Felix Saddler]

Also are there pre-entry examinations?

[Felix Saddler]

And finally.. are any student grants/loans available to either cover the cost of the course or help with expenses?

[steggers]

Hi guys, i've been reading through this post as i'm thinking about starting my ATPL's at london met early next year. What is the pre-course exam like? What sorts of questions are they? If anyone could answer this, it would be a great help!!!!

[the_daddy]

Pre-course is comprised of a maths and physics revision pack. This brings you up to speed if you've been out of education for a while - but doesn't cover everything so if you're feeling worried get yourself on the bbc bitesize website or buy some GCSE books!
The questions are all done in your own time, there's no formal exam in a room (That's done when you get on!) There's 100 of them and to be honest they are all fairly straight forward. There are a few tricky ones in there that you may not immediately know the answer to and unlike the ATPL exams they are not multiple choice...
Don't be too worried about it though, if you can't pass this test then maybe you should be thinking about postpoing the real things anyway! After all it's meant to see if you're up to speed, not to make you feel dumb!
I start in 2 1/2 weeks! Can't wait.

Oh, the exams cover things like general measurment conversions, some basic flight planning, some moment stuff, a bit of human factors and generally most of the things you'd find in a PPL exam. Although there are a few that are little obscure if you ask me...!

[Nashers]

im in london met at the moment, just geting ready for my phase B exams. the course is extreamly demanding so be sure to be on ur toes from the day u start. alot of reading to do. phase A is ok. the content is there but phase B is alot more. ive been told phase C is easier though however im not sure by how much.

trust me by the time the first month is over u will be wondering what hit u. the content is not very difficult however the course is extreamly demanding as you are covering alot in a very short space of time. the speed is extreamly fast with no space to relax a all.

saying that dont worry though as all the lecturers do try to help u out when u ask. a few realy do go out of their way which is very good.

best of luck when u start!

[the_daddy]

Ha ha, don't worry I'm under no illusions as to what I've got coming... I think the mentality is 'the sooner I start, the sooner I finish!' Hence I can't wait to start

We've all got to do them at some stage regardless..

Thanks for the advice though Nashers :ok:

[davidathomas42]

I did my exams there, good tutors, you soon learn to ignor the bull S**t and learn exam technique as well as the subject as just knowlage alone wont work so dont fixate on it, theres a lot to know in a short time, but a lot of it is a reading test, take your time and work the numbers and you normally come out with the right answers, if not go for safest, 2nd highest, longest answer and avoid answers with the word only and never.

good luck.

p.s. pocket rocket! lol

[the_daddy]

Sh!t Mike, you're right - that's a pocket rocket :)

Ha ha, the things you learn!

[Vone Rotate]

Hi people.....
Anyone on here booked on the January residential week for the distance learning phase A students??

Be good to say hello and check a couple of points....
Merry xmas all:ok:

[Elbiot]

I'm a little confused. Are there entrance exams to the uni or just a revision pack to bring you up to speed?
Elliot

[adz1616]

hi
Is anyone starting full time atpl at London met on 01sep?

Pls message me if u are

Thanks

[Lew747]

Just out of curiosity...(This is for people who have completed the course at LMU)....

What did you end up paying over the entire duration? (This Excludes transport/ accomodation/ food) Etc.

Their website states the Foundation Degree in Airline Management (Pilot Pathway) is circa £2k

Plus they state, you need to fund your own flying training (It's the responsibilty of the student).

£4,000- PPL
£20,000- CPL
£12,000- IR

So is it right in saying you former students spent around £40,000 overall (Plus another 2k say, for contingency)???

*Confused* :ugh:

[davidbrent]

im phase B @ london met, got exams next week,

gotta say david's comments are spot on... you really need to become familiar with exam technique.. often the 2nd highest answer is correct and the wordiest answer is also... just useful info to know when you're really stuck on a question or running out of time!!!

also, its worth subscribing to the Bristol Question Bank, they have a lot of questions in there which do come up regularly in the real exams!!

also, Patrick Geary is a Legend!!!

[adz1616]

Hey David,

Im starting in sept at LMU... hows your course going... are you have with the course, teachers etc?

How much physics do you need to know for the course... Ive taken a tutor to teach me before i start as i never did any physics at school... and its mind boggling me...

[adz1616]

I am I the only student at London met starting in sep??? LOL

[Spit-Fire]

You will be fine, the amount of physics needed is very little. I've just finished at LMU and most of the 21 people present had little or no previous higher level maths or physics knowledge. If you want to do any background reading, get yourself an electrics gcse book - tended to be the area we most struggled on.

