Accident @ Orlando flight Training

[vsukpadman]

Hi all.

....the pilot was apparently on his second solo...VERY lucky to have survived this...

Check out this for a pic of the plane - http://www.wesh.com/news/2466121/detail.html

NTSB Identification: MIA03LA179
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, September 09, 2003 in Kissimmee, FL
Aircraft: Cessna 152, registration: N5172B
Injuries: 1 Minor.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On September 9, 2003, about 0905 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 152, N5172B, owned and operated by Orlando Flight Training Inc., lost engine power and impacted with trees during a forced landing, at the Kissimmee Airport, Kissimmee, Florida. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time, and no flight plan was filed. The local instructional flight was conducted under 14 CFR Part 91. The airplane was substantially damaged. The student pilot reported minor injuries. The flight was originating at the time.

According to the student pilot, after taking off, and at an altitude of about 200 to 300 feet mean sea level, the airplane's engine lost power. The pilot made a 180-degree turn back to the airport, but was unable to reach the runway, and impacted with trees on the northwest corner of the airport.

[ecj]

Why make a 180 turn back ? Was landing ahead not an option due obstacles ?

[strafer]

Why make a 180 turn back ? Was landing ahead not an option due obstacles ?
I think 'second solo' might provide an answer to that one.

[FlyingForFun]

Obviously can't comment on any particular case without knowing all the facts.

But, in general, students should not be going solo unless they are proficient at EFATO techniques. That includes landing straight ahead, or if that's not possible, a turn of up to 30 degrees. I know my PPL instructor wouldn't have sent me solo unless he was confident that I knew how to do this. And, when my PPL instructor was off sick and another instructor signed me off for solo circuits, this instructor also had me do an EFATO whilst checking me out.

Glad to hear that the injuries were only minor, and I wish the pilot a speedy recovery.

FFF
-----------------

[spitfire747]

all other things aside... thank god the pilot only received minor injuries.. could have been much worse.
I did my PPL training and the airport is surrounded by tree and houses.. not many options with a dead engine at that height

[Julian]

There is another thread running at the mo on 180s, Genghis played with them and reckons he lost between 400-600ft in the turn (if I remember rightly), so would also explain why he hit the trees.

If Orlando is anything like LGB then landing ahead is certainly not an option, just about every square inch has been built on so a 180 may the lesser of two evils!

[silverknapper]

If thats the case must have been a tough choice! I was the same, constantly being checked on EFATO's whenever sent solo by new instructor and always the same message drummed in - don't turn back! If this guy had no choice must have been a scary experience!!

[vsukpadman]

hmm

difficult choice indeed...I have just returned from OFT after an IMC rating...I heard he was on 33...if so then straight ahead was the highway 192 and a big clump of trees...and lots of buildings...

Although agreed that turning back was not the correct procedure, he may well , with his limited experience have felt that he had no option....

It will be interesting to see what the cause of the engine out was though ........

[FlyingForFun]

So, given the limited options for turning back, does anyone know what the instructors teach PPL students to do for an EFATO there?

FFF
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[vsukpadman]

Well..

I was told ...EFATO with not sufficient runway...land straight ahead or max 30 degree turns....though the options for landing are limited, at around 2-300 ft , a 180 turn would be practically impossible.... It does raise an interesting dilemma for airfields where straight ahead is in fact NOT an option!

[Send Clowns]

Lucky man.

For future reference in the discussion, even if there is no decent landing ground ahead, turning back should not be tried in these circumstances. A controlled crash ahead is better than an uncontrolled crash. The only reason to turn away by choice that low (I agree that this student was too inexperienced to be expected not to try) is to sacrifice yourself for the lives of people on the ground.

[buzzc152]

This guy is actually a 'buddy' of mine..... he is part of my C150 syndicate at Shoreham. I won't give out his name but I can confirm he's OK...... a few bumps and bruises. BUT, you'll be very pleased to know as soon as he was discharged from hospital he was back up flying. Good man !!

Of course, he'll have to put up with all the stick from the rest of the group now..... D.R, the man with more take offs than landings.

Best of luck to him.

[92Alpha]

Flew in OFT too, glad to hear the pilots okay fair b*lls to him for getting back on the horse, thats the second plane of theirs I've flown in thats been crashed hope its not a trend.

