eagle jet - paying for A320 type rating and 500hrs line experience

[ACE!!!(ventura?)]

Hello

I have a question for all of you out there.
I'm newly graduated from a flight school and currently hold a frozen ATPL license with only 230 flight hours.
The market nowadays is pretty hard for us new ones ao in order to get a shot at a job I was thinking of bying myself an A320 type rating and 500 hrs line experience on type.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this, is it a good way to hopefully get a job in the future? Any comments are most welcome, as this is a very expensive way to try to get a job I need to have inputs from those already in the business.
Also, does anyone know anything about a company in the States that is called Eaglejet, or a flight school in Spain that is currently holding type rating courses on the A320, it is called Aeromadrid?


Hope to hear from you all :)

[Bullet Tooth Tony]

Do I have any thoughts?

Yes. You have too much money!

[trium16]

http://66.155.6.21/EagleJet/

for those interested in parting with a lot of money


PS.Saw on the site....

Boeing 737-300 and 700 including JAA Type Rating

300 hours

38,900 British Pounds

Line Exp, JAA Type Rating, Base Check and JAA Line Check
*Requirement: JAA Frozen ATPL with MCC


This seems interesting, is it with a UK operator? If so, it is slightly worrying however, as if they are allowing a broker to advertise this it implies profit is their main reasoning. It could only be one of a few (who operates both 733/73-7?)

[Anti Skid On]

I'm glad they hid this thread, because Ace they'd string you up for even suggesting working for free, never mind paying for a type rating. PS, can you lend me the money to finish my CPL?

[Unwell_Raptor]

"This seems interesting, is it with a UK operator? If so, it is slightly worrying however, as if they are allowing a broker to advertise this it implies profit is their main reasoning. It could only be one of a few (who operates both 733/73-7?)"

Profit?

In aviation?

How dare they?

[G SXTY]

[sound of can of worms being opened]

[Dockjock]

Thoughts? Ya, its a job if you get paid for it, otherwise you're no better than a weekend warrior hobby-pilot. Go home little boy.

[onehunga]

I would have thought doing the multi turbine time (Beech 1900 was on their website) would get you further up the ladder without you having to spend huge amounts of cash on jet time. It would still make you marketable and reduce the risk of you applying to an airline and having to either redo a type rating to their standard or worse still not be considered as they might form an opinion that your training wasn't up to scratch. It would also eliminate the risk of you ending up with say a 737 type rating when the market may be wanting airbus or ATR as an example.

[Easy Glider]

It's people who buy type ratings and fly for free that F**K the industry up for EVERYONE including themselves!!!!! wait your turn for a job like everyone else had to.

[trium16]

Absolutely, some of us struggled the hard way. I'm still in mega debt and can't even afford a pint (seriously!)

I agree, it f*cks it up for the rest of us, and in the long term it ain't a good thing.

G SXTY was right... this is a real contentious issue !!

[strafer]

A Ventura - never admit you've got more money than sense on this website, there's loads of little bolsheviks just waiting to burn your petit beorgouis house down.

To the 'It f***s it up for the rest of us' posters- ah, diddums. You might not be aware that there are many other wannabe pilots who are doing the training because it's what they want to do. Whether you can get a job or not, is not something that keeps them awake at night.

[onehunga]

It always amuses me when this debate arises. Haven't yet seen any positive action being spoken about to arrest the so called "injustices" in the industry of pilots paying for their training or type ratings. Guess it is easy to vent steam on a bulletin board but too hard to pull finger and change the way the industry is heading in real life. So if all those easyjet, flybe or ryanair (et al)pilots out there really care then what about positive strike action. In fact BA pilots should go on strike too and call for reinstatement of the full sponsorship scheme.

Oh, but hold on the airlines might go out of business from lack of cash due to the flight cancellations. Oh well nice idea in theory. Back to the drawing board!

[Easy Glider]

Strafer....

Have a job thanks very much. Have had for over ten years, now on 757/767. Never ever prostituted myself by paying for a type rating or flying for free.

Whatever you say, these people do as I said before f**k the industry for EVERYONE including themselves and including YOU!!!

[strafer]

Easy glider,

Either you think that anyone who has ever paid a penny towards any aspect of their flight training is 'prostituting themselves', or you're talking nonsense.

I really can't be bothered to get into the same arguments appearing on every second Wannabes thread, but market, supply, demand.

