What are newbees supposed to do?

[Moonraker2003]

It is becoming more and more tough for Newbees who have a CPL,multi IFRs to get into any flying jobs these days. After having to spend so much its a from pillar to post situation. Every airline wants Experience. So, Ok- but How can one get that Experience without getting a chance to get it?

Is there any airline that feels -OK lets set up a department and recruit LOw-Time pilots give them a stipend and let them build hours so they can have the minium requirement to enable them to be hired.

In my opinion this should now be made into a mandatory rule for all airlines in all countries to absorb their budding aspiring pilots to feel wanted and have confidence that they are a part of the pilot community and not shunted out like panhandlers. JUST BECAUSE they, due to no fault of theirs do not have the necessary hours or experience ( yeah it is a very idealistic way of thinking) but what the heck! why should they not be helped.

After all flying training schools are charging the earth, moon & stars and are dishing out pilots but what is the use of that piece of paper?

I think it is time these youngsters should be absorbed somewhere. afer all they have proved their abilities this far and have a legal rating.

They can have a tough selection board to weed out the chaff from the wheat so to speak, maybe ask them to put up some kind of security bond, whatever something should be done and FAST.

Maybe some retired Ex-pilots/ Instructor guys can start up such companies and help them out.

PPrune readers think about it, mull over it, give suggestions, and do something worthwhile.

[ecj]

Whilst I am not without sympathy for your plight, you are, at the end of the day, dealing with market forces where the simple truth is that supply v demand is at work. The big bad world.

I think you will find that some UK turbo prop operators are recruiting, and for the more capable newly qualified pilot, jet operators are also recruiting - GB Air have some ex-Jerez customers in training as we speak.

Unless some form of training subsidy is paid by HMG, how can any trading company be forced through statute to provide training for pilots where an economic need does not exist?

Your training is in essence a selection board, which may result in the FTO recommending you to an airline. The airline in turn have their own selection process. At the moment, only the more capable are being taken on.
This was not always the case. Reason - supply v demand . Customers were walking out of Oxford in 1986, with a choice of employer to choose from. I saw it in action.

At the end of the day, there is very little regulation requiring FTO to "select" their customers. If they have the finances, and meet the minimum standards they, the customers are issued with a licence. The FTOs are there like any business to provide a service, and make a profit for their shareholders.

The bottom line is simple market forces with elastic and non elastic supply and demand curves. Anyway that is what Dr. Reekie taught me in Economics at Newcastle many moons ago.

The way forward would be for you as a newly qualified pilot to contact your MP and persuade him/her of your case. This process is effective. You only have to look at the SIMPSON PROPOSAL for duty hours etc where speaking to your local MP has started to have an impact upon the proposal.

If Easy do proceed as advertised with significant expansion, then the food chain at the buttom will provide for the newly qualified, as the FOs with some experience move up in turn.

The next few years could well prove to be interesting.

[Bealzebub]

Who was it who told you that the world owed you a living ? Because they were wrong ! Others have done it before you. It should be made a mandatory rule that airlines cosset their aspiring pilots should it ? Yes well good luck.

Rose tinted glasses for sale £ 25 ono.

[FlyingForFun]

Have to agree with ecj and bealzebub. That's not the way the world works - sorry.

FFF
---------------

[Easy Glider]

Easily the most insane post I have ever read!!!!!!!!!

[Squak2002]

Good Idea,

I'm all for a new law making the airlines recruit low hour guy's.
But I would like to make one amendment to it.

"All the airlines in Europe have to provide me with an offer of
employment when I finish my training, or to be more fair, within 10 days of it"

Well, to be realistic, no ever told me it was going to be a fair and easy ride

[silverknapper]

And said airlines shall give me a choice of fleet.Furthermore I can choose the cabin crew I night stop with, having full prior knowledge of there disposition to 'group encounters'

[smartcol]

Is there any chance that when someone posts something on this site, in desperation and frustration about the lack of jobs for young pilots who have shelled out £40,000+ to sit on their arse and write letters and open , when airlines can be bothered sending them, rejection letters and try to speak to people on the phone for advice or online for advice as to where to go next, is there any chance that people could be realistic and pleasant. I am sick of reading on these forums, cocky answers, put downs, nasty responses and alike from ponses already in a position, spare a thought, if you can for those of us who are trying to get to where you are. What we need is advi

[FlyingForFun]

Smarcol,

The majority of us on the Wannabes forum are not "already in a position" - otherwise we wouldn't be on the Wannabes forum. We are either researching or in the process of training, or else looking for a job.

However, the vast majority of us have done enough research to understand the risks involved. And when we find ourselves being rejected time after time, we don't (or won't, for those of us for whom this is in the future) complain about the fact that we're in a situation which was entirely predictable, and which we decided was a fair price to pay given our personal circumstances. Instead, we will persevere, knowing that those who want it the most, and who persevere the most, will get it eventually, even though it won't be an easy road.

Those of us who have put this much thought into the process have very little sympathy for others who, apparently, have in the order of £30-£60K to spend without feeling it necessary to do any prior research, or who have chosen to ignore the results of their research and then seem surprised by what they find at the end of the road.

FFF
--------------

[airshowpilot]

I'm in full agreement with FFF. I understand that it's easy to lose your sense of humour in this game, but it was our decision to do this...never forget that. There is obviously an over supply of pilots at the moment, a situation that is likely to change.

I qualified earlier in the year and now work in the industry, paying the bills but sadly not flying yet. Sitting less patiently now, as I can see first hand the market for pilots improving, which is surely good news for all of us.

The advice that I have been given so far, and I don't mean to preach, is to network as much as you can! Also, do anything flying/aviation related as it may open the door. Go the extra mile (quite literally) to fly in locations or aircraft that the majority may not consider. Put yourself out. If you really want it, you'll make it happen. I have seen the most flexible, canny and determined pilots succeed. Good luck!

[Moonraker2003]

Smartcol- Thanks.-- as for the rest of you thanks as well for your very NEGATIVE posts. Seems none of you were ever in that situation the way your posts read- insensitive and crude maybe you had some grand daddys to take care and get you where you are today & to those who were so quick to jump and think it was a new wannabe who had posted the topic, U R very wrong. The same goes for the poster Flying for fun- Read the post again before responding in future.

It was seeing, the plight of so many youngsters who are going through the catch 22 that made me think. and put my thoughts on this message board.

The fraternity of pilots unlike other professionals used to be that of helping, guiding, advising, encouraging lot and not throwing a wet rag on them., guess those were the days when we had them and those who are still around have yet to read the post.

Surely if those of you who had no worthwhile contribution to add, your professionalism should have kept your fingers away from the keyboard.

[FlyingForFun]

Moonraker,

You are, as is everyone else, entitled to your opinion. It just happens to be different to most other posters so far on this thread.

I'm not quite sure why you've singled me out for a special mention. If it was because what I said in my second post on this thread doesn't fit your personal circumstances, then perhaps you should note that the post in question was actually a reply to Smartcol, not you. Smartcol raised some issues which were different (although related) to those that you raised, and my reply was entirely appropriate (and not directed at anyone in particular - especially not at Smartcol nor you). Perhaps you should follow your own advice when you say: "Read the post again before responding in future".

As for "those who were so quick to jump and think it was a new wannabe who had posted the topic", maybe you should make life easier for us. Your profile doesn't reveal anything about your flying experience. When you say things like "The fraternity of pilots unlike other professionals used to be that of....", and talking about "the plight of so many youngsters", you sound like an old pro. Which is a little strange, since just 6 months ago you described yourself as (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83958) "Pilot from Canada seeking employment... 300 hrs. TT" I assume you've since found yourself work? It's a tough world out there, and if you've made it then congratulations are in order.

I wish you good luck in your quest to help Wannabes. But please forgive me if I'm more inclined to rely on my hard work than your idealistic views to get me a job.

FFF
--------------

[Pilot Pete]

How can one get that Experience without getting a chance to get it?

Start at the bottom of the ladder and build hours as an FI or paradrop or fly in Africa or whatever else you can. Don't expect airlines to pay you to get experience before you apply for the job.

Is there any airline that feels -OK lets set up a department and recruit LOw-Time pilots give them a stipend and let them build hours so they can have the minium requirement to enable them to be hired.

No. None that I know of. Not economical.

In my opinion this should now be made into a mandatory rule for all airlines in all countries to absorb their budding aspiring pilots to feel wanted and have confidence that they are a part of the pilot community and not shunted out like panhandlers.

Again. Not going to happen and would not be as straight forward and simple as the idea seems. Costs are everything in airlines and every airline is trimming costs back to the bare minimum. They are not charities, but businesses and it's just like in any other business - you don't hire extra staff just to make them feel better.

JUST BECAUSE they, due to no fault of theirs do not have the necessary hours or experience ( yeah it is a very idealistic way of thinking) but what the heck! why should they not be helped.

You said. VERY idealistic. One could argue that it is through fault of their own as they weren't prepared to go that extra mile to gain experience on anything that will fly! Help in business comes to those who help themselves and through subsidies when appropriate. Many have already mentioned the supply and demand. From Canada you will understand that immigration into your country is based on what you can bring (in terms of skills that are in short supply) or how much money you can bring to invest. Perhaps avaition isn't so different after all?

After all flying training schools are charging the earth, moon & stars and are dishing out pilots but what is the use of that piece of paper?

It is a requirement for employment, but only part of the overall requirements. They provide a service and charge for it. Aviation is expensive. Full stop (sorry, period) They do not make economic decisions on the finished product and then cut their own noses off to spite their face when they see over supply. They respond to they customers' demand. Just like any business.

I think it is time these youngsters should be absorbed somewhere. afer all they have proved their abilities this far and have a legal rating.

It sounds like what you are advocating is that anyone who can afford the licence should be guaranteed a job. That is not good for the industry as a whole, let alone the employers who would have to bear the costs. We would all like jobs for life but economics dictates that this is just not possible in the modern world of consumer demand for ever increasing competition, choice and low prices.

They can have a tough selection board to weed out the chaff from the wheat so to speak, maybe ask them to put up some kind of security bond, whatever something should be done and FAST.

This sounds like you are now back-tracking and proposing that only the best of the bunch are given the jobs (or experience as you call it). Well that already happens! It's the free market and companies like CTC here in the UK do exactly this.

Maybe some retired Ex-pilots/ Instructor guys can start up such companies and help them out.

They are. I refer you again to companies like CTC.

PPrune readers think about it, mull over it, give suggestions, and do something worthwhile.

Have you followed what Astraeus did here in the UK for Ppruners?

So Moonraker, don't take offence, I have given my thoughts to your ideas as you solicited. However, I am not surprised at some of the remarks that have been posted. I think most people on here saw your ideas as a little niaive, however well intentioned. It all comes down to economics. If you really want to do something then make sure the idea is refreshing and allows for maximum gain for minimal outlay, for the AIRLINES and you will become the next GURU of all Wannabes!

PP

[High Wing Drifter]

Just my two pennies worth.

It is all very well arguing about supply and demand, market forces, etc. However, I am of the firm belief that there are fewer people trying to get into aviation because it is so indifferent to trainees. This will surely result in another skills vacuum in the not too distant future. Some might think that is good for their prospects, it will be, for about three to ten years before you face redunancy.

These airline induced oscilations that have been evident for the last 20-30 years are partly down to how difficult it is to respond to the need for pilots when the demand is there and how remote such a career seems when there is no demand.

These organisations need to aid and bring on those people they see as being of the right character and ability with a view to creating a stable industry. This boom and bust mentality is no good for anybody in the industry, never mind the pilots.

[ecj]

Attend the next BALPA recruitment conference which is due shortly.
Speak to the airlines yourself.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Good lord - Smartcol back again. I'm still not convinced that you aren't a wind up merchant.

++ Is there any chance that when someone posts something on this site, in desperation and frustration about the lack of jobs for young pilots

Umm, we've all been there and got the T Shirt - thanks. Want to see a stack of rejection letters and failed sponsorship applications? I've got dozens and so have most pilots. And why should we sympathise with young pilots - its the middle ages Wannabes with family commitment who warrant the greatest sympathy. Arguably.

++who have shelled out £40,000+ to sit on their arse and write letters and open , when airlines can be bothered sending them, rejection letters

Well frankly if the sum of your job seeking attempts is sitting on your backside firing off a stream of mail merged covering letters then you don't deserve and won't get a sniff of a job under the present, or indeed, past climates. If airlines don't advertise for 200hr Frzn ATPL pilots then don't expect them to employ someone to deal with their applications and buy stamps to send letters of apology.

++ and try to speak to people on the phone for advice or online for advice as to where to go next, is there any chance that people could be realistic and pleasant.

Realistic, yes, pleasant - maybe depending on mood. People on the other end of the phone are at work, with bosses, deadlines and a stack of work to be getting on with. Unsolicited applications come WAY down the priority list. As for here - hell - 5 years ago there was no here and Wannabes were in a deep dark hole with nobody to talk to. Which is why PPRuNe Wannabe became such a major part of PPRuNe. Be grateful and don't be precious.

++I am sick of reading on these forums, cocky answers, put downs, nasty responses and alike from ponses already in a position

Well you ain't enjoying this post then are you? And if you want to call people ponses then make sure you never bump into them in the future.

++spare a thought, if you can for those of us who are trying to get to where you are. What we need is advi

What the hell do you think the dozens of worthy contributors to this forum do ever week year in year out?!? You can get a lot of help and advice from PPRuNe. You just have to take a very different approach from the one you seem to take, slagging off your flying instructors, slagging off the airlines and slagging off the pilots who contribute to this forum.

Anyway, good luck,

WWW

[strafer]

Round and round we go....

Is it me or is every other thread on Wannabees now "Boo, hoo airlines won't give me a job", "Sob, sob I spent loads of money", "Blah, blah is it worth it?" etcetera, etbloodycetara. Even sensible and well thought out replies from eg, FFF are given short shrift.

It's very very simple. If you want to make money, work for yourself. If you want to fly, do what it takes, using an educated guess as to what the market will be like when you've finished your training. All the information is out there on the Electric super motorway, read the sensible posts on PPrune and work it out for yourself. In some ways I hope you do make it to the selection process with me, because whiny children are not going to be difficult to beat.

Lord have mercy.

[smartcol]

WWW.

Yet again you manage to surpass all other statements of sheer arrogance with your own gleaming version.

I am well aware of the current predicament, and I am well aware of what you need to do and what you need not do in the present climate.

I also understand that airlines have their own priorities and quite frankly that is not us, the low time pilot looking for a start. Which, in my opinion is their right. However there is a way about things. The way you treat people affects many things, when you speak to someone they are representing that company, it does not make marketable sense to be as disinterested as some airlines are. All it takes is some courtesey, thanks but no thanks. Piss off is not all that pleasant.

Also, when I or any other colleagues post something on this site, we are posting in order to gain advice from the likes of you and others who know better than us. I do not prophess to know better than anyone else, hence why I ask those who may know and I share my ideas. I do not expect to be blasted just because someone else has heard it before or they think I am wrong and they are right. I haven't heard it before !

As far as your nonsense about calling people ponses and not bumping into them in future, grow up.

[High Wing Drifter]

Oh dear, this is now a silly thread. I thought there was a valid point buried in the original post; a point other than self concern that is. I can handle being wrong (once or twice) :p

[Obs cop]

Thread's such as this always amaze me. There seems to be no end to Wannabe's posting about how unfair it is that they can't get a job as a low hours commercial pilot.

I am a Wannabe, but I have to say my expectations are entirely different to some that demonstrate their angst.

Having taken 10 years to raise the capital to start flying training, I do not feel that anyone within or any part of the system owes me anything. I could have invested the money elsewhere, but it is my decision to pursue my ambitions, and I am fully aware that I am most certainly not alone. In some respects, I feel quite privileged (spelling?) as there are millions of others who will never have the chance to reach their aspirations.

Furthermore, commercial aviation is one of the most cutthroat businesses around and invariably it is run by accountants and investors. It has no guilt, or emotion, just the eternal drive to survive and compete. The only way to achieve this is to ensure that it is competative, not likely if it is in-efficient. The lure of aviation is that there will always be more pilots or aspiring pilots than jobs. I would hazard a guess that the last thing an airline really wants is hunderds or even thousands of CV's on the doorstep every month, particularly when it is not recruiting. Unfair it may be, but it would occupy too much of a valuable empolyee's time to even read them to be efficient. To put it another way, there are a lot of people out there who dedicated their youth to football and will proudly declare they had trials with X,Y or Z. I have yet to meet one who believes that the clubs "owed" them a living.

I have no expectations concerning employment. My expectations are that I will spend £30k+ in attaining my licences and that at the moment I stand no chance of an airline job. That is why I am looking to instructing in order to fly, gain experience and make contacts. I like the idea of air taxi work, but again I don't expect anyone to give me a job just on the basis of having a licence. There are jobs out there, just in the less glamorous side of aviation and in the current climate the most sought after requisite is experience which these jobs can provide.

Personally I feel that my approach is realistic, whereas I wonder how many people are influenced by the glossy brochures and sales techniques of the major training providers.

Obs cop:hmm:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

it does not make marketable sense to be as disinterested as some airlines are.

You are nothing more than an irritant to the staff of the airlines you are speculatively applying to. You have to realise that. Just as much as I would be an irritant to BA staff were I to apply, unsolicited, to them for a job.

By all means seek advice on these forums. That is what they are for. But so far your major contributions have been to bitch about your instructors not liking you and to bitch about airlines not being polite enough...

Try to stop thinking about airlines and start thinking about becoming a flying instructor or an Ops gofor or a baggage handler. I was just speaking to someone who has got 350hrs on a bizjet after working on their ops desk for 13 months, after being a flying instructor on the same airfield for a 6 months. Despite qualifying just at the wrong time he has taken a succession of crappy jobs, lived in some very dodgy digs and earned his 800hrs. He starts in a week or so on a slightly bigger bizjet earning OK money. His career is now taking off and his job needs a replacement...

It would perhaps be better for you to pursue this line of attack rather than targetting disinterested airlines.

Clue: the airfield is 5 mins from my house.

Good luck,

WWW

[Pilot Pete]

HWD

These airline induced oscilations that have been evident for the last 20-30 years are partly down to how difficult it is to respond to the need for pilots when the demand is there and how remote such a career seems when there is no demand.

I think you will find that the oscillations are more as a consequence of general economic 'boom and bust'. The aviation industry is a very close barometer for the general economic climate; In the good times businesses tend to be happier to fund business travel and holidaymakers more likely to book up for their two weeks of sun, perhaps more than once a year. As soon as the economy contracts the aviation industry starts to suffer. Businesses tighten the belt and the average punter has to cut back on the non-essentials.

I think you should be lobbying your politicians to avoid the boom and bust and provide stability, which would benefit most industries, aviation included. I'm no great fan of the present UK government, but one thing they realized was the the last governments policies induced boom and bust in the economy and they had to get away from that.