LMU are a fantastic bunch and with hard work they WILL get you through in the allocated time with very high results (as we have all just achieved). Don't be afraid of the course, work hard, play a little and enjoy the new friends you meet. I guaratee you'll look back and think what was all the fuss about.

Please make personal contact for any other advice

[Spit-Fire]

'In reply to a message I received'

I spent 3.5 - 4hrs travelling daily so I'm not the average student who lived a bit closer. Firstly, be prepared to but a busy social life on hold for a while - you will struggle if that gets in the way. Sure go out and have beers once a week if that's what you mean but I'd personally limit it. You will soon get behind if you don't do at least an hour or two of study in the evenings. It's basically covering what you learnt in class during the day. None of it is too hard but more a question of applying yourself. You will soon meet a whole new bunch of friends all with the same common goal and you will adapt very quickly to the new regime. Spend at least 6-8hrs on one day at the weekend and make sure you have a day off or you'll burn out!!

Financially, I'm not sure I can help you with that one. I think the cost is around £2250, well worth it. Includes all books and course hand outs. My mortgage and travel costs were in excess of £1300 a month without food and bills so budget well. You can find cheapish accommodation around if need be but make sure you have access to the internet in the evening as you will need it as part of your study programme.

All the tutors at LMU are helpful and if you're thinking about going then give them a call - always on hand.

[Sudan19]

i had a good time at LMU. every one there is nice from the girls at the office to peter knapp(head of training)

just remember to stay away from the security guards downstairs. they are d:mad::mad:s.

[davidbrent]

generally speaking, it has been a good school so far, most of the lecturers are very good, although sometimes you may get bombarded with a bit of dross, stories about flight engineers saving the day on the VC10 etc.... but lets not get into that.

TBH on the social side: you do have to put quite a bit of your social life on hold, for the last four months i've sort of drifted out of my social circle a bit, what with always declining invitations from friends to go out in the week, so i can do feedback questions or whatever, but my main recommendation to overcome this is to be sociable with your course-mates, because at the end of the day, they are in the same position as you and they know what its like to be making sacrifices, that your other 'non pilot' friends don't understand. They will be with you til the end, so i recommend going out with them at the end of the week, have a dig at the lecturers, bit of banter, etc, and it will help you get through it!!!



also, i heard there are two Norwegian girls starting in the September course, so the new intake may be quite priveliged.....

ps: doormen downstairs, .... dross!!!

[adz1616]

Hey

thanks for the positive feedback guys.... looking forward to 01 Sep now..

[marco-s]

Hi there!
you are not the only 1 starting on sep.1 I'll be there as well:)
See u mate...

Fly safe!

[ali1986]

Hi, Is anyone starting here on the 10th of november?

[ali1986]

Hello

What sort of info do you need?

here is a link to their website, they run courses every 3 months so you dont have to worry about applying after september.

Full-time ATPL (http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/lmbs/subjects/aviation/residential-atpl.cfm)

i dont know if there are many places left the only week there was only 7 plus you would need to do the entrance exam which they would have to send you and do. the best idea would be to ring them i would say.

[kestrel101]

Hi, just with regard to LMU, when it comes to doing exams, do you have to go to Gatwick or can you sit them in the university. Thanks

[SW1]

You sit the exams during nominated months. The exams run over 4 days.

I am on Phase B at the moment, distance learning and am sitting 4 exams on November 4th. The next exams being held at LMU would be in February.

Hope that helps

[kestrel101]

Thank you SW1.

[Nayen]

Hey,

Im starting on the 10th Nov. Dont realy know much about the course apart from what I have been reading up on.

Do you know if any of the books will be provided?

[SW1]

Books are provided! You pay over £1950 so that's the least you can expect- exam fees are extra. If I were you, I would get signed up to Bristol Feedback immediately. Good course with nice people. Currently distance learning myself so have not had much interaction with tutors but they all seem OK- some better than others.

[I_love_to_fly00]

Hi there,

Im doing the entrance exam at home for the london met atpl course and im having a bit of trouble with it. Can anybody give me some help and tips on how to pass this test please???

[Nayen]

'Google' will help. It does not say that you must do it from own knowledge.

Also, if you have the revision pack, alot of the answers are in there. You can also find some of the answers in the PPL Text books. Just look it up in the Index.

Hope it helps!

Good Luck!

