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Easy226
27th Oct 2003, 21:28
Hi everyone,
I'm thinking of planning a flight from Wellesbourne to Liverpool and I was wondering how much the landing fees are? I also noticed that there is a special route to be flown towards the airfield and i was wondering if the route is tricky to fly for a fairly inexperienced pilot.....?
Many Thanks :ok:
Dan

S-Works
27th Oct 2003, 22:01
The route is easy, it is just a Visual Reporting point to ease you into there airspace.

Handing is mandatory. I fly in 2/3 times per week during my busy periods at work and the cost for my Cessna is £45 which includes landing and handling. Being a "major" airport they have great Instrument approaches which I have used on a number of occasions and this is all included in the handling fee.

The local handling agents are suberb and have a pilots lounge with big leather sofas and free drinks (alcholic for your self loading ballast!).

They treat you the same regardless of a/c type with chocks and a ride to the lounge. Refueliing is all done for you and they are average priced for Avagas. Weather and fligt planning etc is all included in the price.

Well worth a trip.

cessna l plate
27th Oct 2003, 22:04
For a non based aircraft, I believe the fees are about £18.

As for the entry exit routes,

If you are coming from the south, then entry to the zone will either be chester or oulton park depending on the runway in use.
Chester is not too hard to find (although I am still training, I always seem to find it when I've been out of zone) Once there, route towards Stanlow Oil Refinery (you cannot miss the giant chimneys) Try and avoid overflying it, but there is a retail park to the left. Over this, over the mersey for right base 09. Beware the restricted area though. Keeping the M53 on your left should see you clear.

Oulton park is even easier, as it is in the same place as Whitegates beacon more or less. Beware as this is the exit point for the Manchester low level route south bound, and can be very busy. From there look for the runcorn bridge to the right. This is the ILS approach path for 27 so be careful. As you go over the river, look for the lighthouse on the other side. Flying just to the right of this will send you over Hale village where you can turn 1 mile finals.

Just a short disclaimer, I am but a humble student PPL, currently engaged in flogging the daylights out of the circuit, and it has been a couple of months since I left the zone. But to my inexperienced eyes, it isn't that hard. No doubt others will give greater detaill, and point out anything I have got wrong, but this is my advice, for what its worth.


I think this is about it,

S-Works
27th Oct 2003, 23:17
£18 is the landing fee. For non based aircraft there is also compulsory handling. which is where the total fee of £45 comes from.

cblinton@blueyonder.
27th Oct 2003, 23:49
How long is it since a handling agent has been needed?

I used to fly in there during the day and at night and have only ever been charged a reasonable landing fee:*

Davidt
28th Oct 2003, 01:07
Mandatory handling has been in at Liverpool for a year or more. This is one handling agent who will give some value for the fee.Courtesy bus to main terminal or the old terminal Art deco listed now a Marriott Hotel, nice lounge free tea etc.

Standard vfr routings are as described and are relatively easy to spot visually, atc are helpfull and friendly for a busy reagional airport. Expect a standard sqwark 0260 on entering the zone.Listen to the atis a good way out that will tell you which runway in use and thus which entry point to aim for 09=Chester,
27=Whitegate.

Circuits are variable and some times simultaneously left and right but as you are in controlled airspace its not a worry.

Comming from the South you will usually join left base 27 and right base 09.

Land on the numbers 27 and long for 09 as the GA terminal is at the 27, end saves a long taxi.

Lock up yer hub caps or the scousers 'll nick em, if a group of snotty nosed kids come up and say "watch yer plane mister "always pay the bigest!

formationfoto
28th Oct 2003, 03:14
I think the posts here have said it. I have flownf to and from there a lot over the years and would rather not have the mandatory handling but the team at LAS are very helpful so I don't get too upset about handing over the hard earned.

Have twice in the past year asked to do unusual things at Liverpool and the guys in air traffic have been very helpful.

If you go it is worth atrip to the old terminal building (now the Marriot hotel) just for some aviation nostalgia. I think there is a Jetstream sitting on what was the main apron.

BigEndBob
28th Oct 2003, 04:13
Gone are the days of the 50% training discount...eh

£7 used to be a bargain!

Aussie Andy
28th Oct 2003, 06:48
Exeter give training rates: was there on Sunday with Fly Stimulator and they charged just £14.95 including an NDB/ILS approach.

BoeingMEL
28th Oct 2003, 21:44
No access to a 1:500,000 and flight guide easy226? Or will you be popping in here every time you fly? Why not provide the forecast wind and we can calculate your heading and groundspeed? Not being cynical but just how much propping up does a guy need? bm

tonyhalsall
28th Oct 2003, 22:55
That's a bit brutal bm!!

Were you never inexperienced and nervous - seeking reassurances before a major cross country?

Personally I'd be asking the same thing flying into Old sarum from all the way up here in the NW. Looking at the charts and flight guides just convinces me that all those danger Areas and MATZ's make the trip worth putting off.

Lighten up.

Tony

dublinpilot
28th Oct 2003, 22:58
Boeing,

Have a look at the question again, before making unhelpful posts like that.

Ok, I'm sure the landing fee is in a flight guide. Is the handling fee? Are either in the AIP? (Remember one does not need to have a flight guide).

