NOW or never

[kpiko3]

well then,when is it for NOW,They seem to look pretty banged up at the moment,
No aircraft
No Pilots
Hardly any staff(eg cabin crew)

Very bad management if you ask me.

Prestwick Spotter
kpiko3

[jmc-man]

When I say that, I get my ear bent.

Interesting piece sent to me courtesy of ABTN (http://www.abtn.co.uk/) CRANFIELD UNIVERSITY has published its second report into the low-cost scheduled airlines which have revolutionised short-haul air travel in recent times, particularly in the UK and Western Europe. The report says rapid growth of budget scheduled carriers in Europe is in sharp contrast to the charter airlines who have seen traffic stagnate or even decline. As the no-frills sector matures, however, a potential over-supply of airline seats means that some no-frills airlines will struggle to survive.

Sobering thought if you are looking to start a new carrier right on the doorstep of the biggest.

[Yarpy]

To quote from one of your many, many posts against Now Airlines:

>>Only because I have seen an awful lot of paper airlines over the past few years, and HAD MY FINGERS BURNED WITH ONE OR TWO... and I would like to see NOW (or anyone else claiming a start-up) being honest with their dealings with the flying community.

For example...has anyone been issued a contract by NOW? Has anyone been given an employment start date by NOW<<

Which two airlines burnt your very sore fingers?

Got my contract, got my start date, sorry to dissapoint you.

[jmc-man]

Excellent....well done guys:-

Now we just need
1) Destinations
2) A reservations system
3) Passengers
4) Aircraft
and
5) AN AOC

All of which, I'm sure are well under way.

Oh, and a first flight date would be good as well

Best of Luck

[In trim]

jmc-man might be like a broken record, but I must admit I am becoming increasingly doubtful !

[Yarpy]

. . .jmc-man might be like a broken record, but I must admit I am becoming increasingly doubtful ! . . .

Precisely. Repetition of an unimformed, biased and critical opinion.

All done with the personal remit of attacking business confidence and recruitment.

It means nothing. Judge them on their trading performance.

[Dirty Harry]

Some points which tend to contradict the nonsense posted by JMC-MAN and others:

1. They have at least 20 people in the office at Luton, and growing.
2. Route proving flight seems to be confirmed.
3. the simulators are booked for courses, with people on courses now.

I think they are being very smart in not releasing information into the public domain, in fact you could say it is very clever tactics not to release information until the day before launch even.

[surely not]

I have nothing to do with NOW but I do know an ex colleague who is working hard to get the AOC approved and ready. He is of the opinion that the airline will have a successful launch. Sorry don't know any dates.

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

This is where fixed pricing comes into it's own though.

Someone wants to fly to Barcelona, for example, the day of NOW launching services there and that day is tomorrow. Cattle-truck airlines also flying from Luton is charging silly money while NOW, offering a premium service, is the same price it will always be. The guy/gal buys the NOW seat and enjoys the service and isn't told he is cheap and becomes a loyal customer telling all his/her other friends how good it was and how nice it was to be treated like a human being. Suddenly everyone knows about NOW, but only the good things and not the appauling demonstrations of the lack of customer service shown by Cattle-truck airlines on their TV show on ITV.

PS. So as not to encourage JMC-man and his alter ego's (priscilla, Sq Ldr WX et al) please ignore any posting he may make on the subject of NOW. His sim is in flight freeze and going nowhere!

[25minutes]

Hope NOW comes good, but they are going to have to be able to fight as hard and as clever as Stellios did with the big boys,in the beginning, because they ai,nt gonna get no red carpet , RW and MO,L are going to set out to ruin them as quickly as possible,giving away seats and increasing frequency on any threatened territory, and anyone who believes the two won,t work together in some way to achieve this is very naive.
Be a good fight to watch though,even if not a long one.

[TartinTon]

Ttree Ttrimmer,

You are assuming that all airlines work in a vacuum?

Supposing NOW did launch with one days notice and just suppose that those orange chappies are selling at the extortionately high rates for which they are reknowned. Do you think that if one of the routes on which NOW flies is a orange route that there would not be a competitive response?

I suspect that if the competitive environment required it that EZY would drop their fares to a more competitive frame (remembering that they have a lot more frequency on most of their routes than NOW are likely to start with). Surely they would just price the flight that is closest to the NOW frequency at or below the NOW rate and leave the rest as is?

This is exactly where fixed pricing never can and never will work

[Best Western]

Buzz first flight was in the depths of winter - started off to empty flights in the quietest part of the year, with the competition fighting to fill their flights.

2004, with additional low cost capacity forecast to equal the entire 2001 capacity will be a tough year... Hope Now know what they are doing - even with 20 staff in the office....

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Are you sure cattle truck airlines treat their customers as non-humans?

Statistically there is not too much to choose between the top ten UK airlines in terms of bags left behind, cancelled flights, punctuality and - probably - the smileyness of the cabin crew.

Its a bit of a tenuous assumption to translate ITV's Airline docusoap into a realistic illustration of a 22,000,000 pax-a-year operation.

Not that there isn't considerable room for improvement of course.

If Now succeed in offering the pax a different product that they like then, in the long run, we'll all benefit. After all if Ryan and Easy hadn't tried the same thing then a lot of pilots wouldn't have jobs today.

WWW

[VIKING9]

But how can they be selling seats soon? How soon is soon ?:confused:

[jethro15]

Seat sales commence October 03, first flight early December 03

jethro
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
http://www.jethros.i12.com

[VIKING9]

B757RATED I would guess he's speculating as the website says "booking soon for flights in October"....:confused:

[LTNman]

NOW Airlines have filed slots with Airport Coordination Limited (ACL) to commence operations on 11 December 2003, operating 3 B737-300 aircraft to 6 European destinations from LLA.

[VIKING9]

Well, positive news indeed. Any ideas where the B733's are coming from?:rolleyes:

[jmc-man]

PASSENGERS!!!!!!

Where are the passengers?????

Are you guys deaf or what? NOW airlines can apply for anything they want, at minimum expense....but no PASSSENGERS, No Business.

[LTNman]

Haven’t really seen them putting a foot wrong so far. Their best move was turning down JMC-man for a job:D :D :D

[Buster the Bear]

The destinations on thier web site may not be those finally flown.

Good luck to all those who have taken the NOW plunge!

Now, I want to go to: ...............

Mr jmc-man, if the marketing is sound, then as Luton has such a huge catchment area, if the loss leaders are good, then they will fill thier planes.

Might help if they used me, cuddly Buster to entice the public, or paint one as a logo BusterJet!

If they can get the media on thier side with some wizzo plan, then thier planes will be full.

They need to keep this marketing going into the new year.

How about a free cuddly Buster with every seat sold, or even BusterPoints, save them up when you book and get a free Whipsnade tour, or even share a sarnie with me!

BusterPoints, what an idea eh?

[LTNman]

Flymate.

No the news was included in a route development and marketing report from the airport that has just been made public.

[saltrock surfer]

Given the record of attempted 'intelligence gathering' about Now's destinations, it would probably be unwise for anyone who knows the destinations to write about them here anyway. I'm sure 'Now' will publish them when they're ready.

[VIKING9]

One ex Continental B733, from the desert or from an existing lease that is about to expire :mad: When are EZY's 2 white tails up for grabs ??:confused:

[jmc-man]

I'm sure they will post their destinations just as soon as....

they get the money to finance the project. (Or if they get the money to finance the project). Be in no doubt, that if the full finance was in place they would have been flying in July as planned. Continued delays in announcing start-up , or destinations , or selling tickets or even for that matter updating the website, are down to one thing, and one thing only....they money isn't there yet. November is the quietest month in the industry, followed by February and March. July was a great time to start, peak Summer , and lots of cash in the bank to see through the tough times of winter.

When (or If) it arrives, then everything will become public very quickly indeed.

Still got the champagne ready to send, but might break it out for the crew christmas party if not sent by mid December.

[VIKING9]

jmc-man I hate to say it, but I think you will be proved wrong on all accounts......:E

[Buster the Bear]

Now Airlines update

Now Airlines, the new low-cost airline first revealed in March, has confirmed that it is currently in the process of having its AOC and
operating licence applications approved by the CAA. The airline plans to begin flying from London Luton Airport towards the end of 2003.

Chief executive Lars Welinder said: "We're aiming to provide travellers, both business and leisure, with a better flying experience. Before we begin operating, we will ensure that we have all the necessary regulatory approvals in place. This does take time but we feel that gaining our full licences at the outset will demonstrate to customers and partners alike that we have high standards and long-term ambitions. Our launch plans are progressing well on other fronts with a full team of pilots and cabin crew in place and training under way."

The airline will launch with two airplanes (148-seat Boeing 737 300s), with a third to be added in February and a fourth in March 2004.

As well as the launch task force which includes Lars Welinder, chief executive officer, Nick Grimwood, chief operating officer and Albert
Churchman, chief financial officer, the airline has appointed Frank Bishop as president of flight operations, Andy Lee as air crew
training manager, Nikki Woore as cabin crew manager and Jo Wiseman as marketing manager.

- ends -

[Powerjet1]

Would seem to tie in with LTN Man's post of 17/9 re slot applications to start flying ops wef 11 December

[eng123]

FLYMATE,

You mention the smartness of the aircraft.Just wondered,who is the maintenance providor that will deliver this smartness?

[bmibaby.com]

Whilst Now! is claiming to offer customers a better experience in terms of their fare structure and the fact that there will be Now! customer representatives on departure and arrival like the mainline airlines, what else is different?

Will they be offering an onboard service that is much different to EZY/FR?

More legroom, entertainment and leather seats?
A decent catering service?

[jmc-man]

Interesting post, Buster, where was it puiblished ?

It doesn't say a lot, but it's interesting to hear something from someone in authority, rather than the prattles of a recently recruited cabin crew member.

Heres the bit I found most interesting:-
Before we begin operating, we will ensure that we have all the necessary regulatory approvals in place. This does take time but we feel that gaining our full licences at the outset will demonstrate to customers and partners alike that we have high standards and long-term ambitions.

Does the Chief Executive ( is he still interim, by the way) really mean that there is option of operating WITHOUT all the necessary regulatory approvals? So surely this is not news, it could just as easily have been written by the CAA ( " NOW will only commence operations when they have received the necessary regulatory approvals). It's hardly a demonstration of standards or ambitions, just a statement of fact. AN AOC fee to the CAA is about £18K, it would cost about £200 to update the website.

With regard to the other individuals, if they get their act together, NOW will certainly have one of the best Traininers in the business. Easy deserved to lose him by the way they treated him. As for a President of Flight Operations this made me laugh out loud. Definately sounds like someone on a massive ego trip.

Nikki Woore used to work for GO (http://www.iheartgo.com/feedback.htm)

So nothing really newsworthy, but good to see one in the know at least say SOMETHING.