Viva la revolucion,
Strafer

[buttline]

Ace,
Bet you got more than you bargained for - welcome to PPRUNE!

It is worth considering all options - I considered this one myself but was very reluctant and fortunately I've just got my first jet job so didn't have to do it. It can be done!!

Points to consider:-

40k gbp is a lot of money to BURN. It's not like buying a Porsche where you'll get 80-90% of the money back - you're really SPENDING the money - it's not really an investment - it's gone. And on a pilots salary, you'll never get it back. I think you really need to have a net worth of at least 500K GBP to justify blowing 10% of your net worth on something like this. (Extra 10k is because you have to live for the 6 months as well!) To justify this, as well as having the cash, I think you need to be an older wannabee as well. If you're under 35, what's the rush? - wait for the upturn or do instructing, try the CTC ATP scheme etc.

Apart from the money - other issues are:- Are Eaglejet trustworthy?, what's the airline that you'll line train with like?, are they a well-respected JAR airline, what legal recourse do you have if things go wrong. Also, once you've been flying for a year or two and the initial thrill is wearing off, you may feel like a schmuck for having spent so much money for the privellege of getting up at 4am to fly beered up blokes to Malaga!

Apart from the practical/money issues - you can see from some of the responses that many senior pilots really look down on this sort of thing as undermining the T&Cs for all pilots. I agree to an extent but think that market forces are just too big for any communal sense of morality to counter - when things pick up again, market forces will again put schemes like this on the back burner until the next recession. HOWEVER, you may find you are on the other side of the table at an interview with a captain who holds such a viewpoint - something else to think about..

Basically my thoughts are go for it if you:-

a) Know you are good and will pass
b) Are satisfied you have legal protection for your money
c) Have a very high net worth
d) Are over 35

otherwise, it doesn't make sense IMHO - good luck.

[Easy Glider]

Strafer...... Of course, you know far more about this than I do. After all, you've been involved with this industry for what,? a whole ten seconds? Where as I have only been in it for ten years!

[strafer]

Or maybe you know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

If you'd read the original post, you would have realised that he was asking for opinions, there are no hard facts that you 'know' that can answer his question definitively.

And talking of questions, you didn't answer mine...

[ACE!!!(ventura?)]

I know this is a touchy subject for many.
I must say I was a bit dissapointed of some of you that posted a reply to this....!! I love flying and that is what I want to do for the rest of my life, what I need now is to get me a job. I know that this is as far from the best solution you can get but if it is my only chance I will not hessitate to use it. Metallica had a song "sad but true" and I think these words fits this part of the industry very well! And for those of you that thought I had to much money, well I don't if I'm going to do this I have to take up a bank loan for the total amount.

Buttline:
Thank you for your response, it gave me a few new things to think about before commiting to this scheme. Hopefully there can be some more replies like yours :)

[Mascalzone78]

I don't understand you guys, most of you are writing that is no right, that Ace should wait but for WHAT!!
I hold a frozen ATPL 250 hrs and I don't work and probably I'll never work because in this moment the airlines are in deep s**t
or they realized that is more convenient for them let the young graduate "stupid" Pilots (like me) to pay for their training end teir experience.
I think that we shuld be helped from a Pilots Union because this is no the pilots fault but the money anger airlines fault.
I tell you that if doing an Eagle jet program will garantee me a job I would increase my debit and do it, but there is nothing safe.
thanks

[number]

Eage Jet huh?
You can find some interesting info by searching some past messages in this board, and personally some time ago I wanted to start a FO program with Egle Jet, then for some personal reasons I couldn't do it. Some time ago I had a response from a marketing information company concerning Eagle Jet: "The subject have been sued several times for non-payment of services goods.( name of plaintiffs and lawsuite types included )
For this reason we are unable to make a credit recommendation for 10,000 USD"
-Eagle Jet is a company consists of 3 employees.
-The flight school is in the U.S. but the training takes place in the eastern europe.....
-the president uses to call his customers personally to know if they are still interested in his program...
-In order to take part to the program your resume has to be selected...fine but it always turn to be selected at the end.
-He would never give you the name of the companies through which you will eventually do your line training....

[Julian]

yeah people get touchy on this but dont really see the problem, if you look back at industry in general its always been around but been disguised before under such things as

- Work experience.
- YTS.
- Job placement.
- Gap years.

to name a few....

