Logo and Ldg Lights

[Fropilot]

I would like to know what other airlines have as policy on Logo Lights. Ours is to switch them off along with the landing lights passing FL100

[L337]

us 2, but nobody does. :)

[ETOPS]

I've started switching them off below 10'000 when landing at certain middle east airports!

[Max Angle]

Nice and easy on the good ol' Bus. Unless turned off (same switch as the Nav. lights) they come on with the weight on the wheels or with flap out, one less thing to worry about.

[TopBunk]

Max

Really? Wasn't aware of that. Maybe not on our (BA) 'buses [have to look in the tech manual to be sure], I guess it's a customer pin selectable option, but maybe that explains why some 'bus operators fly around with the nav lights on in broad daylight!

We switch them on on entering runway (together with strobes) and off when clean after t/o, then back on with gear and flap 2 on approach (unless in Germany in VFR conditions, then below 10,000ft to avoid VFR traffic).

[GlueBall]

No policy for Logo lights. Entirely crew's (Captain's) discretion. Landing lights "On" below 10,000' AGL, except at night if entering low overcast or fog during final approach, as it's easier to spot the approach, threshold and runway lights.

[Nerik]

As far as I know on the A320 the Nav/logo lights do not come on automatically with landing gear extension.

What I do know is that the taxi light and turnoff light go out when leanding gear is retracted, even if switch is still on. However if Nav/logo light switch is off, landing gear has no effect.

[kick the tires]

The strobes come on automatically with the WOW switch - on when airborne way round!!

Most operators tend to manually select them on at start of take off roll to benefit from collision avoidance for the time spent on the runway.

[PAXboy]

The strobes come on automatically with the WOW switch Dumbe Question: What is the 'WOW' switch?

[Jet II]

What is the 'WOW' switch?

Weight on Wheels - also known as 'squat switch'

The operation of the logo lights is dependant on engine type - on IAE a/c the logo lights only illuminate when the main gear is compressed or the slats are extended.

On CFM its just down to switch position.

Before anyone asks - no, I don't know the reason for the difference - the damn thing is French after all:{

[JW411]

When I was with Laker we went through a spell of cranks phoning in bomb threats at LAX and a couple of aircraft were evacuated.

It was then decided to leave the logo lights switched off and the threats stopped instantly.

Sometimes it doesn't pay to advertise!

[boofhead]

The Korean airplane shot down in 1983 was flying all lights off. I feel that if they had the logo lights on the military pilot would have been able to identify them as civilian and therefore would not have fired at them, or taken more trouble to force them to land. Maybe.
I was over Kabul at night some years back, cleared to climb to FL310. As we climbed I saw a BA 747 immediately above us (had to crane my neck to keep them in sight). I stopped climb a few hundred feet below them and asked ATC if they had any traffic in our area, and was told in a rather urgent voice to immediately descend to FL290. I can't say that the logo light made it more likely that I saw them, but it might have, since the logo light is quite a good alert, and allows the airplane to be identified more easily, as well as to see its vector.
I personally don't understand the thinking of those who turn the logo light off at night, at any altitude. What are they saving? electricity? That's the justification the Korean crew was using.

[White Knight]

Our company have a newish SOP that nav lights are on 24 hours a day - as it's a 'bus I'm on it means we have the logos 24 hours a day also. Not sure about the 777.

[ETOPS]

Boofhead

The 777 I fly has a very distinctive British flag on the fin which shows up well at night with the logo light on. Some of our destinations are Middle eastern areas where not everyone likes us. There are quite a few surface to air missiles in the wrong hands - get the picture?

[Latte tester]

See and be seen

Although I'm not in commercial ops, we have our logo/wing insp lights on below 10,000'AGL, manually selected.
Seems to work for us in our operation and it's always nice to know that we have side facing lights for those other aircraft in the sky.

[boofhead]

ETOPS. yeah I know, i've seen it up close. I doubt a manpad will reach that high though. It also sounds a little like paranoia to me.
Maybe having your tail alight will make the terrorist leave you alone, since he is probably targetting a specific airline, unlikely to be BA.

[Baffin Boeing Boy]

Our SOP is for Nav lights on whenever the aircraft is powered.
Landing lights on below 100' (or as applicable at night for flight viz)
logo lights only at night and below 100'

No WOW switches either. You gotta flick the switch!

But then again, I fly Boeings.

cheers
BBB

[320DRIVER]

I don't think that a bunch of crazies that are hell-bent on shooting you down would need something as rudimentary as the logo to identify their target. I am sure they would have other ways and means ...

[A and C]

The logo lights are a very good way of keeping your aircraft conspicuous , in a high workload situation the illumnated tail gives a much clearer picture of the direction of travel of the aircraft than the navigation lights.

With all the military intercepts that are happening at the moment then he logo light is a good way of leaving no doubt in the mind of an intercepting fighter pilot that it is a civil airliner that he is dealing with.

For these reasons I would leave the logo lights on unless there is a very good reason not to do so , I know someone out there will tell me that TCAS will tell me about traffic before I see it or it sees me but I see the lights as a very cheap last line of defence.

[slingsby]

Lights on, in reference to military intercepts. Wasn't KAL006 shot down with all lights on?

Logo light, optional. Off if you want a stealthy but noisy landing. On if you want to advertise your company.

As for directional orientation, funny red/green nav lights on the wings.:p

[A and C]

I expected the odd stupid and smart @ss reply just not so quickly !.

The fact is that in a high workload situation the more information that you have on the directional orientation of an aircraft the quicker you can act.

Slingsby just how much quicker could you assess the speed, range and direction of an aircraft with a large lump of tail illuminated and nav lights vs three little spots of light ?.

[boofhead]

Slingsby, funny how info can be twisted. The KAL aircraft had all its lights OFF (including nav lights, anti coll and logo) and the cabin crew are accustomed to closing all the window shades during cruise, so even the light from the cabin was blocked.
Meanwhile the USAF had a spy flight in the vicinity that was being tracked by Russian radar and they confused the two airplanes. If they had been able to visually identify the KAL airplane maybe they would not have pulled the trigger.

[RUDAS]

Well provided your'e not trying to keep a low profile for security reasons, i think tail lighting should be kept on in all phases of flight.it really helps in identifying traffic.in fact it can be most necessary when on the taxi.