[Powerjet1]

Jmc Man

Posted on Now's website under 'Media Info' - 19/9

[Buster the Bear]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=103136

[jmc-man]

This is probably a local attempt to resurrect the business carried out by National Jet Italia, and attempted by British World. The Sardinians have been trying to get a decent scheduled service operation up and running foir some time. There is huge movement of government employees on a daily/weekly basis. I Can't believe they will generate enough business to make a success of it, but in Italy ( and Sardinia in particular) who knows?

[bigredbin]

JMC-man I think what they mean when they say "necessary regulatory approvals" they mean they want their own AOC from day one, unlike other airlines that piggyback with other airlines to get them up and running, Easy started under Airfoyle`s AOC using the same headquarters as NOW ironically..

[jmc-man]

Bigredbin, yes, I see your point, although it doen't quite read that way. When easyJet started on Air Foyles AOC with IAG's aircraft they benefitted from the economies of scale, whereby a huge chunk of overhead was spread across a much bigger fleet ( If I remember correctly there were a fleet of 146's operating for TNT and a 737-300 operating charter out of Leeds) I do recall a number of visits to Halcyon house to discuss various projects with the Air Foyle team . In fact thats where I first met Hamrah who, I seem to recall was Air Foyle's ( and therefore technically easyJets) Fleet Manager on the 737-200.

I notice that Astraeus have a successful AOC hosting operation in Iceland for Iceland Express. I would have thought NOW might have given them a call to discuss possibillities.

[Buster the Bear]

jmc-man the info came from Italy from a reliable source.

[VIKING9]

jmc-man When easyJet started under Air Foyle's AOC, they, Air Foyle that is, had no financial input whatsoever, apart from satisfying the CAA. Non of the costs incurred were met by Air Foyle. This was also the case when they assisted Air World, Sabre, Color Air, Air Scandic etc. Only the 737-300 operation under the name SUNJET were costs covered in-house. I doubt very much if NOW will call Astraeus for anything - there's no need to. NOW appear to be building a fine team from what I've heard :rolleyes:

[Darth-Vader]

Viking, Viking,

I see you are up too your old tricks! That was not very nice of you too have me barred like that!

But fear not, im back! new, improved and better than ever! :E

YOU CAN RUN BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU

:ok:

[jmc-man]

Viking 9,


you have half the story there. easyJet also had no major finance requirements to satisfy the CAA by starting with Air Foyle as their AOC holder. It gave them time to become established, make money and establish themselves in the market before jumping through the CAA hoops.

I accept it's horses for courses. I might debate the quality of the team that NOW are assembling, but thats obviously for another day.

In the meantime, I still believe that NOW are struggling to get all the finance together, hence the repeated delays.

We shall see.

[VIKING9]

jmc-man yes it would seem that easyJet didn't have to satisfy the CAA until they applied for their own AOC. As for NOW's financial arrangements, they do have the necessary in place it would seem. It's not so much the finance that's been holding them up, other issues have been getting in the way. Well, that's what I've been told anyway. Timetable will be released soon too !

Darth Vader MK2 Nice to see you. It wasn't me who got you barred, but glad to see that you are still a light year away from the facts :ok:

Can we keep to the topic in question here, and that is NOW Airlines start up :*

[FLYMATE]

Getting very close now to Now Airlines launch. They are very careful not to let out any information to the opposition, but am assured all is on track. So watch this space.

[Yak97]

I believe that when Easy-jet started, on other people's AOC (Gib-air then Air Foyle) they actually had an ATOL license which enabled them to sell the seats (just like a seat-only tour operator).

When you think that an ATOL requires a bond to pay passengers back in the event of an company failure, passengers would be better covered than being with a scheduled airline which, if it fails, you lose your money (unless you've paid with a credit card?)

Good luck to NOW, I think their going to need it.

[Buster the Bear]

Best kept secret in recent Luton aviation history!

How about naming their first jet Buster the Bear?

Good luck to all!

[Runway 31]

Hi

I noted on another forum that 737-300 G-ZAPM was due on a training detail today at Prestwick as NWX001/2T.

Is NWX the code for NOW as it would appear to be a new allocation ?.

Runway 31

[VIKING9]

Runway 31 yes, it would appear that base training was being conducted at PIK today with the Titan 733, on dry lease presumably ;)

[easy]

Heard a Now-fly call sign on a training flight near PIK this evening, was it you?:cool:

[VIKING9]

I don't think Titan would have their pizza removed for anyone, least of all NOW Airlines. But then, if NOW are going to be offering inflight catering, or snacks, maybe they will replace the pizza with a tea cup and biscuits :uhoh:

Good news though that things are on the move, even if they are only base training. I wonder if jmc-man is about to eat the hat :rolleyes:

[Buster the Bear]

Yet another fixed fare airline:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=103490

[Darth-Vader]

Darth...would you mind taking your personal vendetta elsewhere !

Hamrah

[25minutes]

first NOW aircraft guess.....GIGOA

[VIKING9]

....or maybe G-ONOW, or G-NOWA:mad:

[ALLMCC]

Despite all the criticisms, I do hope things work out for Now - at least with fixed pricing you know exactly what you'll be paying not like some other so called low costers!

On my wish list would be Luton to Belfast City - a lot of people I've spoken to are sick of having to travel miles away from Belfast to BFS for what are supposed to be cheap fares but turn out to be anything but!

Good luck Now!

[BOTFOJ]

I hope the Titan connection was only a short term lease to operate the training detail. If they are seriously considering a long term lease from Titan then NOW! will last about five minutes because their ACMI rates are pure evil. Their 733 is the worst of the lot because Titan pay more a month for that then they do their 757.

[bigredbin]

I am fairly confident that the Titan 733 was only used as a trainer and will not form part of the fleet. Just a good way for Titan to get some revenue, and for NOW to get base training done on a 733.

[Buster the Bear]

G-NOWA, B, C etc are available still:

http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/aircraft_register/ginfo/search.asp

Do a search for G-BEAR, just about sums me up!

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Buster Wow a bear in the air, watch out for gliders near Whipsnade though

Golf India Bravo

[Dirty Harry]

Seems like JMC-MAN will have to pop the cork soon.

[jmc-man]

...from the NOW website..

Final Destinations - Coming Soon

I suppose it will depend on NOW's definition of soon. Based on their version, the champagne will be vintage.

I can't guarantee it (the champagne!!) will survive christmas.

[VIKING9]

jmc-man you are right, I bet the champagne won't survive until Christmas...... think you will be cracking it open sooner than you think http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/ban.gif http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/guin.gif

[Powerjet1]

May have been in error or a slip up but showing on Luton's departure board for tomorrow from around 6.55, 7.30 etc, NWX flight nos showing flights to Munich, Brussels & Lisbon. Could this be the first proper clue to some of Now's intended destinations.

[Flightrider]

Don't think so - no sign of Munich. Current plan looks to be a start date of 11 December with two aircraft, adding a third on 01Feb and fourth on 01Mar. The route plan appears to be:

Brussels 4 daily from 11Dec with 5th daily from 01Mar
Schedule 0600, 0820, 1345 (fm 01Mar), 1615 and 1950

Rotterdam 2 x daily from 01Feb
Schedule 0700 and 1630 off LTN

Lisbon 1 x daily from 01Feb
Schedule 1005 off LTN

Bordeaux 1 x daily from 11Dec with 2nd daily from 01Feb
Schedule 0910, 1920 (from 01Feb) off LTN

Stockholm Arlanda 2 x daily from 01Mar
Schedule 0710 and 1655 off LTN

Almeria 1 x daily from 11Dec
Schedule 1735 off LTN

Valencia 1 x daily from 11Dec
Schedule 1135 off LTN

A/c operate
No1 from 11Dec - BRU, BOD, BRU, BRU
No2 from 11Dec - BRU, VLC, LEI
No3 from 01Feb - RTM, LIS, RTM, BOD
No4 from 01Mar - ARN, BRU, ARN

I cannot begin to imagine how bad the 22:30 return departure off BRU will be as the return leg of the 19:50 LTN-BRU service.

Cheers
Flightrider

[VIKING9]

Flightrider Obviously an insider of NOW or LTN Airport, as the website still says, well, nothing actually :mad: What's wrong with the BRU schedule? Seems ok to me, assuming timings are based on local. :ok:

[Flightrider]

I'm pleased to say I'm an insider of neither of the organisations you state, but if Now want to keep their route plans secret then they should make sure that info of this nature doesn't go into a semi-public domain otherwise it's bound to end up here (as it just has).

The problem with the BRU schedule? As I see it:

06:00 off LTN to BRU is very early but should be passable
08:20 off LTN to BRU is a bit late - gets you into BRU at 10:30 local
13:45 off LTN to BRU - not a good time for business or leisure
16:15 off LTN to BRU - probably too early for any BRU incoming pax to return from LON for the flight
19:50 off LTN to BRU - too late

08:45 off BRU to LTN probably be OK
11:00 off BRU to LTN - not a good time
16:30 off BRU to LTN will probably be OK
18:55 off BRU to LTN - good time
22:30 off BRU to LTN - might as well be an empty positioning sector

So, out of ten sectors a day, only three or four are at decent timings for business travellers. Brussels doesn't have anything like the leisure travel market that you find on Amsterdam or Paris; if you were doing this schedule on AMS then I think you'd get away with it, but running it on BRU where you don't have much of a leisure market will make it difficult to fill those off-peak sectors.

[LGS6753]

Since the secret's out, I guess it won't be long before Now opens for bookings. They have done well to keep it quiet this long.

Some thoughts:
BRU - not sure, with the speeded-up Eurostar. Also, EU beauraucrats fly Gravy Train Airlines at massive cost whenever possible.
LIS & VLC - both on the original list. One a day is probably sustainable on each.
RTM - does anyone else go there? Is it a thick enough route for 2 737s a day?
BOD & LEI - both stalwarts of flybe, but not from the south-east. Could be very sensible in view of the number of Brits with houses in these areas.
ARN - a surprise one. FR flies to 'Stockholm' NYO (3 daily) & VST (2) from STN, so there is presumably a demand from the city itself.

Whether I'm right or wrong, I wish them well

[sloniger]

Short item on BBC lookeast news last night.

www.bbc.co.uk/lookeast

Budget airlines delays launch again due delay in receiving AOC.

[charterguy]

NOW have really done their homework! NOT. If you launch a new brand, you make sure you have your brand covered, and that includes registering the right domain names, including those that passengers are likely to try when searching for your company, such as www.nowairlines.com or www.flynow.com!!! Fact, neither of these takes you to their website. :confused:

NOW airlines is actually another carrier in the process of being set up in the US. You will find their website at www.nowairlines.com (http://www.nowairlines.com).

