Flight training in Australia

[gareth08]

Hi there,

I am considering taking up flight training in Australia towards an ATPL for two reasons. 1. It is much cheaper to train 2. I had a glitch in the JAA class one medical which wasn't even an issue in the Australian class one.

I am aware that i would need to gain a work permit or emmigrate in order to gain employment in Australia which i am willing to do.

I was wondering what are the job prospects in austrlia with regards to airlines , charter services and flight instructors like compared to europe and the US. I know the US currently has 10,000 unemployed trained pilots.

Is the level of training in Australia as good as europe / US? Has anyone any advice on which schools in Australia are recommended.

Any advice is welcomed

Cheers

Gareth

[redsnail]

Yes the flight training is as good as you'll get in Europe.
Depending on where you want to live will depend on what school you go for.
I can recommend a couple of schools in the Sydney area, there are a few good schools in Perth, and there's a very good one in Innisfail, Qld. I am sure others will recommend schools in other cities.
Which school suits depends on what sort of person you are. If you want the big academy schools then look at BAe's one in Adelaide or the one the RAAF uses in Tamworth.
Aerospace Aviation and Whitworth's are two that I would look at in Sydney (Bankstown). If you want a great little school in the Sydney area but not at a busy aerodrome then go to Liverpool Flying School at Hoxton Park, Sydney.
Perth, speak to Minovation. (The CFI is a PPRuNer and a Brit).

**There are more pilots than jobs**
The job scene. Do not expect to go to the RHS of a Dash 8 or 737 in Oz. It won't happen. Unless you do a cadet scheme you won't go near turbines for ages. (Note, the cadet schemes in Oz mean YOU pay)
Usual path.
Do the CPL and usually an IR (not striclty necessary) and get the ATPL subjects done.
Either get an instructor rating and hope you can get enough students to survive and earn money or pack up and head north or west to get a scenic/charter job in a C206 or the like. You'll be competing with at least 50 other guys for that job too.
Do a season. Head "home" and do the IR and claim that on tax.
Do another season and get some twin time/IR flying in.
Shift to a bigger town or even a city and repeat job seeking hassles.
Your aim is a full time twin position.
Once you have at least 1000 hours twin or so then you will start to look good to a turbine operator. (note, if the market hiccups or VB/QF aren't hiring, then you can get stuck)
With luck it all works out and somewhere along the line you get a job with Qantas, Virgin Blue or NJS flying jets. (Note **many good pilots just never get that lucky**Many stay in the regionals because of the better lifestyle)
With the instructing route, you gain your Grade 2 and then your Grade 1 instructor rating and teach twin IR students and the like. Hopefully then get a twin charter job or go to a turbine job.

The hardest part in the whole thing is getting the visa.
The next hardest part is getting a job.
If you want to convert it back to a JAR licence, be prepared to go through a lot of money... (hopefully by the time you need to worry about it, it will be easier)

[Sheep Guts]

Hey Redsnail,
You didnt train at Liverpool Flying School too did ya? I did my Private, NightVFR, and Aeros there with Rene.

Gareth08,
If you chose Australia it will be hard work for you but worth while. Youl learn how to navigate properly especially if you do some hour Building flights into the Centre. Switch off that GPS and see how the real skills are. The job market as Red says is very tuff. But with commitment and dedication youll get there. The only problem is if you want to return to Britain there will be no short cuts in converting your licence and it will cost you a further $30,000 usd to convert. Thats what Ive researched sofar hence me staying with my 4 ATPS. :)


Sheep

[redsnail]

Guts,
I did. I got my CPL there and my first taste of commercial flying. I was a part time instructor there ~92 and ~93. Rene's fantastic.

[AIRWAY]

Great post RedSnail :ok:

Im actually doing my PPL here in the Uk, but i intend to go DownUnder to do the comercial and then a couple of years doing GA flying around oz, that would be fun and interesting. Im in no hurry to fly jets straight away.

Im off to Australia for 3 weeks around February to check some flying schools down in Melbourne ( And holidays :} of course ) i will also be popping in to Sydney. I think Melbourne in terms of flying training will be cheaper than Sydney. Anyway im off to continue my research.

:}

[troposurfer]

hey gareth 08,

Oz is a great place for doing your flying training both CPL and IR as well as PPL etc. The training is very cheap compared to Europe and the UK especially. Just wait until the exchange rate is back up near the $3 mark and you'll save thousands. But, as with anywhere , you must shop around to get the best price/quality!

Don't assume that other cities will be cheaper than Sydney because that is 'essentially' the 'capitol'. (yes I know Canberra is ). Sydney has a lot of airfields crammed into a smaller space with literally hundreds of schools competing for your business. Melbourne is not necessarily as cheap as Sydney and I was quoted some horrendous prices in Brisbane and Adelaide. Incidentaly Melbournes population is only just marginally smaller the Sydneys'.

