ATPL course FTC

[Jepo]

Hi Guys

I was just wondering if anyone is either booked in or thinking of attending the ATPL package course at FTC of Africa in January. I would be grateful if you have info on there current situation after they have been just bought out. I know there is a lot of bad rumours about the place.

Cheers

[Flying Boat]

I would suggest you wait until the new 'rumoured' owners settle in.

The GS was not well staffed or able to complete certain subjects up to December of last year. Never mind the facilities offered.

Good Luck to the new owners (if true), they need it.:uhoh:

[Send Clowns]

Any idea how they managed to achieve JAR approval if that is the case, FB? Is that approval likely to remain - remember a certain school in the US having approvals withdrawn? There were even threats of a well-known school closer to home losing approvals if it did not get its act together, so these things cannot be taken for granted. Their website is not very forthcoming about their groundschool facilities, and they seem to talk about "CPL ground courses", which makes little sense under JARs.

[campione]

Hi Jepo

I have been seriously looking at FTC for a Jan 2004 start. What attracted me most apart from the lower cost than UK & US courses was that it was the only school in S.A. approved by the UK CAA. This latest rumour/news regarding its takeover is very worrying.

I have been working very hard at working out how to finance this college, together with trying to find teacher positions for my wife. Over the phone, the main guy- Guy Jackson seemed very nice and helpful and very positive. At no time has he let on that the school might be taken over or that they are going through difficulties (not that he would of course!!). He also said that it would be no trouble finding my wife a job and that they would look into it. We have been trying ourselves contacting the schools direct... and I can tell you that it is not as easy as he made out.

One thing has worried me though- because a Jan start was proving to be quite awkward for us (with regard finding work for my wife) I rang up and spoke to someone in the school asking when the next courses for the JAR ATPL licence will start. They were not able to give me any details whatsoever. This was worrying!

I would be grateful if you could share some of your own experiences and news regarding the FTC.

[Flying Boat]

SC

Getting Approval is not that difficult, if what I witnessed is the norm. Paper evidence alone appears to be the approval criteria.

When I was there we had 1 full time instructor, 2 towards the end (one was due to leave after we finished), the part timers sometimes didn't turn up. Staffing figures were allegedly 'massaged'.

Everyone on my course agreed that the GS was the weakest part of FTC.

The panic before a 'visit' was certainly noticable.

FTC are primarily an SA CAA School that do JAR, the SA CPL is their main professional course offered, the JAR students were the cash cows.
The location of the GS, unless now moved, had evening students, mainly South Africans, refusing to go at night for safety reasons, a known area for shootings, allegedly. This by the way is next door to the 'FTC Lodge'.

Once again, good luck to the 'rumoured' new owners.

FB

[campione]

FB

is the GS you mention in your last post in reference to the ATPL theory or all schooling other than the actual flying time?

Why exactly are you saying "good luck" to the new owners? It sounds very much like you are putting off anyone doing their JAR F-ATPL there. Is this the case?- any opinions greatly received, as I am (but now not so sure) seriously looking at this school for doing my JAR F-ATPL!

What did you do after leaving FTC, and what are you doing at the moment?

[Flying Boat]

Campione

I am not going into all the details, but you are right I would NOT recommend anyone to go to FTC for JAR ATPL theory. Yes it was JAR-ATPL theory, for me, but they also offered SA CPL & SA ATPL.

I have learnt that, in the long run, it is only marginally cheaper to go to SA for the study period, I would suggest going to one of the recommended schools in the UK.
Your wife will not earn much money in SA due to the low cost of living, for example a new 2 bedroom house for £24,000, or a jet FO with 3000 hours, about £14,000 a year, from what I was told whilst out there.

Before you commit do a search on PPRUNE for FTC, there have been major discussions about this school. You will learn about them alot. One or two staff & 'Key FTC Players' have contributed as well, but you will see who they are.
I heard a rumour about 2 months ago that the FTC I knew was looking for new investors due to serious cash flow problems, allegedly.

I am now doing my IR, for the fATPL, at Atlantic in Coventry, a very good school, as appeared to be BCFT, Bristol, Westflight & Oxford, when I enquired.

My opinion is save your stress levels & stay here, keep your wife in a UK job & succeed in your studies, whilst studying for the ATPLs you don't need unnecessary pressure & frustration from the training establishment.

