Full time ATPL ground school

[Aerofoil]

If money was no object.....
Which training organisation, in your opinion, has the best full time ATPL ground school (JAA)?

Cheers
Dave

[no sponsor]

Money doesn't need to be an object for groundschool.

The most you can pay is pretty insignificant compared to the flying training aspect. The most I ever saw it advertised was on BAe website (under the modular part) where they quoted in the region of £7K when converted at todays exchange rate; but I don't think they ever offered it as a standalone modular course, since dates were always marked as TBD.

In the region of £5.5K is about the most expensive I've seen.

[prat100_2000]

OAT is around 5.5 I think, and I have seen positive things said about it on other threads. Great facilities, look into flying aspect though heard negative about OAT. I also had a chat with a line pilot who did Bristol ground and couldn't rec. it enough. Let me know what you get feedback wise as I'm in the same position.

Cheers

[Alex Whittingham]

You won't go wrong if you choose either Oxford (OAT), Aviation Training Associates (ATA) or Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training (BCFT). The difference between them is not particularly one of training quality but more how you are treated as a student. ATA and BCFT tend to have slightly older students on second career paths, dress is casual, instructors wear civvies. OAT tend to have younger students and provide a more regimented course.

[Send Clowns]

Thank you, Alex. Interesting to hear comment on ATA, as I have seen little independent comment on them here. Just a slight correction. The instructors and staff at BCFT do wear uniform, it has recently been formalised as a required dress code. You are right that although the students are encouraged to be smart there is no uniform.

Hope all is still well in Bristol. May pop in to see you sometime, as I am often in the city now!

Send Clowns
Navigation/Flight Planning instructor, BCFT

[FlyingForFun]

Alex beat me to it.

However, I'd like to add something. When I was thinking of choosing a groundschool, I got some excellent advice from Send Clowns. (SC - not sure I ever really thanked you properly for that!) At the time, he was an unemployed groundschool instructor, and in the perfect position to give me completely impartial advice.

If you're looking for a residential course, then you could do a lot worse than listen to Alex. He's in the business, probably knows it as well as anyone, but since his school doesn't offer a residential course any advice he gives will be about as impartial as it gets.

But his point about different styles of school, and the fact that they attract different types of student, is the main thing - go with whichever one makes you feel most comfortable.

Good luck!

FFF
-------------

[moo]

Alex, what are the hurdles for Bristol Groundschool and Bristol flying centre to offering a full-time integrated course?

[Alex Whittingham]

Mostly cost and facilities. I reckon a full-time course would have to be priced around £5500 minimum to avoid losing money, I think that puts a lot of people off and means the market is quite small. It would also mean we'd need extra classrooms and problably twice as many instructors. If you saddle yourself with high fixed costs in an uncertain market which is already quite well served you often go bust. viz PPSC and others.

[Aerofoil]

Thanks for the helpful advice guys.

One of our first officers was telling me yesterday that Cabair also do a full time gs course.
Would you also put Cabair on the same shelf as OAT, ATA and BCFT?

thanks in advance
Dave

[Send Clowns]

It was a pleasure, FFF. I was very pleased with how well it went for you at Bristol.

[Keygrip]

Well - what a refreshing change.

It has never ceased to amaze me how vicious and nasty "schools" are to each other - rather than working with each other to the common good of the student (and, therefore, the training industry).

This is something that I've been trying to get schools to do for over 15 years. If one place needs an facility of some sort for a short time, and another has spare capacity - why not share the resources and help each other out (without their own political or financial self promotion).

There is enough 'work' to go around, and the students will gravitate towards those establishments that offer the best service....not the ones that deliberately, and savagely, attack each other.

It's even more refreshing to read it here, on Pprune - when so many of the members write their own glowing reports under multiple pseudonyms.

Good work guys - keep it up.

[PA-28 CLOUD SURFER]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if anybody has any feedback from the EPTA in bournemouth. Send Clowns you are based in Bournemouth, what is your view on this organisation as a full groundschool course?

thanks

[IndiaTango]

The course at London Met Uni is cool - good value for money, wicked staff and it's intensive enough doing the subjects in 3 sittings, I'd hate to be doing them all in just 2 as at the other schools!!

[Send Clowns]

I did try to keep the thing as pleasant as possible. I am genuinely sorry to see this thread go downhill. It could not last. :(

I also tried to avoid direct advertising.

[Pete Lines]

I agree with SEND CLOWNS that Keith Williams has successfully achieved free advertising. It has just cost ATA several hundred pounds to insert a brief advert on Wannabes - any chance of a refund Danny?

[scroggs]

Clowns, stop whining. Which way shoud we interpret your comment: Can't comment on the management/admin without risking comments in response of the sort that surfaced in the months after SFT's demise. if not as a camouflaged dig at EPTA's management? You reap what you sow, son!

We agreed with you that Keith Williams had unreasonably attempted to get some free advertising. The whole thread was removed by a mod who didn't have time to do the necessary adjustments. These were later done by Danny, and the thread re-inserted in a form that the Pprune management believe is acceptable.

Scroggs

[scroggs]

My, you did get out of bed the wrong side this morning, didn't you? And you seem to have developed an inflated sense of your own importance. It may dismay you to learn that I do not hang on your every word and therefore past threads that you might feel define your existence have long since been emptied from my memory's recycle bin.

I will 'presume' whatever I want, Clowns, and to me - and many other readers - your comment appears as an implication that there are skeletons in the cupboard. As you have, on many, many occasions, I reacted to the perceived meaning of your post. If your post didn't mean what it seems to mean, then bloody well go back and change it.

Now, I'm off to B&Q, where I can hopefully get some intelligent conversation from grown-ups.

Scroggs

[HandspringGuy]

Alex,

I am currently studying at Cabair, Cranfield. I am doing the integrated course and have just finished the ground school.

When I was in your position I looked at a lot of different schools and narrowed the search down to OAT and Cabair. I chose Cabair on the Ground-school and I have to say I think I made the right choice. The instructors are fantastic. I can't praise them enough. They are all highly-experienced and it makes a big difference when you are told something by someone who has 'been there, done that, got the Tshirt'.
PofF, Performance, etc are taught by ex-pilots; Nav, etc by ex-navigators and technical subjects are covered by ex-Flight engineers. The thing I found reasuring was that you could literally ask any question on any topic and be guaranteed an indepth answer.
Most of the instructors are passionate about getting the students through the course and are more than happy to help outside school hours.

Where students I have spoken to from other schools seem to have relied somewhat on feedback questions, I have a good grounding in all of the subjects and it was this that got me through the exams.

If you want my advice come here.

[prat100_2000]

HSG, check your PM

Cheers

Rob

[Alex Whittingham]

HSG, I would certainly agree that you need to understand the subject, not just work off feedback questions. If you work from feedback alone you can come unstuck when the exam questions fail to match the exact wording of the feedback questions, it only takes one word to change the sense of a question and sometimes the correct answer as well. By the same token, it would be extremely difficult to pass the exams without feedback because so many questions are completely 'off the wall' and, in some cases, arguably outside the published syllabus.

Cabair's CGI is excellent, and the fact that you speak so well of him and his staff is all the recommendation they need.