I am of the firm belief that there are fewer people trying to get into aviation because it is so indifferent to trainees. This will surely result in another skills vacuum in the not too distant future.

I think the evidence is to the contrary; there are too many people trying to get into this industry as pilots and plenty with the required qualities. I don't see the training establishments going bust left, right and centre even after the downturn caused by Sept 11th.

This will surely result in another skills vacuum in the not too distant future. Some might think that is good for their prospects, it will be, for about three to ten years before you face redunancy.

I can't see it in the near future. Who knows what the market and the economy will be like in 5 years even? The long term theory is for increased demand in air transport but there will still be hiccups along the way.

PP

[Bealzebub]

This forum is visited by many very experienced pilots and other aviation professionals who are either very thorough in their reading of PPRuNe, or more likely have an interest in the questions or problems posed by wannabee contributors.

To those (few) of you who believe that such folk only come here to respond with "put downs" or "nasty comments", I really don't think anybody reads the posts with that intention.

It is a difficult career for many people to enter. Nevertheless many manage to do it. I am always interested to hear of my fellow work colleagues how they managed it. Never heard one yet who got where they are by complaining to the world at large.

Perhaps you are right and we should be sympathetic to your difficulties in which case I apologise and of course the airlines should be nice to you, and everyone already employed should tell you how unfair everything is. It is outrageous how much money you have had to spend when we all got here because of our daddies money or beacuse we are "ponses" whatever that may mean ? Of course there is an arguement that giving a short response that is a simple reality check borne out of real world experience might be worth your consideration as well.

Personally speaking I understand the frustration that some may feel and I sympathise. However all the sympathy in the world won't help you if you don't have the motivation luck and attitude that is necessary to suceed. The first two are hard to judge from a post but the latter is glaringly lacking from some contributors to these threads. For those that do persevere and knuckle down and hopefully get a little good luck along the way you have my best wishes and you deserve the opportunity. For those that wallow in their own grief or drop out for whatever reason then good luck in what ever you do. That is as close as your going to get to a hug !

[High Wing Drifter]

PP,

I take on board everything you say, I simply cannot disagree. I guess what I am trying to say is that the airlines don't seem to help their cause much (not ours). My hypothesis is that if they did more to level out the inevitable rough economic patches everybody involved would be better off. Just taking us poor trainees into consideration is the tail wagging the dog - no doubt about that. I am certain being able to respond to demand, on demand, is part of the solution. The five "P" acronym springs to mind :p

However, I can only hypothesise, as I don't actually know!

BTW, I very much enjoyed your story. It is invaluable to get a first hand account of just what is involved, and the hiccups :)

[Moonraker2003]

FFF- agree , I did post that about seeking a position, it was not for me, I did it to help a youngster, he was not registered with Pprune.

To the other comments --Well taken. I do realize the implications most of you mention, maybe I am an idealist, maybe I wanted to see if there were any others who would take up cudgles on behalf of these wouldbees. If I had the means and the capacity I would have rounded up a few like-minded--Any takers yet?

Guys , I am aware that economics, and the way things are today its a shot in the dark, but quite a few good things have been achieved in the past when ideas, thoughts were penned & shared.

If some have found my post naive, maybe it is--
My post has generated many view points, yes I did ask for them and it is fine as long as it stays within limits.

I am still optimistic that soon someone will think real hard and come up with a solution---

I know many of these wannabees , they are all aware that it was not going to be easy when they opted for flying as a career, they just need that 'foot in the door' opening.

BTW there is a school ( mentioned in the Regional Airline World issue ofJuly / August 2003 Vol. 20) main 'feature----Pilot training programmes Where training is more than Academic---- that train pilots to build hours, this gives me hope that many more will come up soon.
Thanks for your time to read my post.