The way the industry is at the moment if someone can increase their chances of getting a job by gaining some time on type they will do it. Just as goes on in just about every other industry, a company will hire, say, students, over a skilled employee if they can undertake the same role but for a lot less money - its a fact of life, some are placed with companies through colleges and get no pay what-so-ever maybe a vague promise of a job at the end of it.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Julian and Strafer,

You are pushing agendas and attitudes on this thread but have provided not one iota of useful information. Button it. There is someone, along with others, seriously considering spending - not investing - spending a collosal sum of money which isn't yours.

Before continuing posting on this thread front up with your qualifications to pontificate. I've got 28 years flying experience, have run this site for 8 years, have never taken a penny from a wannabees training. You will also note that I sign posts with my real name.

Every one note: Not one, single, positive response from anyone having dealings with this company.

Only 'buttline,' on the previous page, has offered concise and thought through suggestions and guidance. On this page only 'number' has shown the results of simple, basic research.

For all readers still waiting for that first job and unable to afford a pint. I know you're sick of promises of jam tomorrow but let's get something absolutely straight.

It is the last gasp for these schemes to draw in good caliber newbies. They will always be around to lure the inept, the hopeless and the lazy. There is an absolute crisis in getting good, competent left seaters. It's not impending - it is right now!! 100% fact - not opinion. It is percolating through the industry and the first effects are already becoming apparent to those of you keeping your ears to the ground.

Let it be clearly understood, anyone posting positive views on such schemes without us knowing them is under the closest of critical scrutiny by us.

One more time team - read the big red warning at the bottom of the page.

In case you hadn't guessed I'm extremely pissed off with loudmouths who appear to have been in or on the periphery of the business for 10 minutes. You are going to be interviewed by senior people who went through exactly the same grind and misery as you. They understand and they're looking closely at you and your attitude.

Regards
Rob Lloyd

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Just my two cents on type ratings...

Some people will pay for it, some wont. I respect their choices.

In my opinion an Airline Pilot career should be a progressive one.

You can´t expect once your qualified to get a type rating and jump straight into LH seat. there is more to that than just a type rating...

[englishal]

The airline industry is not the only industry where "paying to put yourself ahead" occours. I put myself through university and came out penniless, with no promise of a job, even though I have a degree. I had to pay for numerous additional courses out of my own pocket to put me ahead of other people and in the end it landed me a decent, but very boring job.

For the record I have also sponsored my own flying, probably 30,000 pounds worth (plus lost earnings), and tomorrow I have my CPL check ride, so fingers crossed by tomorrow evening I'll have a CPL ME IR. This isn't just a whim either, I am making a serious effort to enter the commercial world, which is why within the next month I am taking my Instrument instructors, flight instructors and multi engine instructors tickets (all paid for myself).

I have considered doing the Eagle Jet 500hr turbine time, and know a bloke who is doing it. If by doing this I can further my aviation career and put myself ahead of the rest of the competition then so be it. I am 34, didn't go to OAT, paid for every hour myself while holding down a full time job, and even after this I appreciate that the aviation world doesn't owe me a living.

My advice to the thread originator is, if you can do these 500 hrs, then do it, but be careful with regards to parting with your money up front.

It is a sad state of affairs that a prospective pilot has to pay for 'experience' but it is a fact of industry in general. Training costs are higher in aviation, but also the rewards are much higher.

EA

[flaps to 60]

Ace

There is a phrase i've heard used in Ireland which is F**K the Begrudgers.

If you want to do it then DO IT....but carefully. Investigate the pros and the cons the good and the bad of this company and programme then make your OWN decision with some advice from good friends and family or partner because they will all be involved to some degree.

I myself considered this programme and like yourself i would have to have mortgaged everything on top of the £50,000+ odd that has already been spent......Why? Well because i want to fly and would do anything to be in the position of some of these begrudgers to make my own mind up as to whether or not it was worth it.

But also, take note of those who are preaching about waiting as i did (6 years) and now have a job. But at the end of the day it's about your patience versus the waiting gamble.

As for those who simply couldn't give someone who's trying to get started a reasonable answer then please answer this.

If you are a captain would you have treated a member of cabin crew or your F/O like this when they asked your advice and if so do you deserve those four stripes.

If you are an F/O then will you ever earn them if thats the way you treat people when they need help and wise guidance.