You should consider where you will stay. It will be cheaper in more rural areas but if you are attempting an IR then instrument fields will be few and far between. Most of the population live within 100km of the coast so the big instrument fields are there.

The other posters are right about the job scene. I was in Oz for 15 months and saw how difficult for the locals to get jobs, 20 30 or 40 people going for the same job and most pilots started when they were 16 to 19. Pilot training/ground school can be done at tech colleges or schools. Entirely different to Europe.

Take a look at the DIMIA website for immigration. You may find it very difficult to get a visa you already have to have a qualification or a skill which they are looking for with plenty of experience and to emmigrate takes about 18-24 months of interviews and assessments all of which you have to pay for. Try working holiday visa (1 yr and you can work) or business visa(need loadsa money) or study visa( part time work and poss extended stay).

There are loads of bush flying,fish spotting air taxi and pleasure flight type roles. Not much on the airline scene flying jets but the turboprops serve most of the regional airports,(saab 340/dash8 etc) most big towns have a council run airport. Not Like the UK!!


One last thing. If you are not an Aussie then you will be at the bottom of the list for any job, unless they are desperate.

Good Luck! Take it easy. No Worries!!!

[gareth08]

Hi guys thanks for the advice so far.

I'm not in any great hurry to steam off to the airlines. I'd rather hone my skills flying a small prop in the outback and getting paid, instead of plugging the autopilot in at 1,000ft and reading the paper for the next few hours :p

I was thinking of going out to do the training on a visiting visa or something like that and then seeing what happens after that - see what the market for jobs is like etc etc before i start emmigrating to the other side of the world!! If need be and the markets are a little more attractive in the states or canada i could always convert the licence and fly there. I dont intend to go back to Europe/UK as they will probably not issue me a JAA medical as i will be down on records at Gatwick as having failed a JAA class one medical, so screw them :E

Can anyone tell me what the beurocratic redtape bull*hit would be to convert a licence to one of the above - will it involve a jackpot win in the lottery aswell.

I know i am going about all of this the long way, but if i can see a bit of the world and build some 'quality' experience in small aircraft then i'll be happy.

Cheers

Gareth.

[troposurfer]

yo gareth08,


take your time when making your decision as it is going to cost you a lot of money, flying is an expensive business.

use a search engine such as google and click on their Oz portal link at the bottom of the page so you get info about Oz only. Do searches for CASA, DIMIA, flying schools and tech courses and cheap flights!

CASA have said they intend to apply for JAA status which presumeably means they will have to conform to JAA rules if they want this. This is due around 2005 so my aussie mates keep telling me.(They also think it means they can come and work in Europe, not without EU passport mate!)

Currently CASA(aussie CAA) has quite a number of 'differences' to ICAO/JAA practices whether they will change I don't know, a quick sqizz on their website will tell you more. Their medicals, as you seem aware, allow cetain ailments that other ICAO states do not( colour blindness being one). This restricts you to flying domestically only ie within Australian airspace. You can also count microlight hours towards a CPL/ATPL and do self study for PPL/CPL/ATPL and take exams one at time for the ATPL with 7 exams as opposed to 14 JAA. CPL/PPL is one combined cyber exam done over the internet at an approved centre. No 10 day wait for results, instant! Amazing.

If you are under 30 you can get a working holiday visa which costs you £70 in the UK and gets you 12 months with working privileges. A holiday visa only gets you 3 months(sometimes 6) and they frown upon people studying and working on those visas. Just a word about the Aussie customs/immigration, they can be very tough and ask a lot of questions and search all of your stuff and if you are caught over staying your visa you will end up in Woomera with the asylum seekers and be deported in whatever you are wearing when you are caught. It happens.

You can get longer stay visas if you book your flying course through an accredited school or tech college ( like US now) this gives you part time working rights too and the possibility of permanent residency.

Just one final important consideration. The weather!

If you don't like it too hot or cold be prepared for a shock. Oz has a tremendous variety of climates. Tropical,temperate, arid and maritime. This is very important for where you do your flying as it can have an adverse effect on VFR flying(PPL/CPL). The thunderstorms are amazing and produce hail the size of golf balls.Dust storms and even snow in the ranges.

If you are serious about it then you will have the time of your life. Oz is different, laid back and very outdoor based. The vast majority are very very friendly( sometimes a bit scary if not used to it) and will cordially invite a stranger into their home or buy you a beer (schooner of New) just as a mate would.


Enjoy. save up loadsa money and don't spend too much time in the pub. put another shrimp on the barbie for me.


C ya

Troposurfer