[busz]

Nooooooooooo!

This was the aircraft i first flew when i got to OFT, and the one i first soloed in. It holds a very special place in my heart.
While i was there, the EFATO proceadures were drilled into my head, but that was because i had an excellent instructor.

A very very sad day for me.
I considered that plane to be my plane when i was flying over there. It will be sadly missed.

Glad to hear the guy is ok though.

At 200ft, you are pretty much right over the main road into Kissimmee, and to be honest there are not too many places to land. THere is a Wallmart on the left and loads of apartments and restaurants all around. Im sure it was a tough call.

Regards

Alex

RIP N5172B

[the_ridders]

Buzzc - Hi its Dave here.

Yes, I was faced with a tough choice, ahead, houses, trees, some roads with cars on them. I checked the roads some time afterwards actually, they have telegraph poles carrying mains power over the roads, poles down the sides too. There were quite a few people in cars, it was just gone 9.00am.

I know never to turn back to the same runway - I knew the procedure, It all happend soooo fast, I didnt even get a chance to get a call out to tower..

Ive done over 40 hrs passenger in C150 (we counted before I left for the US) and I know whats written, but the options were limited, as far as I could see at the time I saw a clearing and headed for it.

Needless to say I got an expensive chopper ride and hospital bill for the checkout. (2KGBP). And I couldnt see out of the window on the chopper either!

Some bruses, but Im fine. I reckon my luck was well and truly in that morning. And - yep Im continuing. Im not going to be an ATPL or nothing, just pleasure flights in the 150 I have a share in, if all goes well with the PPL.

Stay safe everyone... the guys Im learning with here reckon I should take up tree collecting as a new hobby.

edited - forgot to mention, sorry about knackering your fave plane, it really was a nice one that flew nice that was for sure

[TRon]

I love it 2K chopper ride and you couldn't see out of the window!!, that made me laugh mate.

Certainly one to tell the boys.....

Best of luck with everything mate, glad to her you are OK!!.

[Odlix]

You know what the statistics say...

You're safe now! :}

[ChrisVJ]

Ridders

You have my profond admiration for your survival and getting back on the horse. Thank you for your post, not too often we see that kind of experience recounted so well.

[FlyingForFun]

I can only echo what ChrisVJ says. I don't know the field, but it doesn't sound like an easy choice. Glad you lived to tell the tale, and that you're back up again.

FFF
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[the_ridders]

Thanks for the kind words everyone. Appreciated.

Looking to take the skills test in next few days... :ugh:

[cfipo]

Hi there,

As witness to Dave's crash and his becoming at one with the trees at OFT, it was f***ing scary to watch and likewise surprising to see him walk away. He really did make the best decision possible and everyone here is damn proud of him.

However, his rendition of '(I did it) My Way' in the pub that night left a lot to be desired....stick to the flying Goose!

F

[kabz]

Fan-bloody-tastic !!!!!!

Great post .... sure does sound like the Right Stuff !!!!!

[the_ridders]

Just to let you all know I passed the skills test on my last day in the US, had planned to take it the day before but weather wasnt good enough.

Horahhh!!!!


Look out below everyone!:D

[Send Clowns]

Good effort, Ridders, glad to see you are flying again.

Hope you didn't read any criticism in what I wrote, none was intended. I suspect you are the only one here that knows how he would cope in the circumstances, and you can chalk that up as a success: live to fly another day.

Try not to make a habit of it :) Instuctors worry about their charges.

Well done on the skills test. Happy flying in safe skies!

[KING OF FLIGHT]

I am thinking about going to Orlando Flight Training for my PPL.
Does anyone know why the engine quit ? Is this common ?
My family is worried.

Cheers.

[Send Clowns]

It is not common anywhere. I doubt it is significantly more so at Orlando. If it happened a lot someone would notice and shut them down! Even in the US the industry is fairly strictly regulated and I believe OFT is CAA-approved as well. Is Orlando the one owned by Cabair?

[Tiger Bob]

My instructor said that if there is nowhere to go then go straight into wind (straight ahead or within 30 degrees) as he would rather hit the ground at stall speed minus wind speed than stall speed plus wind speed.

[carbonfibre]

Knowing the airport and having a similar experience at another US airport i can say,

Well done matey!!!!!

As long as you walk away, thats all that matters. Make a decision and stick to it, at the end of the day planes can be replaced.

Good luck in future

:ok:

[jonathoninglesby]

im just glad you missed the winghouse! ooohh those nice ladies
the fire house on the other hand would be a good target .

[busz]

lol, the winghouse. dont want to hurt those girls!!!:mad:

[Space_odyssey]

Just to support Ridders & to build a better picture for everybody I have provided this photo of the t/off from RWY 33 (or approach to RWY 15). I flew at OFT a couple of years ago & I took this shot from N80FT (warrior) ! You can just see the start of Highway 192 in the bottom of the picture.


http://mysite.freeserve.com/space_odyssey/MVC_779F.JPG

Personally I would have done a half loop, then rolled it to straight & Level to turn back on yourself, a much safer action than a 180 turn !!!!!!!!!!

[jamespollard]

Dave hi - james here - we were at OFT together with scott/kath etc - how are u after the crash? it appears you are something of a hero! well you are my hero as i was due to have the plane after you! dam maintenance - all the planes at OFT are shocking!
i am now at oxford doing the ATPLs and is a far cry from OFT - they are so professional by comparison - can't believe someone actually recommended OFT to me!
hope u are well - i wouldnt tell your aeroplane consortium about this, but it appears u already have.
regards
Capt JP

[the_ridders]

Space_Odessey - thanks for the picture, it brings back memories, thats for sure.

I remember looking ahead and thinking: Land ahead - whooa theres absolutely nowhere to bloody go - arghh!

Then I remember looking over my left shoulder and seeing a clearing and heading there. I never quite made it and the trees came up sooo fast. I must admit I managed a stonking flare, at treetop height as the wheels started going in (wheayy! not something many student pilots have got to practice eh). 180deg is a bit of an exageration, but it wasnt a land ahead for sure.

In that picture you can see the sheraton hotel on the left I think, and the area I ended up in, somewhere above that large warehouse looking thing on the right.

Busz: No way I could have headed for Winghouse, what a place:ok: Did visit many a time afterwards though
:cool:

Send Clowns - No Problems Totally understood. :)

James - Great to hear from you! Ive met up with Kaptain Kath about a month ago. Will PM you with my contact details...
Your right about the group james, they are now all calling me "Almost". (Almost as many landings as takeoffs).:hmm:

Meantime - stay safe everyone, and remember it CAN happen. Ive read many a report and realise I am very lucky, many have landed on nice clear areas ahead only to stuff the plane in a ditch or hedge, flip it and come off worse.

Finally if your in ever Shoreham the one to watch out for is the only totally Black (yes thats right) C150 based there. Its so we dont show up on radar......

Cheers all
Almost

[easygit]

Interesting report:

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows.
A loss of engine power due to inadequate maintenance.

Occurrence #1: LOSS OF ENGINE POWER(PARTIAL) - MECH FAILURE/MALF
Phase of Operation: TAKEOFF - INITIAL CLIMB
Findings
1. (C) MAINTENANCE - INADEQUATE - COMPANY MAINTENANCE PERSONNEL
----------
Occurrence #2: IN FLIGHT COLLISION WITH OBJECT
Phase of Operation: MANEUVERING - TURN TO LANDING AREA (EMERGENCY)
Findings
2. OBJECT - TREE(S)
Findings Legend: (C) = Cause, (F) = Factor

The FAA inspector who responded to the accident stated that several discrepancies were found during the postaccident
examination of the engine. The shielding was separated on five of the eight ignition leads, the No. 2 cylinder ignition lead was
misfiring into the shielding, and there was excessive play in the carburetor throttle shaft. The contacts on the distributor blocks of
both magnetos were burned and worn, and the fuel screen was very dirty.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030910X01509&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=MIA03LA179&rpt=fi

[VisaGeeza]

Ridders, did you finish up out of pocket over the crash?

[jonathoninglesby]

He went to OFT ! He was out of pocket as soon as he walked through the door !
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Good instructors though:D :D :D

Phew that was close!!

[Katamarino]

Looking at that maint. report...so glad I decided not to choose OFT!

(And, may I say, well done on getting out in one piece sir!)