Good luck ACE and may the good side of the force be with you.:ok:

[Julian]

Towers,

I dont see what your problem is. If Ace wantsa to spend money to further his career then let him, if it puts him ahead of the game then good luck to him is what I say. I have no agenda pushing Eagle Jet or any other scheme for that matter and after re-reading my post I cannot even see how you drew the fact I have an agenda pushing them! I try and stay as objective as I can when replying to something, as I am sure you would realise if you had checked my postings on this site before posting a response such as you did. :*

I have spent a "collosal sum of money which isn't yours" as well, somewhere in the region of £25k as well at last count, every hour in my logbook I have paid for out of my own pocket, no sponsorship, no bursarys, no students paying for hours whilst I instruct them, etc. I do know the value of money and investment so please dont treat me as if I dont!

As I said the fact that people will pay to further their career is not new, maybe it has just reached aviation.

I have been in my industry(outside aviation) for 15 years and its helping me pay towards my career of flying but to bring it home to you I paid £4500 a few weeks ago for a 5 day course. Was this to advance my career - No! It was actually to be able to carry on doing what I am doing, if I had not done I would have been out of the job and the flying would have ben put on hold as well. As other posters have said, if you want to join one of these scheme to get some time in your logbook then go for it, but be careful which schemes you go for and as has been said in countless previous threads on here, if they demand all the money up front then pick up your bags and run a mile!

Finally, Julian is my real name - if you dont like then take the situation up with my mother as she picked it :O I am currently about to complete my CPL if all goes well. If you have any further issues with me then please feel free to PM me with any more questions as I have nothing to hide and will quite happily answer anything you want to ask.

Julian.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Hmmmm, stirred up a few replies but let's review them for useful content:cool: :cool:

Ah well, very close to zero just as I said previously. 'english al' came closest but no cigar I'm afraid.

Al manages to let us know he has a mate doing a course but sadly absolutely zero information regarding service , actual costs versus promised cost. Location of training, the authority it comes under, it's transferal to a UK or other licence and its course quality seems strangely absent. Critically and, for a working professional, the most important question of all - one which the new and naive would never dream of asking.

What licence or validation is required, organised and assured for you to be able to fly for an eastern european operator?

The same applies to many other supposedly JAA countries let alone the rest of the world. What about visas? - they are the bane of our lives as professional aviators working on contracts which effectively is what this scheme is.

Have a look at the replies above this post again. They are merely self justification for an attitude, an agenda. Namely - 'If I have to pay out more to get ahead I will...... err, maybe, if I can afford it, possibly. umm, actually if you have a go I might but I definitely believe in it as a principle unless I get a call for a real job interview that is.'

No one on this thread has put their money where their mouth is. No one is speaking from experience of any one of these schemes. Their absence speaks volumes.

But consider this. Imagine you can borrow the money, the course is entirely safe and of high quality. How long have you effectively opted out of the recruitment merry go round? A year?? Meanwhile a glance at the partner forum to this shows people swapping notes on interviews they're being called for. The market is moving and our pushers of pay your way to the top are in actuality recommending taking yourself out of the system for a significant period. At last, when jobs are finally about which, while bonded, don't actually cost you anything, we still have the rump of the pay as you goers pushing their ideas.

If you think its a good idea fill your boots lads but don't post that alone. Without useful information for the likeminded you're wasting our bandwidth and makes it appear you're just trying to convince yourself as much as others. It makes you look like you're trying to produce a critical mass of folks falling for it as happened with MCC and other non required follow on courses.

Those new to the forum may have wondered why there is so llittle input from experienced working pilots - by that I mean 3 or more years in the business. 20,000 plus visit the site each day so you wannabees are just a little out numbered. It's quite simply frustration, annoyance and embarrassment at what passes for debate here. The embarrassment lies in the awful realisation that they were exactly the same when they knew nothing about the realities of the profession.

On occasion a grownup has to step in - this is one of those moments.

Now before composing yet another withering reply to my epistle would you please miss out the paragraphs regarding all you've given up and how much you spent. That is a given in this business. The Weshman and I have repeatedly demonstrated over the years that yours are the cheapest licences ever in the history of the industry. We will rub it in your faces if you persist.

Why??? Because those interviewing you went through the same processes, made the same sacrifices and paid far more than you did. They don't like a whining attitude. They don't select 'I want it on a platers.' Bright eyed, enthusiastic, positive, and current is what they want. Not those already thinking of the first job move they can to service huge debts.

Regards
Rob

[Flypuppy]

The Welshman and I have repeatedly demonstrated over the years that yours are the cheapest licences ever in the history of the industry.

Are they really? :confused:

JAA Frozen ATPL:

Modular Route
PPL (in UK) Approx £ 4,000
Hour building (US/SA) Approx £ 13,000
ATPL Groundschool Approx £ 3,000 (inc exam fees)
CPL Approx £ 6500 (inc ME Rating and fees)
Instrument Rating Approx £ 14,000
Living Costs for 10 months £ 8-10,000
Total £ 48,500 - 50,500

All costs are approximate, best to add at least 20% to the total to take into account unforeseen circumstances (crap wx, resits etc etc) £58,200 - 60,600

Integrated Route
£ 65,000 - 95,000 at a guess.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Yes they are FP. The Welshman went back to approved courses in 1991 - to be absolutely clear and specific: Prestwick the school now known as Jerez. The figures are still on the forum and are substantially higher - very substantially.

Going back to the mid eighties, the era many of your interviewers will stem from, the costs were a good 25% higher and it was even more for the IR. Using 1988 as a baseline the IRs at AFT in Coventry over a 4 month period went from a minimum of £2,300 ( a guy who already had 500 twin hours and got 1st time pass in minimum time and needed no sim) to a maximum of £7500 in one case. Real life costs not advertised prices. I'd like you to assume you're also a hot shot and have a look at £2300 adjusted for 15 years of inflation. Alternatively use the wonders of the internet and have a look at what the same sum bought you in car showroom.

You might at the same time look at what £60,000 bought you in the housing markets of 1988 (a legendary price peak) and 1991 (an equally legendary bottom of the market) respectively. A substantial house in the home counties of England was yours.

All this is by the by though. Still no posts from anyone who will talk about one of these schemes from experience. This is puzzling as they've been around since the 1920's - yes you've read that correctly.

Regards
Rob

[englishal]

Al manages to let us know he has a mate doing a course but sadly absolutely zero information regarding service , actual costs versus promised cost. Location of training, the authority it comes under, it's transferal to a UK or other licence and its course quality seems strangely absent. Critically and, for a working professional, the most important question of all - one which the new and naive would never dream of asking.
No I didn't, I met a bloke flying in the US a couple of weeks ago who was on the scheme. British bloke, JAA ATPL'd up and he was paying something like $20 per hour in a B1900. Thats all I know, he had researched it and seemed to think it would benefit his career.

I don't know anything about the service, it is obviously something I'd research very carefully before entering into a deal. My point was that if one can afford to do this then be careful, research it and do it if it will benefit your career. My other point is that if your airline career has stagnated, get off your arse and do something about it rather than bitch at people who have had an idea how to improve their career. You cannot realistically expect to exit a fATPL course with 250hrs, and land a RHS job, and you certainly shouldn't expect to just becasue you went to a well known school.....just like a university graduate expecting to paid 90,000 a year just because they come out with a degree. In the real world this doesn't happen.

Anyway, off for my cigar and Bacardi 151 now, I passed my CPL ME IR check ride so can now consider myself a proffessional Pilot :D

Cyer
EA

[PPRuNe Towers]

Congratulations Al - a special day for each of us. Savour every moment.

Rob

[englishal]

Cheers Rob ....................................:D

[jetjockey696]

Englishal congratulations. Welcome the crazy, dizzy world of a commercial pilot.... many fortunes ahead.

[strafer]

I've read through my previous posts and I'm still struggling to see what 'agenda' I'm alledgedly pushing. My posts were simply a response to the 'go home little boy' and the 'you're f****** it up for the rest of us' comments from the wannabes who expect everything on a platter.

Someone may have slightly less experience than the Wright Brothers and everything from a Spifire to Concorde in their log book. They may win Moderator of the Year and the respect and admiration of their cronies. That won't necessarily stop them from posting arrogant ****e.

[PPRuNe Towers]

strafer, I did bother to review your posts across the site before my original post.

Your views were especially noticeable after reminding myself of your very strong opinions on not paying up front for anything and the 'usurers' lending money to wannabees. I'm pretty certain you're one of very few who've trotted out that word in context on this site.......

