View Full Version : FAA CPL/IR in G-REG Aircraft
20th Oct 2003, 02:34
Can the holder of an FAA CPL/IR work commercially in a G-REG aircraft?
And yes I know the IR part only currently equates to an IMC in the UK.
With IR "light" or JAR Basic IR on the horizon things could improve.......
20th Oct 2003, 02:57
In short ... No.
ANO Art 21 4a(i) covers it in more detail.
20th Oct 2003, 03:00
Can I suggest that you have a look at the 'N' reg thread on the BizJet page...I think it answers the question. The CAA are taking an interest in those using their FAA licences on N reg aircraft in the UK...to try and use your FAA licence on a G reg aircraft would probably not be a smart move...
20th Oct 2003, 03:05
Two different situations.
The question being asked by Bose-x has a really simple answer. Your FAA CPL cannot be used for hire-or-reward ops in a G-reg aircraft. Period.
The Bizjets forum is delving into the much murkier rules surrounding 2-crew ops under Part 135 (amongst other parts) outside the US.
Not worth confusing the two questions at this stage IMHO.
JAR-FCL 1.015 deals with the validation of non-JAA licences.
Provided that the holder of an FAA licence meets the appropriate requirements then there is no problem.
However, validation is only for 1 year and any extension requires the approval of all the JAA States.
Right to Work in the EU rules may also apply.
20th Oct 2003, 04:04
The ANO incorporates those parts of JAA that we have elected to honour. The ANO clause I quoted makes it clear that the CAA wil not validate non-JAA CPLs for commercial operations.
Try em and find out :-D
20th Oct 2003, 04:42
Article 21(4)(a)(i) only covers licences which are automatically "deemed to be a licence rendered valid under this Order". So the holder of an FAA CPL/IR has no statutory right to work commercially in a G-reg aircraft. However, a non UK licence holder may apply to have the licence validated by the CAA under the provisions of article 27(I) which states:
"(1) Subject to paragraphs (2) and (6), the CAA may issue a certificate of validation rendering valid for the purposes of this Order any flight crew licence granted under the law of any country other than the United Kingdom other than a JAA licence. A certificate of validation may be issued subject to such conditions and for such periods as the CAA thinks fit."
The rest of the article can be ignored in the case of FAA licences.
It is my understanding that the CAA will process all applications for validations and provided the applicant meets all the requirements (which may include additional tests) they will eventually issue certificate of validation.
20th Oct 2003, 05:14
Clear as mud then! What I want to know is if a British holder of an FAA CPL living in the UK could take on commercial work, like private air charter work or flying someones pet dog around in a G-Reg aircraft.
Is it possible to get the licence validated for this purpose or whould they have to go out and find an N-Reg aircraft for the purpose and in fact would the same apply in an N-reg?
20th Oct 2003, 05:31
It really is a lot clearer than you are perhaps being led to believe.
You will find that the stock answer from the CAA is that FAA CPLs will not be validated unless you effectively do all of the work necessary to have a JAA CPL issued... If you are looking at the FAA CPL as some sort of short cut, you can forget it.
The route of buying an N reg and touting for business is also a non-starter. You would need to operate under an AOC (Air Operators Certificate) and your aircraft would therefore commonly need to registered in a JAA country.
Whilst N-reg aircraft can be incorporated on a temporary basis onto an AOC, you have to demonstrate why an equivalent G-Reg was not available, and the authorised incorporation will commonly not last for more than 6 months. Circumventing Flight Crew Licensing issues would not be seen as a good reason for putting an N-reg onto an AOC and the exemption would almost certainly not be granted.
To do what you want will require you to obtain a JAA CPL or ATPL (as appropriate), and there are currently few shortcuts.
20th Oct 2003, 06:00
Actually it's not what I want, more of a question out of curiosity really. And to be frank it disturbs me a little that not knowing me you are assuming that I am looking for a "shortcut"!!!
I appreciate the sharing of knowledge but please don't be so quick to judge my motives for asking the question.
It just strikes me that JAA has made the things very unharmonised compared to the way that the Americans have there act together!!
20th Oct 2003, 06:09
It shouldn't disturb you. You have made successive posts relating to the FAA IR, conversion of a G-reg aircraft onto the N-reg, and now the possible use of an FAA IR.
Many have looked for shortcuts to the equivalent privileges of a JAA CPL. It is not a slur.
20th Oct 2003, 15:56
Thats my point exactly you have added 2+2 together from other posts that are actually unconnected and come up with 3. You have then come up with the assumption that I am trying achieve some sort of short cut. When I can assure you that one is not needed.
I also take it by the term "shortcut" that you are infering that an FAA CPL/IR is inferior to a JAA one.
I am just merely trying to understand what is allowable and what is not. Humour me!!!
20th Oct 2003, 16:24
I also take it by the term "shortcut" that you are infering that an FAA CPL/IR is inferior to a JAA one
This is obviously a touchy subject. I have both FAA and CAA tickets and I don't have to imply anything. If you want to go down that route, it is a fact though that the Ground Exams for the FAA CPL are much easier than their JAA counterparts, and it is also a fact that the flight test is easier.
Unless you want a career in instructing or low grade P2 roles, it is also a fact that in the current market, you would require an FAA ATP to secure a career in aviation, even in the US. The FAA ATP flight test, for which there is no equivalent in JAA world is very very tough. I'd say that FAA starts easier than JAA and gets harder at the end. I don't think many would disagree fundamentally.
Humour me by not picking fights. You have requested and received a lot of useful information over your various FAA threads in recent days. A reasonable proportion of that has come from me.
20th Oct 2003, 16:57
I appreciate the advice and was not intending on picking a fight. Merely a little frustrated by the fact that you had judged my motives for the question with no background knowledge of me.
At no time did I indicate that it was a desired path for me or for that matter whether it was path that I had already been down!
Believe me I am well aware of the differences in the two as well!
The question was raised as a result of questions that were put to me and I did not know the answer. I admit that I am fallible and don't know the answers, I therefore felt it more appropriate to make it as general question to my peers.