Good Luck for the future.

FB

[silverknapper]

Campione

That about sums Guy Jackson up, nice on the face of it. Take it from me He would have taken the cash from you then went under. In the past all JAA cash went to an offshore account. This never went near FTC apparently - if it came into the country it would have been taxed. You only have to do a search to see what you are dealing with here. These things don't change overnight no matter who has bought it. There was only one JAA instructor there a month ago. There is a difference between that and an SA instructor who FTC say can teach JAA. I have several mates who have come back from FTC recently. Not one has yet passed all the writtens, 10 months after starting. And not one would even consider going back to do CPL there.
PM me and I'll pass you more info

[justanotherstat]

I spent six months at FTC doing JAA Groundschool from June to Dec last year. I have now completely finished all my flight training and had no problem passing my exams. The quality of groundschool was good enough although certain issues did effect the regularity of classes. The instructors were good, irrespective of being JAA or SACAA. (Principles of flight are the same wherever you are in the world). I didn't however return to FTC for my commercial as it is indeed a school with problems, and I now believe the cost is not that much less than staying in the uk. I would encourage anyone to go to South Africa as it is such an awesome experience and certainly opens your eyes to the world, though I don't particularly endorse FTC as a company I would get involved with again.

Their accomodation is indeed in a dodgy area of town and the security guards do sit there shooting at shadows on a nighlty basis. After 6 months it became such a regular event we became used it and thought nothing of it, preferring to spend our time in the local pub.

South Africa - thumbs up
FTC - thumbs down

[silverknapper]

Principles of flight may be the same but the training systems certainly are not. JAA has a much more rigid system compared to the SA one and as such has more admin which none of the instructors there seemed to be able to get their head round, they were good at grumbling about it though.

[Token Bird]

It is more than just a rumour. Guy Jackson is out, new management have taken over.

TB

[Send Clowns]

I have been reluctant to reply again, working as I do for the competition. However to give some insider information on the approvals. Each concurrent course run requires 1.7 instructors under the CAA's rules. So for example we generally run 2 courses at a time, requiring 3.4 instructors, and have more than this available. Any school that is not covering this is risking its approvals and in the process your money.

Each instructor not only has to be internally monitored for quality by an approved QA system, but is subject to CAA monitoring at the annual inspection (generally will be the first inspection while the instructor is in the job, as it was for me, and randomly as time is available for any later inspections).

[Moonchester]

I'm actually booked on to the January course, but haven't handed any cash over yet. Infact they already thought I'd paid. I have 2 friends, seniors at BA, and they were taught by Vicky Buxton the CFI. They thought she was wonderful and she's over here at the minute for a meeting with the CAA.

I'm not sure what to do now. Does any one have any suggestions as to where I should do my ground school and exams???

[ECHIE]

Try Aeromac in Valencia, Spain. Excellent weather, good prices and excellent staff!!

I have done my ATPL training in Spain and loved it!!!

For more information contact me at [email protected].

With kind regards,

Theo

I assume from this post and your profile that you are an instructor at the establishment you promote. You should be aware that advertising your school without payment is severely frowned upon at Pprune. You may contact admin1@pprune org for the current advertising rates. Our readers will judge for themselves the integrity of a school that attempts to obtain advertising covertly.

Scroggs

[Flying Boat]

Moonchester

Vicky Buxton's Flying credentials were never in doubt, I know she is an excellent pilot & a very good instructor/examiner.

The top of FTC & morals were.

I heard a rumour that it was sold for 1 Rand.
Not a good advert for the schools previous operators.

My personal opinion is that the new owners should drop JAR & concentrate on SACAA licences, rebuild the reputation that was once there and then re-apply for JAR approval.

I say yet again, good luck to the new owners.:ok:

[ECHIE]

Scroggs,

For your information I am not working at Aeromac as a flight instructor. I am in a holding pool as number one for Aeromadrid to take me. I am at the moment making some hours with a friend of me at this school and I was very surprised at the prices they ask. That´s why my post, to show to people that there are more countries to do your education for cheap, good quality and in a fast time.

Anyway I can understand your reply, it looks like I am making commercial for Aeromac. That´s true; but also I make it for all other schools in Spain.