A Ventura - never admit you've got more money than sense on this website, there's loads of little bolsheviks just waiting to burn your petit beorgouis house down.

To the 'It f***s it up for the rest of us' posters- ah, diddums. You might not be aware that there are many other wannabe pilots who are doing the training because it's what they want to do. Whether you can get a job or not, is not something that keeps them awake at night.

If that isn't an agenda - do what you want, spend what you want, ignore all others - I don't know what is. In itself that's not a problem and we'd never dream of commenting. However, when you're preaching it regarding these long running crap schemes we step in. We step in because you're vocally adding to the weight of opinion supporting schemes you admit you know absolutely nothing about.

However, they are things that I do know about. They are things that, like the Guvnor, we are involved in assisting the police and prosecutors in bringing charges.

I'm happy for the forum readers to come to their own judgement regarding arrogance quotients.

I'm equally happy for them to continue thinking through why with over 20,000 ATPL's using the site each day they don't bother to assist you on this part of the site.

Finally, 9 days after the original request for help and 40,000 plus per day reading the site there still isn't a single first or even second hand tale from a 'graduate' of one of these schemes. Surely even a fearsome, freeminded, freespeaking libertarian such as yourself can draw the conclusion most others have? Or do you think we at the Towers should stand by and support your Darwinian appproach to jobs. Let the terminally inexperienced and naive simply spend their way right out of the job market and make more room for the older guys?

There's a certain rugged ruthlessness to it I must admit we have to grudgingly admire:uhoh: :uhoh:
Regards
Rob

[strafer]

Nice hyperbole My LLoyd, you have a way with words I'll give you that.

I'll try to be brief...
1) Now I understand - what you call an agenda, I would just call an opinion. I'm fully prepared to admit to what I don't know, which is why I didn't express an opinion of the pros and cons of Eagle Jet (although it does sound like an utter waste of money to my inexperienced eyes). However, my opinions on this thread and others were expressed at the fairly substantial number of my potential collegues who think that there is a certain level to which you should pay for your own training, but any forking out of money after that is somehow 'letting the side down'. My opinion could be summed up as 'Life isn't always fair and if you want to be a pilot in the current climate, then you have to do whatever it takes'. I wouldn't have thought that differed drastically from most other wannabes, stillis's or hasbeens.
2) Fearsome, freeminded and freespeaking as I am - I will try and help others if I have the knowledge. If someone still goes ahead and wastes their money on unnecessary training after big-brained chaps such as yourself have told them not to, I shan't tell them otherwise.
3) Use of the word usurious - 'twas a tongue-in-cheekish swipe at the banks, who whilst happy to help you through your training, will obviously want their pound of flesh at the end. Won't stop me using them if I have to though, and hats off to HSBC who at least seem to know there is such a thing as commercial aviation training. I would obviously never use the word usurious in real life, as no one I know would have a clue what it meant.
4) Moderators take this BB and their roles within it far too seriously. Fact? No just my opinion (sorry, 'agenda'). I appreciate the work you've put in to make this the best aviation site around (IMHA) but chill Bobbyboy, chill.

Not brief, but never mind.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Strafer - anti hyperbole mode go

I made mention of your post because it was out of character with regards to the other posts you've made. Very occasionally asking for help but far more often offering it. You're older than most of the wannabees, have an earning capacity apparently equal to or greater than that of a low cost airline skipper and have previously written warnings or criticism regarding banks, paying up front and the dangers of hot tea bags:uhoh:

Your post stood out for those reasons but most especially because you've detailed and given links on exactly how to check up on (UK) companies in the past. No such advice, even generic, this time - it was strangely uncritical when discussing £30,000 plus sums of money.

Rob

[buttline]

Finance 101

Assuming a 10% average annual return on your investment (not unrealistic if into property / stocks for the long haul), 50,000 GBP invested today would return you 872,470 in 30 years.

Of course, inflation would take a chunk out of it but, if inflation stays at current levels, it'll still be a hefty sum.

100,000 GBP (fATPL + Eaglejet scheme) in 30 years would be worth 1,744,940 GBP....

Fair enough, if you really want the dream you have to spend the first 50k to be in the game - but blowing (or borrowing!!) another 50k before trying every possible other avenue is, frankly, not too bright unless you have a lot of money and won't miss it. Send out CVs, instructing, networking, CTC ATP scheme - there are lots of avenues to try. I know 8 low-hours pilots who got jet jobs in the last few weeks at three different operators.

You have to remember that 100k is not a lot of money if you are talking about getting a mortgage for a house. However, a house appreciates in value. Flying training is NOT, NOT a financial investment - you could probably earn the same money in another industry - it's spending money for something you want to do. Nothing wrong with that but don't set yourself up for unhappiness in the future by borrowing anything but the minimum you have to.

Anyone who wants to play with compound interest rates, lookup the FV (Future Value) function in Excel Help.


Regarding the Eaglejet scheme -

According to Stephane (Eaglejet) they have links with airlines in Prague, Istanbul and Scandanavia. I understand from someone else the A320 line training may be offered in Portugal. Of course, which airlines they are is not easy to find out. Eaglejet direct UK pilots to Astraeus / Bond for the 737 Type Rating and Gecat for the A320 and say they don't make money on this portion - only commission on the line training apparently. I believe them as they are happy if you get your own TR from whoever and just buy the line training from them.

Providing Eaglejet (and the airlines they use) check out as legitimate, I don't see why this scheme is any different in principle to Astraues offering 100hrs line training - they are just offering a more useful amount of hours - at least you'd be able to unfreeze your fATPL. Building hours by instructing is not everyone's cup of tea and 500hrs on this route is half the cost of piston twin time.

[African Drunk]

I often think the problem is where do you draw the line on paying for flying, would you be prepared to work for free for 3 years because you would be well paided as a captain. Some of us will remember the problem US pilots had ten years back when the only way to get into companies was to pay to fly as an FO for a couple of years. It has taken many years for US pilots to rectify that situation.

I have been qualified for 5 years and know the frustration of seeing ex-pupils and friends moving into jets by paying for various schemes but I still believe it is not good for the future of the industry.

Instructing is much maligned but this led me onto bush flying then air taxi then IR instructing then Turbines and if you put in the work you will get there. Also will you ever recover the money you spend? Probably not and as the number of people who will spend the money on shortcuts increase, the salaries and benefits will decrease.

[Julian]

Whoo, after 4 hours with an examiner today I finally passed my Multi CPL IR.

I can now call myself an Unemployed Commercial Pilot (Whinge Whinge :O )

[number]

Sorry guys,
Better keep that conversation private, it's acutally OT and we were talking about eagle jet & dream TR+line experience deals...

[AIRWAY]

Hi buttline,

Only 2 Airlines in Portugal do have Airbuses they are TAP - Air Portugal and Air Luxor, and as far as i am aware none of them provide line training for Eagle Jet.

[Hulk Hogan]

Just a note from me, I have never paid for a type rating and never will reason being is that a couple of my friends paid for a type rating on a jet and still can't get any work on one, what they are doing now is paying a airline lots of money to fly to stay current. What you get is this airline getting flight crews to fly their jets and the crews paying them to work, all that happens is that the crews who are paying to work get further and further into debt and the airline just keeps collecting the money.

Another point is that one of the major uk airlines took on a couple of people who self financed a type rating during this year and they failed to make the grade once they were employed, as a result the chief pilot said they would no longer take on anyone who self financed a type rating.

Just be positive the market is improving all the time and soon you will get there without having to part with more money e.g. Britannia are recruiting along with other airlines and they are paying for the training.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

[cleared24right]

This is the way i see it, I have spent around 40K on getting my frozen ATPL and have 240 hours (went modular), therefore say i was to opt and do a type rating around 17-18K (not from a bank loan) that would have cost me a total of 57-58K probably the same amount as going intergrated, AND I have a 73 on my licence.

Now, considering I did not go to uni, did my A Levels and went straight into flying (now 21) I am not really qualified to do anything else other than fly, so i am working at the moment on around 14K + a bit of bonus, soon my loan will be up for re-paying. The way I see it is that if i spend the amount on the rating and it pushes me up in the way of a job, then I will be hopefully on a salary in the region of 28-29K and can afford to get my own property and pay off my loan. So really i don't see that much of an option.

However i am open to suggestions.

Cheers.



Just my 2 penneth! ;)

[redsnail]

Well,
If you are 21 why don't you go and see the world? There are countries that do take the low hour guys that have a bit of "get up and go" in them. Get some experience, have a laugh and come back to the UK with a few thousand hours under your belt and be employable.

Folks, it's all about finding the market, looking outside the box and creating opportunities.