Now Airlines US is a work-in-progress, this page is a holding page for a revolutionary new idea in travel.
Unlike traditional airlines and those other "low-cost" airlines, Now Airlines will base it's flights out of a smaller,
regional airports around the US.

We expect to launch our services initally in the Pacific Northwest and the Midwest, with expansion plans that will eventually grow to all 50 states.

For more information, please contact:
Now Airlines US
Attn: Aaron Moreau-Cook
15817 NE 90th Street - E136
Redmond, WA 98052
[email protected]


So where can we find NOW's website ? www.notnow.com ?

CG

PS: Their CEO's face looks familiar. Ex Transjet Sweden ??

[jmc-man]

....and I hear they have no aircraft for their "proving flight".

Did I mention somewhere about experience....??

[charterguy]

Guess what, www.nowairlines.co.uk is also gone, to the same US outfit. They are either planning to expand across the pond, or they are cybersquatters ! ?

And www.nowfly.com is owned by Delhi airport.

Anyone any suggestions as to where one can find their website, NOW Luton that is !!!

CG

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

www.now-airlines.com

Much tidier than the other permutations and is well and truly up and running with regular hits so can't be that difficult to find.

I just did a search on Yahoo! for it and came up with both .co and .co.uk so I really think the critism is unfounded.

[charterguy]

Ttree Ttrimmer

now-airlines.com may be tidy, but not as tidy as nowairlines.com,
and even less tidy than flynow.com.

The only reason 'now-airlines' comes up tops in the search engines, is because the other outfit hasn't launched a website yet.

My point was, that you don't use an online brand, unless you own all domain variations of the brand, effectively preventing others from exploiting your goodwill (once it has been created).

I still maintain that this is a case of bad brand management. But then, that's what happens when airlines are being set up by pilots. They know how to fly aircraft but, more often than not, very little about marketing and branding.

On a final note, would you type easy-jet.com, ezyjet.com, easijet.com or esyjet.com when you wish to book on easyjet ? Of course not. But the point is, Stelios made sure that all these domains are owned by the company and redirected to easyjet's main website.

I think that proves the point for NOW ?

CG

[LTNman]

And what was Go’s web site? www.go.com or www.go.co.uk Don’t think so, and they had no trouble attracting passengers

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

And how many people do a search direct from the address bar? Very few I think. Most use a reputable search engine and possibly as many get emailed the link by a friend recommending the above average service NOW will be offering.

flynow.com is not as likely to be returned after a search string based on Now Airlines because it is missing a vital part of the company title. No demarkation between the 2 words is also difficult to read and even more difficult to type as you have to concentrate on the correct spelling and check each letter where as using the hypen allows a simple glance to confirm correct typing. Tidier and more direct hits rather than lost souls heading to the US sites before gettting where they want to be.

You sound as cynical as JMC-boy.....Could this be yet another alter-ego?

[jmc-man]

Ttree Ttrimmer,

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but there are a lot more cynics out here in the industry than you think, mostly because of the haphazard way in which this team are attempting to start an airline, and no amount of Yahoo-ing by newly recruited employees will change that, I'm afraid.

As I said above, someone has planned and requested from the CAA an AOC proving flight for October 17th, without an aircraft being available to fly it. Furthermore if it went ahead on that date, and the first flight was on December 13th, then there is a cost of approx £500,000 to have an aircraft and crew sitting around doing nothing for that period. And with plenty of capacity in the ad hoc market, the chances of picking up work are nil.

Nothing I have seen so far gives me much confidence that these people know what they are doing. The exception is almoist certainly the Pilot Training department, and , not mentioned anywhere so far, the ex GO Director who is acting in a consultancy basis. I assume he's getting paid for his time up front.

As for the routes, there has already been discussion on here , :-

Brussels - no leisure market, tried by VEX from STN without success
Rotterdam - absolute madness

Stockholm - up against the Ryans

Lisbon - tried by GO for three years without success

Munich - cost GO a lot of money to try this one. May work during the winter ski season , if they can get advertising

Almeria and Valencia - over capacity in that whole market at the moment, with all the Charter boys trying to hold market share.

My tuppence worth.....

( Pleas guys, by all means thrash my views, but again please try to avoid personal insults, it just weakens your arguments)

[VIKING9]

For what it's worth, I think the CAA proving flight is on 13th October and the first revenue flight is planned for 11th December.

As for route selection, I'm not sure BRU will be a winner although it has been operated from LTN before, with London European and a J31 operator who's name escapes me. Both were back in the days when locos were'nt even heard of, although load factors were fairly high. Could prove popular with businesses who wish to keep their costs down when sending people for meetings etc. MUC was popular when Debonair operated it from LTN but the timings weren't that good. LIS has not been flown on a scheduled basis from LTN (Go as we know flew it from STN). ARN is not flown from LTN by RYR so we'll wait and see on that one. LEI and VLC, again, not flown by any loco from LTN so it could prove popular with ex-pats who don't wish to pay higher prices of the non loco operators. Anyway, has the timetable actually been firmed up with these destinations?

As for advertising, I wonder if NOW will use local radio stations to get the word about? Efficient means of advertising and reaching a very wide population.

I see the first 2 aircraft are at STN undergoing maintenance :ok:

[bacardi walla]

Any further news / delays / updates from anyone? It's all gone a bit quiet lately :{

[Buster the Bear]

Rumoured to be getting G-IGO? & G-IGO? ex Go/easyJet currently with FLS at EGSS, first proving flight scheduled for Oct 17th.