[Leezyjet]

Im doing the entrance exam at home for the london met atpl course and im having a bit of trouble with it. Can anybody give me some help and tips on how to pass this test please???

I also used "google" as Nayen said, they don't say you can't :ok:

I then went on to pass all 14 exams so don't worry about it too much. That test is along the lines of the stuff you will get in the real things, but if you put in the time and effort then they shouldn't be too much of a problem and the guys at London Met are excellent - sometimes wish I was back there doing them all again as I had such a good time, it has been the best part of training so far - and not many people say that about Ground School !!!.

:)

[I_love_to_fly00]

Thanks leezyjet and nayen your answeres helped a lot, the course sounds great really want to get on it from the feedback ive read. So dont want to fail the entrance exam:)

[paulyp]

Ive just completed the questionare, with regard to starting the DL course. Most of the answers are in the brush up course text, but others i found in my old PPL manuals and on thro' google.

Good Luck

[I_love_to_fly00]

Is anyone currently in the middle of their ppl well almost finished and going to london met in march? I want to start the march course but weather is holding my ppl up do you think could be finished by then, im almost at the end just have a long solo nav and some manouvres to do! Anyone in the same situation as me? And going to london met?

[richardos101]

im starting my ATPL in march at london met, hopfully might see you there. you should easily finish your ppl by then.

[Pilot2/b]

I have just completed a full time ATPL course at London Metropolitan University and I thought I would share my experience.
I have personally had a very good experience at London Met. I would highly recommend them to anybody. I found the course not only very interesting also great fun.
The lecturers were second to none with some great experience behind them. I found their teaching methods excellent. They always have time for their students and are very patient. They also have some brilliant stories of VC-10s and their RAF days! :ok:
The lectures try to make the lessons fun and enjoyable which I really liked, for example Chris the Air Law lecturer had great ways of getting you to remember the endless laws and rules. The subject I was most worried about was Gen Nav, however Peter’s ways of teaching and his rules really helped. He knows the wiz wheel like the back of his hand.
My advise to anyone looking at doing a ATPL course at London met is just work hard and enjoy the course and you will pass. Do not rely on question banks to pass the exams, their a great tool to help you through the exams but if you have a paper like my Instruments paper you will fail as only 2 or 3 questions were from the question bank.
I passed all 14 exams first time with an average of 95% and I am happy. I don’t think I would have ever of got results like this if it weren’t for the great lecturers and friends from London Met. JAR34 guys I will miss you! Beer will be flowing in a few weeks at the catch-up. :)
Any questions PM me.

Cheers Pilot2/b

[anakwalajinn]

please delete this had to test :)

[flyvirgin]

Booked and start AUG 31ST, I carnt wait.:ok:

[MacGB]

Hi Everyone
I posted a new thread about current situation at London Met vs Oxford etc, but thought I would also post here in case it reaches anyone else/more ppl...

Has anyone finished here very recently and if so what do they think of it now in 2010? (Full Time)

Any comparisons to the likes of Oxford (Which costs another £1600ish)?

Had a very detailed reply on the other thread but everyone's opinion is welcomed, thank you! :ok:

PS. Thanks to flyvirgin for his great advice.

[RITZER82]

Hi does anybody know what is the entry requirement for LMU atpl ground school? I have D in both GCSE Maths and English although I am educated to a Degree level in Business and Finance thanks.

[SW1]

Course Pre-entry Requirements

Academic

There are no academic prerequisites for undertaking this course laid down by the JAA. However, it is expected that you must demonstrate a sufficient knowledge of maths and science. We would recommend a minimum of GCSE grade C or above, (or equivalent) in Mathematics and English, plus preferably Physics. In order to avoid problems later in the course you must complete the pre-course Maths and Physics study package prior to commencing the course. The Course Organiser will be able to advise you if you are in any doubt.

[aviationdreams91]

is there any new reviews or news about London met in 2010 ?? has anyone gone through their atpl course ?

[MagicTiger]

Yes finished in April 2010.

Good, and from what I have heard improved instructors in several subjects, POF, Gasturbines - Patrick is great in AGK, you will never forget what valves an aircraft has.
Be prepared to have your head ready for take off, as some instructors ex RAF, and they set of with some tempo on some of the subjects.
All in all it was good, has it's negatives also, specially the coffee police security - be prepared to spend extra hours after school self study, 2-4 hours a day + one weekend day - after the first 2 - 3 weeks.

[aviationdreams91]

Thankss for the info mate :)

[Spit-Fire]

You will not regret going to London Met I promise. Great family of instructors and friends for life

[aviationdreams91]

yhyh social life ther is one very important thing for me , cuz am livin in egypt now and i will start a new life in the uk so this point is realy gdd n major :ok:

[rriisshhii]

I'm currently in Phase A of the 'new' London Met ATPL course. By 'new', I mean in a different building.

6 weeks into the course, I can tell you that it is intense, but the majority of the subject matter is not too difficult. The difficulty lies in the sheer volume of information you have to assimilate in such a short space of time, and according to others on later courses, the first Phase is the lightest in terms of load.

Phase A consists of 3 subjects: AGK, PoF and Performance. The 4 lecturers for these respective subjects are excellent, and have a wealth of knowledge and experience between them. I have yet to fault them. Each will have their own teaching methods, and not all will be able to adapt to them but the lecturers are very accommodating.

The social aspect is good; the building is in a very nice part of London with plenty of pubs to go to on a Friday afternoon. Although the lecturers do seem to favour the Minories. Having said that, my social life has become almost non-existent. It's necessary to take a break from the daily 2-3 hours of revision that is expected, but not so much as to be detrimental to your studies.

This sounds all well and good but I may very well retract all praise for London Met if I fail the first phase :}

[BoeingDreamer]

Do not forget to use Bristol QB as your main revision tool - besides that London Met is what it is, if you put the effort, you will get the results!

[Ikarusleftwing]

I'm looking into starting this course, has anyone completed it or looking into starting it too?

Any previous experience with this course would be appreciated if shared.

Thanks

Aviation Management & Operations (Foundation Degree FDSc) (http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/ug-prospectus/courses-11-12/aviation-management---operations.cfm)

[WillingPilot]

There's quite a lot of threads about this. But I'll try and give you some information.

It's a course which gains you the licences and a little experience of being a pilot.

Doing this course won't guarantee you a job straight away, I hope that helps.

[Ikarusleftwing]

Any more detailed info folks?

Heard they were not taking pilot pathway students this year, but open to application for next september.

[Master Yoda]

What's happening at London Met these days?

Anyone doing their ATPL there at the mo?

[Lew747]

How detrimental would it be for someone who would most likely live at home and commute into central london daily for the duration of the course? I live in Ashford, Kent which is about 55 miles away or so? Would the commute effect my studies?

Also, did anyone hold down any P/T jobs whilst studying? Maybe just 1 day a week on a Sunday or something just to keep some money coming in?

Cheers :ok:

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

And dont forget Whetherspoons is just round the corner for a few beers on a Friday night :}.

[corpus callosum]

Ah alas The Minories is no longer opposite, since they moved building. But its only a five minute walk away ;)

On topic if you can focus enough to study on the train then you would be able to get a lot done, I didn't have that kind of focus but still had enough time to study every night after a hour and a half train ride there and back.

I also in the first Phase I has a weekend job it was not ideal, but there were people on my course who got very high averages who had part time jobs for the whole course so I guess it depends on the person.

[pudoc]

Does LMU still supply students with Nordian text books?

Are the latest editions any better than the previous? I read that the books have spelling and grammar errors. I'm skeptical about putting my trust in ATPL books which have such errors. I don't want books where I'm trying to make sense of the English, it's gonna be hard enough learning the theory itself!

To the current students, how do you find them coupled with the notes you get? Do you use any other text books/CDs?

I know there are posts on this forum about them, but I want the most up to date info.

Cheers. :ok:

[The500man]

Does LMU still supply students with Nordian text books?Yes.

Are the latest editions any better than the previous? I read that the books have spelling and grammar errors.The latest edition is the sixth edition. I can't tell you whether they are better than the previous versions but I've been told they do include the new matrerial for when the syllabus changes later this year.

Personally so far out of Module 1, I've found Principles of Flight by far the worst written, so my advice is go to a pilot shop and ask to see the PoF books from each provider that the shop stocks and compare them. If you think the Nordian version is fine then you will likely be okay with the rest of their books.

[Capt Pit Bull]

Is Mike Alderton still teaching there?

[captgeorgekajo]

No, Uncle Mike retired last year. I even managed to get a drink out of him at his leaving do! :-)

[corpus callosum]

Mike was a character for sure. His favourite expressions seemed to be:

"Like a love sick bird" and "Sh*t mike your right"

Used to make me laugh, made PoF just a bit more interesting.

Corpus

[AJ1990]

Is anybody booked in for the 30th August start date? Feel free to PM me would be good to see who else will be there next month :ok:

[DavidFlies]

I certainly am, chap. Look forward to meeting you!

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Enjoy it guys, I had a great time at LMU :ok:.

[AJ1990]

T minus 10 hours till I start ATPLS at London Met...feeling a tad nervous about what I've got myself into! :ooh:

[corpus callosum]

It will be alright, Mike is no longer there standing with his CAM shaft looking menacing.

I had an amazing 8 months there and met a lot of good people. :ok:

[ATPMBA]

Hello,

Do they offer dorm rooms or do you need to find your own apartment to stay?

What's the price to stay there during your course of training?

Any social life in the area?

Thanks.

[rriisshhii]

No London Metropolitan do not provide accommodation for the ATPL course. The onus is on you to find a place for yourself, which can be expensive in Central London.

As for the social life, it's brilliant; Leicester Square, Covent Garden and Soho for all the clubs and bars. You can Google them from your desk at home, where you'll be sat poring over 14 books and 1000s of questions of feedback. Every night.

On a serious note though, you'll make a good bunch of friends on the course and the lecturers are a laugh once you get to know them. And every so often you need to have a break, refresh and have some fun or the exams will break you. Just don't do it during exam week!

[Jerry Lee]

Do they use Nordian books? I heard they are the worst ATPL books around.
If I studied at London Metropolitan University, would I be allowed to use OAA books or others?

Do you confirm the Nordian books are not tha bad?

What's the full-time (residential, in-class) course like?

[truckflyer]

The course uses the Nordian books, which I agree is not the best. However in your own studies you can use what you want, I used OAA books, which are very good, or their CBT's.

However London Met is a great place, instructors are excellent. Highly recommended!

[Jerry Lee]

Thank you! Looking at them with Stapleford Flight Centre for my future conversion (or 0-to-hero course).

[truckflyer]

Do your PPL first, if you have not already done this and hour build, when starting ATPL, it will take more time than what you do at London Met, around 4 -5 hours, 6 days a week, in addition to London Met.

One great tip, save ONE exam (Comm), until you have finished your hour building, this way you have 3 years from this final exam to complete your CPL/IR - so you get maximum time, in case money is an issue.

[Jerry Lee]

So there would be nothing wrong if I brought into the building OAA books instead of Nordian ones. I'd also try to not buy the Nordian books so that I can spare some penny.

Perfect!

[truckflyer]

The Nordian books are included, and you need to have them for classes, the OAA books are good, but maybe a bit to much detailed!

Don't show them to Peter, or he might tell you what he thinks of OAA :p.

Mike took and threw mine in the rubbish! :}

But he is not there anymore, besides that, all is fine!

[Jerry Lee]

Hmmm ok!

Depper might be better in the future...

[Morris542]

Has anybody done the distance learning course with London Met? If so are there any good/bad points?

[pudoc]

I'm just going to say don't even consider LMU, please just do not consider it.

There are much better DL providers like Bristol.

[tallyhowchaps2011]

Well what can i say about london met. it an absolute shambles dont go there it was the biggest mistake of my flying career.

The nordian books are useless full of spelling mistakes.

The lectures weren't there the whole time if they were it was often that they were late., one of them just used slide shows for the whole radio nav and met lessons. a different lecturer told us to bristol comms and air law as they were both pointless and no point learning them.

but on the plus side there was one old fashioned gentleman who knew his stuff very well and had lots of time to help students no matter whether it was in person or over the phone. with out mr geary the place would fall apart.

[Groundloop]

I'm just going to say don't even consider LMU, please just do not consider it.

If you are going to make a blunt recommendation like that - back it up with some information for your reasoning.

A pathetic post like yours help no-one.:ugh:

[pudoc]

How about less than 20% of people passed all 3 exams in Phase A first time. The pass rates of the current class are absolutely shocking.

[mad_jock]

A 20% pass rate is more due to the quality of the people doing the course that the teaching.

Even if the course was compete an utter ****e, it should be higher that that unless they are teaching, against the course requirements.

[rogerthat777]

Has anyone got any further news on London Met's closure of the aviation dept?

I heard that the foundation degree students have been left in the lurch with no ATPL being offered for the second year?

[sura95]

I went to the most recent London met open day, for their ATPL course. They made it pretty clear that they aren't doing the course any more. Waste of a day. :*

Basically invited everyone to tell them they aren't doing the course.

[The500man]

They are looking at moving to a college in Bromley, however there is no news yet as to whether that may happen or not. The DL students were all given a full refund. All the student records were sent to the CAA so students could continue with other course providers.