[BJBATMAN]

There are still lots of entry level jobs out there. You just have to be willing to make the sacrifice, Moving and low pay. But the jobs are out there. There are at least 5 companies that I know of in Alaska that have right seat programs for low time pilots. Of course it is not in the right seat of some Jet going all over the world, but in Caravans, Casas, Metroliners, and Twin Otters. I am sure these kinds of jobs are all over the world if you are willing to find them.

[disco_air]

Nothing's going to be handed to you on a platter, especially in this industry.

As what has been made clear in all previous posts, everyone else has done/is doing the work to get to the flying job they want, so quit your whinging, take a number, get in the queue and join the club!

[Desk-pilot]

I sympathise with the predicament of anyone who has invested so much time and money into training for a career and hasn't secured a flying job. I can't think of any other career choice which demands so much effort and yet offers so little guaranteed reward. Even in Football you only give your time and usually little money to train but aviation is not like that.

It isn't the fault of the airlines however that they suffer this dreadful boom bust cycle every ten years, I am certain if they could they'd love to find a way out of it - it is a crisis of monumental proportions in American, Aer Lingus, BA, Midland, Virgin etc. Sadly, if you want to look for reasons why the industry suffers these oscillations you have to point the finger at the middle East problem more often than not eg. the oil crisis of 1974, first Gulf War in 1991, the twin towers in 2001, the Gulf War in 2003 have shaken the industry to the core.

On the up-side more and more people want to travel and the airlines are leaner and fitter than ever. Couple that with the fact that there are hardly any sponsored cadets in the system and you've got the potential for a huge surge in self-sponsored pilot demand as recovery gathers pace.

Humanity has an increasing passion to travel and explore the world. Lets hope that all of us become the pilots who fly them.

Hang in there buddy,

Desk-pilot

[TheHustler]

I think it depends on demand and supply like someone said, when the pilot market picks up and there is a strong demand for pilots, the surely low hour pilots will get considered too!
The key i reckon to gettting your foot in the door are what i call the 3 " P's ".........Persistence, Persistence, Persistence!!!
Most games are won with persistence, and not just pilot employment!
Just keep sending your CV every month on a revolving basis to all the airlines, but a lot of low hour pilots dont normally start off with the major airlines anyway do they ie; with the likes of Airtours, Easyjet, BA etc, i think its best to get on the first rung of the ladder byt targeting smaller 30-50 seat passenger carrying arilines suck as Manx, brymon, erm ...Jersey European etc, or cargo flying airlines like Emerald. If i had a CPL/IR frozen ATPL id be targeting these guys with CV's fone calls and personal visits etc etc until they got sick of me!
then, although not the most glamourous jobs/destinations for pilots, ie Isle of man routes etc, you are building hours (about 400 per year) if you are lucky to get a job!

be Persistent!

bounjour
xx

:cool:

Also forgot to mention, theres a lot of talk in the wannabes forums about newly qualified pilots/ wannabes seeking jobs straight away with the big airlines, and when they are not successful with selection/ interviews etc they become dis-illusioned as to why this is.
What not a lot of people mention though, is that its better to start lower down, build hours etc, then step up later.

bonjour

[Pilot Pete]

I think it is best to not restrict yourself when you have low hours. You need to be applying to any airline where you stand a chance of getting a job. If that includes 'big' airlines then don't not consider them. If you get lucky then great.

Do not, however just keep blasting CVs and making a pain of yourselfuntil they got sick of me! as that is a sure fire way to get no further when the recruitment door eventually opens with that airline.

PP

[Moonraker2003]

In total agreement with The Hustler and Pilot Pete ,exactly what I have suggested to the many wannabees who have approached me.

[TheHustler]

"Strafer"

"Is it me or is every other thread on Wannabees now "Boo, hoo airlines won't give me a job", "Sob, sob I spent loads of money", "Blah, blah is it worth it?" etcetera, etbloodycetara"

That one made me laugh! So true!