And as for the other part of the question, Easy was looking for advise from people who have flown there before, as to whether navigating and identifing the reporting points would be difficult, particularly given his low experience level. Don't think you'll find that in a flight guide or on a chart.

All in all, I'd say (apart from your post, and now mine) the responses here have probably been very helpful. I hope to fly to Liverpool next year, and will certainly look back to this thread before I do.

dp

Tall_guy_in_a_152
28th Oct 2003, 22:59
On the contrary, BM, this is an excellent place to ask about landing fees, particularly where 'mandatory' handling is also involved.

It seems that at Liverpool mandatory actually means mandatory, but often there are dodges (e.g. pre-arrangement with a local club, or just asking nicely) that can avoid certain fees at larger airfields / airports.

TallGuy.

Maxflyer
28th Oct 2003, 23:11
It's people like BM who make inexperienced pilots like myself avoid asking questions on here. So much for a fraternity of like minded people! It must be great to be perfect.

Holdposition
28th Oct 2003, 23:21
B.M.

Super very well said if I say so myself! Keep helpful comments like that coming and we will soon be empty of new PPL's, maybe being as EX captain that is what you wish. This guy had the forth right to ask good questions about a place he has never been before and to seek any local tips etc, good on him to ask I say. If I venture to foreign parts always put a question on here about said place and the comments I receive are a big bonus in my F.P.

Maybe, just maybe after you re-read your comments you may feel you have been taken out of context and you will respond accordingly, however I doubt it but would be delighted to be proved wrong.

Easy226
29th Oct 2003, 04:23
Hi, thanks very much for the replies everyone - MOST were very helpful! I was asking about landing fees as my Jeppesen flight guide does not publish them. Whats the preferencial runway at Liverpool - 27?
Many Thanks
Dan

tonyhalsall
29th Oct 2003, 04:40
Uhmm, just how inexperienced are you easy?

27 would be most appropriate with any wind that has a Westerley component - Check the weather and anticipate accordingly.

Tony

Hooligan Bill
29th Oct 2003, 15:47
Not such a dumb question as it happens. In calm and light winds conditions runway 27 is the preferencial runway. This is because it has the longer TODA, a slightly more flexible noise abatement procedure and a favourable gradient.;)

poetpilot
30th Oct 2003, 22:48
Dial up their ATIS 124.325 on you way up, before you call them on APP.

It will give you all the pressure settings, wind, runway in use, etc. plus a code letter, so when you call 'em for the first time you can say "...with Information Charlie (or Delta or Fox, or wotever...) and you'll have it all written down.

Make sure to call APP say at 10 mins to run before you get to Oulton Park. If they say "Standby" then don't enter the zone, wait till they call you back.

Oh and it's worth phoning them afore ye set off. They will then have your details. tell 'em you're relatively inexperienced and not familiar with the zone and you should be treated well.

There's a great info pack on the Liverpool/Manchester low level area at

http://www.caa.co.uk/dap/dapcharts/ontrack/document.asp?groupid=302

which tells you all the major VRPs & the lay of the land.

BoeingMEL
31st Oct 2003, 20:34
OK..I stand corrected.... a little! And well done everyone else for their constructive advice and comments. bm

dublinpilot
31st Oct 2003, 20:45
Fair play to you Boing for accepting the critisim

:ok:


I guess we all say something from time to time, that we think better of later :)

dp

Holdposition
2nd Nov 2003, 16:44
Good of you BM to stand up like that, shows a true man, in fact I did understand what you meant and to some degree agree with you, however, think you will agree you just put it wrong and no shame in that. We need people of your wide experience on here so hope to see you make some more input soon, cheers.

DFC
2nd Nov 2003, 18:11
While BM had a fair point, it was aimed at the wrong person.

Easy is displaying good airmanship by using all the available information to plan the flight.

The reason why many pilots are resorting to using PPRUNE members (who may not have any aviation experience or who may provide incorrect or intentionally misleading info) for such guidance is that the training system is turning out pilots who do not have the necessary skills required to plan and execute a short crosscountry to a nearby airfield in controlled airspace.

Having taken their money and shoved these pilots out into the real world, they simply wash their hands.

If this wasn't the case then I am sure that this concientious pilot would in the first place have turned to a local flight instructor for guidance.

Should this pilot get it all wrong on the flight into Liverpool (unlikely but,) what credibility would be given to information obtained from an anomous internet based chat board?

Once again, I say that Easy has displayed good airmanship by doing his/her best to ensure a safe and efficient flight.

What a pity that many other pilots in the same situation simply blaze on in often arrogent ignorance.

Regads,

DFC

poetpilot
2nd Nov 2003, 20:55
Whilst I understand and agree with you DFC, possibly another cause for such queries from relatively inexperienced pilots is simply the fact that Pprune (and other forums) are there, and people get used to asking before looking around to gather the necessary information.

The danger in doing that is, as you say, that they may pick up incorrect, even potentially dangerous or misleading info from well-meaning but misinformed posters.

The solution? Maybe forums should have a specific set of links to official information available as a maintained service.... and then we would all have to discipline ourselves to refer such questions to those links in the first instance.

Trouble is, there are so many links to so many sources of official information... so round we go again, then people who ask the questions want the local knowledge from the local users, because it apparaently condenses what they want to know....

round n round n round n ...... we go !
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