[Tenminutes]

Are EZY chopping in their older 733's then for new -700's and A319's ?

[LTNman]

Easy are getting rid of 10 737-300's I believe

[VIKING9]

Proving flight put back again then? Presumably on a NOW aircraft?
Good news.

[bacardi walla]

FLYMATE you seems to be in the know so is there any definate news on the route structure or will that be released once the AOC has been issued ? Makes sense to start selling tickets on 29th, 2 days after the proving flight. AOC should be issued then on 28th if all goes well on 27th !! Thanks

[jmc-man]

How bizarre!

FLYMATE makes a post that the proving flight is happening on the 27th, sales start on 29th and first flight on December 12th.

Then he deletes it.......

It is unheard of to delay sales until after the AOC proving flight. It actually infers a lack of confidence in the Flight Ops team in getting an AOC at all. If the Team is confident of getting an AOC , it would be planned for 4 days before the first commercial flight, and sales would have commenced 3 months before first flight.

Unless the problem is an Operating licence ( The financial end of things)

All very strange.....

[bacardi walla]

Indeed, how bizarre !! Mind you, I heard the CAA proving flight was on 20th, delayed from 13th !!

[thefareguru]

Can anyone tell us if the airline has a 2-letter code yet? I need it for an article about LCCs. Same question for the Italian airline Air Freedom.

[bacardi walla]

thefareguru I have no idea but then after subscribing via the website some months ago, so as to receive updates, I have yet to receive 1 single message from them. I also wonder if the prices shown on the home page will actually be those quoted when seat sales actually start :uhoh: I do hope though that it starts as it plans. :ok:

[thefareguru]

Yeah, I also applied to be on the mailing list on about day 2 of the website coming on and got the same as you.

If they don't do something soon, I may end up creating my own 4-LETTER CODE for them.

[bacardi walla]

thefareguru I did a bit of investigating and disovered that NOW's 3 letter code was "SUN" but has been changed to "NWX". MY source also states that things are actually rolling ahead as planned, although the plan has changed somewhat since they first made an announcement. Like someone else said on here, page 3 or 4 was it, "watch this space"........:mad:

This thread has generated 6 pages so far. What will it go to when they start flying :confused:

[TartinTon]

34 pages? Not sure I can wait that long...

:E

[Tenminutes]

what happened to FLYMATE and his/her comments :{

[Buster the Bear]

With 2 737's being prepared for delivery and a proving fight due shortly, ticket sales will then happen.

I still think that EBBR is a waste of time especially as you will be able to Eurostar it from St Panc (Southern end of Mid mainline) and the Belgian capital!

[bacardi walla]

I hear the 2 733's are at FLS in STN. Anyone seen the livery yet ?
FLYMATE seems also, according to gossip locally, that EZY are delaying release of the aircraft off lease so removing your post is trivial if true :mad:

[LGS6753]

Still nothing from Now....

Winter season starts this weekend. If earlier rumours are to be believed, Now will be flying in just under 7 weeks' time.

Will that be enough time to take sufficient early bookings?

Have any green 737s been spotted yet?

Have the proving flights taken place?

I really hope things get off the ground, but the longer there's no news, the more sceptical I become.

[Lite]

I have been told that the Boeing 737-300s that are in the FLS AEROSPACE hangers in London-Stansted, are in fact G-IGOE, G-IGOF & G-IGOC, the first three aircraft to be delivered to Go Fly that were on lease from GECAS and are being overhauled before being returned to the lessor for a "new client" as their leases with EasyJet/Go have now expired.

Whether or not these new rumors indicate that the three Boeing 737-300s are for Now or for another airline is yet to be seen.

[mothtoaflame]

What is the web site for NOW?:confused: :ok:

[LGS6753]

MTAF -

www.now-airlines.com

[Buster the Bear]

I was told a while back that OC and OE could be involved.

Cutting it a bit fine for the Xmas trade, you might otherwise wait for Easter?

[Lite]

So will Now be launching flights with two or three Boeing 737-300s?

It seems like quite a lot of destinations to be launched with just two planes.

[Powerjet1]

Wasn't Mon 27 Oct mentioned as date of proving flight with ticket sales starting Wed 29 Oct if all went well, or has that since slipped ?.

[Yak97]

Could this be where the GECAS -300's are going?

From - justplanes

FlyMe (Oct 24, 2003)
A new Swedish low cost airline, based at Gothenburg, planning to start operations in early 2004 with a fleet of 3 Boeing 737-300s initially operating from Stockholm to GOthenburg and Malmo.

[Tenminutes]

CAA proving flight is on 27th October and there are 2 733's in with FLS at STN destined for NOW - allegedly :rolleyes:

[jmc-man]

I'm saying nothing...until the 27th.

Anyone think it might be a good idea to update the website to at least encourage people to re-visit to book seats when (or if) they come available.

[Fatter Cat]

I was in the FLS hangar only a couple of nights ago and yes, there were 3 ex-Go 737's in there.

It resembled a Go graveyard, these fine beasts, still resplendent in full Go liveries, and all I must say in many, many parts on the hangar floor.

Didn't look as though they were going anywhere soon!

[Tenminutes]

jmc-man it could be that NOW plan to launch themselves through the national press once the AOC has been issued, that way, a huge amount of people will know about them all at once !!:E

[jmc-man]

Tenminutes,

No, far more likely that they still don't have full financing, and that the balance of the financing is contingent on getting an AOC and the limited funds they have is focused on getting an aircraft to do their proving flight, and that they are in an ever decreasing circle of timing, funds, booking and start-up. So theres no money for website, publicity and all the other stuff at the moment.

Still....proving flight tomorrow, right?

[tailscrape]

jmc man,

Looks like your Champers could be safe for a while yet.

The question is though: Will you let me have some please??:p

[B757RATED]

Mr jmc man, since you seem to know about these things could you explain how the finance for an AOC should actually happen?

As I understand it, for an AOC you should have full finance in place for the first three months of operation without revenue.

I.e. Now Airlines could not get an AOC if the finance covered the proving flight only. Contingent finance would therefore not satisfy an AOC.

Elucidate, explain, expand and just please put some of us out of our misery.

[bacardi walla]

B757RATED well said :rolleyes: I understand from sources very close to NOW that they DO have all the necessary finance in place and not just for an AOC proving flight.....:mad:

[jmc-man]

Yep, happy to do so.

An AOC is a licence from the CAA to operate aircraft for the purposes of public transport undertaking. It should not be confused with an Operating Licence.

An AOC is issued by the CAA's Safety regulation Group. It certifies that you have the necessary resources and experience to operate aircraft for public transport.

An operating licence is issued by the CAA's Consumer Protection Group (CPG, formerly known as the ERG - Economic Regulation Group).

You can see the difference. One is to do with Safety, the other is to do with Finance.

It is possible to get an AOC prior to getting an Operating Licence, ( although , in the case of NOW, one would be meaningless without the other).

When approaching investors, it is normal for them to set a series of pre-conditions that must be met before they release their investing capital. These conditions are called conditions precedent. As an AOC is an essential part of being an airline, it might well be set as a condition prececent to the investment, namely that that the AOC must be issued before the investor's capital is released to secure the operating licence.

I might suggest that the founders of NOW might have raised , privately, just about sufficient capital to cover the cost of getting their AOC, which, if successful, will mean the remaining capital investment required is forthcoming ( we could be talking about the same day, by the way). If this is the case, it would explain why NOW are not in a position to announce routes, sell tickets, put up check-in desks, update websites, and all the other things that would normally be going on at this time.

When it comes to getting an Operating Licence, by the way, 757 rated , you need to show the CAA CPG that you have sufficient capital to operate for three months ( and they decide which are the three representative months) without income. So, they might well decide that the three representative months, in the case of NOW are the three months from when they have 3 aircraft on the books, rather than just one, or two. Of course, trying to apply the logic of saying that you wouldn't take delivery of number 3 if you had been stuck with 2 for three months with no revenue, doesn't wash in the hallow finance halls of the CPG.

I believe there is more details of the requirements for an AOC and an Operating Licence available on the CAA website, if any of you are particularly interested.

[Tenminutes]

jmc-man useful information thanks, and apparently, there is another website waiting in the wings with all the relevant information for when they are good and ready to launch. The current website is advertising for more staff so I suspect things are on track for NOW.

Today is the day of their CAA proving flight, so how about we wish them well for the future. The future by the way, is not necessarily orange or blue and white :rolleyes:

[Powerjet1]

11.30 today, Flight NWX701 to Bordeaux listed on Departures at LTN. Is this the proving flight?. Showing on arrivals at Bordeaux, 14.10 local. Departing back to LTN at 16.00.

[Tenminutes]

Powerjet1 yep, that's the one http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/mcqueen.gif Good luck to all involved..... http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/ogo.gif

[wobblyprop]

now-(flight/jet/fly) 700P is in the air :ok:

[B757RATED]

Thank you for your explanation jmc man. I didn't appreciate the subtle difference in the finance for an AOC and an Operating Licence.

So, in other words, the grant of an AOC does not automatically mead they will get finance for an Operating Licence? I.e they might still have to rattle the tin to get the airline going albeit on a surer footing than previously.

Out of interest Flight International today had an advertisement for an airline requiring START-UP finance. The ad. specifies that an 'AOC application in place' and a requirement for $8m finance to launch the project. The airline mentions flights to N. America so I guess it is nothing to do with Now Airlines.

However, I have not seen such an ad before. I guess is is a sign of the times that finance is really hard to come by unless you really know what you are doing!

See what transpires after the proving flight.

[jmc-man]

757Rated, I suspect they may have somone willing to back them AFTER they have the AOC. The issues with the Operating Licence will depend on how much the CAA CPG deem is the correct amount of capital required, bearing in mind they are planning a start running into the three worst months of the year, namely January, February and March. Bearing mind the average yields available at that time of the year, they would need to be planning on losing in the region of £1M per month. I seem to recall GO's figure for year 1 was in the region of £12M loss, and that was starting in May!

I wish them well today. If the flight is airborne, then there is every chance the AOC is in the bag. the CAA are not prone to carrying out proving flight inspections without some certainty of passing.

With respect to the Ad in Flight it is either another attempt by Blue Fox to get going or this Venture (http://www.bluarrow.co.uk/) .

[Localiser Green]

If the proving flight is successful today, how long before they start taking bookings?

Are we talking tomorrow?

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Understand that today's flight has used the Titan 737.

[Buster the Bear]

I understand that a Titan B737-300 is currently being used for the proving flight, G-ZAPM.

Mr 1 Bravo beat me to it by a minute!

[Flightrider]

I don't think the ad in Flight today is Blue Fox - it's not a European airline. I also read somewhere that Blue Fox has appointed a merchant bank to handle its investment, and if this was the case, one would not expect a merchant bank to quote a Flight International box number for replies.

Key points of the ad:

Start-up finance required
New UK-based scheduled European airline
Four key routes identified, single class cabin
Expansion routes to Europe and N America
AOC application in place
$8m is required to launch the project

I strongly suspect this is Now - who else can it be?

[jmc-man]

I wasn't aware that they were using Titan's aircraft. That would assume that they still don't have access to their own aircraft. The use of another airlines aircraft for the sole purposes of a proving flight is defin ately a first. One must assume that they modified all their manuals to reflect the layout of the Titan Aircraft, that the flight crew completed a Titan OPC to cover the legal (read lease company) requirements, and they still will not get an AOC until such time as they have an aircraft t o put on it. The Titan aircraft can't sit on two AOC's.

In this case, the issue of the AOC will still have to wait until they have their own aircraft.

Bizarre goings on indeed.

The ad could be for NOW, but it's not a very reassuring way to get money in this day and age. Having done a number of presentations to Venture Capital companies in my time, if they say NO, it's difficult as hell to find anyone else to say yes.

[Sean Dillon]

Let me get this straight....

I'm all for welcoming new operators to the UK, it's good news for all of us involved but am I correct in thinking Now Airlines are today gaining their AOC (hopefully!) and only now sourcing the finance to operate (if indeed it is them)....and via the back pages of Flight!!!!!!!

These guys are nothing more than what the CAA term as a "Virtual Airline" i.e. Air Cordial at MAN or Air Foyle as it was at LTN....just an AOC and manuals - nothing more.

Very disapointing....I'm now hoping this advert is not them - some very good guys have moved from the security of EZY to join..

[Localiser Green]

Aircraft just landed at LTN from Bordeaux. Let's hope it went well.

[stalling attitude]

yeah , hope it went well for them . just as a matter of interest has any outfit got as far as the proving flight and then been refused approval because of the way the flight went or is it as i assume that so much work has already been done that this is almost a formality.

[bigredbin]

I only know of one or two but in general they all pass with a few comments and recommendations.

[Powerjet1]

So, anyone know how the PF went?. Anyone prepared to comment. Now.... what happens?.

[25minutes]

apparently GIGOC and GIGOE departed STN-SEN sunday to be re-liveried for NOW

[bacardi walla]

25minutes think you will find they are both still in bits with their wheels firmly on the ground. My source at STN and close to the diamond hangar has heard that EZY will go to any lengths to stop the launch of NOW. Anyone from EZY care to coment :mad:

[mudcity]

GIGOC Arr southend 26th for repaint callsign EZY8012
another due 28th but not sure who they are being repainted for....

[VIKING9]

All this noise of aircraft in bits, or are they, no finance, or is there, mysterious websites etc, all very confusing. I suppose now that the proving flight has been done, more will be revealed - or will it ??? http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/wiggle2.gif

[carlos vandango]

not that long ago, a certain Orange airline yapped their heads off when BA launched GO. They must be still scared of the competition. They should be because these days they're far from 'low cost':uhoh:

[bacardi walla]

B757RATED your previous Out of interest Flight International today had an advertisement for an airline requiring START-UP finance. The ad. specifies that an 'AOC application in place' and a requirement for $8m finance to launch the project. The airline mentions flights to N. America so I guess it is nothing to do with Now Airlines. I think maybe it's AV8 as they have delayed their start up due to the CAA taking longer to process the AOC application.

[eagerbeaver]

i am preparing many hats for the doubters to eat! ho ho i cant wait to get started.

[FLYMATE]

Here, here eagerbeaver. The proving flight went like clockwork. Was speaking to the engineering person in charge of all the stripping down etc, they said it was easyJet dragging their feet, incompetence on their part not knowing how to return an aircraft back to the lessor, ie painted neutral white with XX amount of hours left in the engines etc. As we all suspected it is easyJet trying to sabotage this start up. Then again Now should have thought twice about getting ex easyJet aircraft to launch with I suppose. Everyone is now in place, HR, marketing, ops, rostering, finance, crews and flight crews. The AOC is due to be announced, then tickets go on sale and then all the doubters and cynics can eat their hats...

[bacardi walla]

......and where is jmc-man now then ?? Gone to brush the dust off the champers maybe http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/moon.gif

Well done to all involved in getting this far with NOW. Full steam ahead then from here on......... http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/hyper.gif

[FLYMATE]

jmc-man will be back, he loves to go on and on and on, repeating the same stuff. I think possibly he copies and pastes his previous posts and just pops up with it again. I tell you what, on the proving flight, we all got to meet eachother, and what fun! Pilots, crews, managers, engineers. All eager to get going. Any there was no, "managers sit at the front" mentality, we all just milled around on the flight, chatting and laughing. Well done to the operating crew, the whole airline was watching, and you did us proud.

[JB007]

As a wild stab in the dark, I'd take a guess that the advert in Flight was something to do with Cougar II / Globespan

[bacardi walla]

JB007 yep, that would make sense with Cougar not having 2 beans to rub together http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/hump.gif

Hey, FLYMATE what about the Ops staff, were they there ?

[FLYMATE]

Everyone from the offices were there, including some ops staff, some of course had to be in the ops department...

[Hamrah]

After 7 weeks and ten pages, it would appear it's time to move on with this thread.

Best Wishes and well done to my friends in NOW.

Time for a new thread ( if required)

H