With kind regards,

Theo

[Flying Boat]

Foud this on the Africa forum, it should help those thinking of going, make up their minds:

neilfraser
Instead of being 'just another number' I could order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
posted 22nd October 2003 19:20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FTC BUY OUT BY ALPINE AVIATION
JUST FOR THE RECORD, I MANAGED TO GET HOLD OF A COPY OF THE FOLLOWING PRESS RELEASE FROM JONATHAN ARTHUR - WHO, I BELIEVE IS THE NEW MD OF ALPINE AND OF THE OLD FTC....... LOOKS LIKE THINGS ARE REALLY LOOKING UP DOWN IN AFRICA. I DID MY JAR PPL (A) THERE AND CANNOT PRAISE THEM HIGHLY ENOUGH. BEEN THROUGH BAD TIMES BUT IT REALLY DOES LOOK LIKE THINGS ARE ON THE UP WHICH IS GREAT NEWS FOR THE INSTRUCTORS WHO STUCK BY THEM THROUGH BAD TIMES. COMPLETE CHANGE OF MANAGEMENT APPEARS TO BE ON THE CARDS. WILL BE INTERESTING TO FOLLOW THEIR PROGRESS IN THE FUTURE. MR. ARTHUR.....IF YOU READ THIS, KEEP US POSTED.



ALPINE AVIATION ACQUISITION OF FLIGHT TRAINING COLLEGE



On the 8th October 2003 an agreement was reached between the present owner of Flight
Training College (FTC) and Alpine Aviation (AA) in which AA has acquired 100% of FTC.

Who are Alpine Aviation? Alpine is a Company that runs a fleet of helicopters which
include Eurocopter S-330 Puma's, Bell 407's, Bell 206 Jet Rangers, Robinson R44's
including a "News-Copter" (Long Ranger) and Robinson R22's catering to the tourist and
executive markets, security transport and escorting of Bullion and High Value Commodities,
contract Charter and Vehicle Tracking (the largest account being Netstar). Alpine also
boasts an excellent Helicopter Training School with their Instructors being some of the
most experienced in South Africa who are dedicated to providing the highest levels of
training at all times. The most innovative and state of the art training aids available
in the country are employed at Alpine Helicopter Training School and the in-house training
manual has been developed over many years. It is a unique manual that enables students to
gain the maximum benefits possible during all stages of the training syllabus, together
with the computer based training and video footage of a

The intention of Alpine is therefore to turn FTC into one of the worlds most successful
JAR approved schools by ensuring that the fleet of aircraft are brought online as soon as
possible and that all the Administrative and Accounting systems are totally revamped to
the standards which Alpine Aviation expects from an institution such as FTC, with the
inclusion of establishing a Student Trust Account with a firm of Lawyers/Solicitors so
that students will be assured that their funds will be looked after safely. New premises
for the ground school are presently being re-located which will be purpose built for JAR
compliance. In time Instructors will be recruited from both South Africa and overseas
from the most experienced staff.

What does this mean for future students? Well the good news for students from around the
world is that the benefits of joining the two companies will be felt by including the JAR
fixed wing approval to include helicopter training as well.

There is the choice of 20 aircraft to choose from for both dual and solo time.

Students will have peace of mind by depositing funds into a Student Trust Account, which
will be administered by a firm of Attorneys/Solicitors.

The latest Training methods, Technology and Systems will become available.

On site maintenance with the College's own workshop on site, which will necessitate
minimum downtime, with the objective of doing a substantial amount of the work at night,
thus inconveniencing Students as little as possible.

New premises are being negotiated for both the ground and flight school, which are being
purpose built, in terms of JAR specifications.

Students will have a choice of accommodation ranging from the very basic to the more
luxurious, which will allow those Students doing short courses to bring their partners
with them should they wish and use the opportunity to visit other parts of South Africa by
Helicopter or by other modes of transport.

It is anticipated to add the Alpine name to the training college and as things progress we
will keep you informed on developments at the college on a regular basis.



J.G. ARTHUR
ALPINE AVIATION

DATE : 14/10/2003



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:ok:

[Send Clowns]

Fast time, ECHIE? How come Spanish schools advertise 24-month courses? An extra year represents a lot of lost earnings, would have to be a very cheap school to be worthwhile!

Good news about the take over if FTC was a failing school :ok: