733 On Ppl?

[DavidLucas2002]

Just to clear some things up is it possible to get a type rating for say a 733 on a JAR PPL? as they have no weight ristrictions. Also with a ppl and a type rating i can fly pax but i cannot charge them?. if i want to charge i would have to have a ppl.cpl. That would allow me to do private chater ie flying football teamsaround. but to work for an airline i need ppl.cpl.atpl also the night rating, muliengine rating and so on.Thanks

[flyer4life]

What an odd question! Well in theory you could start such a multi-pilot type rating course with a PPL, but only after you've done all this:

1. 100hrs PIC
2. Multi IR
3. MCC
4. Passed all ATPL exams

By which stage you'd probably already have a CPL!

Doing private charter work isn't as simple as just having a CPL. Commercial transport operations must be run by a company holding an Air Operators Certificate which is no simple thing to obtain.

flyer

[iaf_22]

I can't give u a complete answer, but a part , i can.
the answer is NO.
1) Operating a 733 is IFR only. So if you have enough money to hire a 733 and wanna flight it, you ll have to have w ur PPL an IFR qualification , also don't forget a 733 is a MULTIENGINE aircraft, so you d need a ME qualification, AND it s a 2 pilots operation aircraft .. so after having PPL IFR ME money & another pilot.. sure go ahead ;)

btw : to answer ur second question , you don 't even need an ATPL to fly for an airline... a CPL is enough (having the ME IFR MCC and TR) the difference between CPL and ATPL is just some hours :)

[Gin Slinger]

Apparently one of the Concorde test pilots only held a PPL, so there's hope for you yet.

BTW David, how old are you?

[DavidLucas2002]

Hi thanks every one. 15, 16 april 19th. 5 lessons so far. Been working and saving hard!!

[scroggs]

Military pilots, at least in UK, have no licence at all, as such. Test pilots employed by companies and flying experimental aircraft (which Concorde effectively was for a good while) may well also be exempt.

However, flying a B737 on a PPL (for pleasure?!) is highly unlikely!

Scroggs

[DavidLucas2002]

hi. thanks raf is an option for me but i need the grades 2 a-c alevels etc I could get it if i wanted to.. i doubt id hire infact i know for sure i wouldnt hire a 733 lol cost of fuel etc flipin heck, was just wondering... Thanks

[150Aerobat]

Never knew that a 737 could only be flown under IFR.

Never knew ..."the difference between CPL and ATPL is just some hours"... either.

[DavidLucas2002]

is that sarcasium? if so please state the correct infomation, cos come here to get infomation that i exspeact to have some truth to??

[scroggs]

David, don't worry too much about flying 737s just yet, and don't worry about whether some of the replies are sarcastic or not. Concentrate on getting your PPL and your school qualifications - and I suggest your English could do with some work. Save the dreaming for your own time!

Scroggs

[DavidLucas2002]

why does every body have to comment on my English? I really could not give a FLYING FUK about my spelling. I actually happen to be dislexic and i'm fine with words, numbers and so on. My spelling isn't the best but like I said I don't care. keep your little smart comments to your self please that goes to every body. I'm not intrested. :D. also its not a dream. one day...

[FlyingForFun]

Assuming that all of this is theoretical, because it would be very unusual.... I agree with most, but not all, of the previous answers.

- Since a 737 is a multi-engine aircraft, you must have a multi-engine rating.

- I don't believe there are any rules which prevent a 737 being flown VFR. In fact, if you were at Farnborough last year, you'd have seen the new Airbus being displayed, and I'm pretty sure it was below the altitude which would have been legal for IFR flight. However, you do need an instrument rating to get the type rating.

- I have no idea why flyer4life thinks you must pass the ATPL exams. But you must pass either the IR or the ATPL exams befoer getting your IR, which as I said is a requirement for the type rating.

Once you have your type rating, you can fly the 737 privately. You can also carry passengers, but not for hire or reward. You can cost share with your passengers, but there is a limit to how many people can be on board if you're cost-sharing (I think it's 6? Or is it 4?) Since two of those on board will be you and your co-pilot, that doesn't leave room for too many pax.

If you wanted to fly commercially, it gets much more complicated. All commercial operations must be carried out by a company with an AOC, as flyer4life says - but let's assume that you've got such a company, all the paperwork is sorted out, and it's just your license that you need to worry about. In that case, a CPL would allow you to fly as first officer. To fly as captain, though, you would need an ATPL. I think that what iaf_22 means when he says that the difference between the CPL and the ATPL is "just some hours" is that there is no flight test to get your ATPL. Assuming you did the ATPL exams beforehand (which might not be the case, you might have done the CPL exams then the IR exams) then all you need to do once you've reached the appropriate number of hours (and a few other requirements) is send a cheque to the CAA to get your ATPL.

I think I've covered everything that I'm aware of. But I'm sure there's some small print somewhere that I've missed!

FFF
---------------

[DavidLucas2002]

Thank you very much. thanks for evey body to has submited infomation.

[Obs cop]

David,

Might I just suggest that whilst you may not see your written English as a problem, potential examiners and employers in the aviation industry will highlight it.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but allow me to explain.

Some years ago an airliner nearly crashed because the crew mistook the amount of fuel the aircraft had on board. I believe it was put down to parties reverting to type and failing to notice the different measurements between kilogrammes and pounds.

Flying, especially commercially, is dependant on very accurate paperwork, particularly flight plans, fuel and navigation logs. Even the slightest mistakes can cause massive problems, and ultimately can pose problems to flight safety. Correct English is considered sufficiently important by British Airways that when they ran their sponsorships, there were written tests on grammar and spelling and even after that you could expect to complete a memo writing task. This was in addition to the mathmetical tests checking accuracy and numeracy.

I personally do not have a problem with your typed spelling as I am no angel and often my fingers produce complete gibberish which does not relate to what I thought I was typing!!!! But please don't dismiss written English, as flying is far more than just eye hand co-ordination. If you are determined you will succeed, but often we need to address things which are unpleasant or just damned hard work in order to achieve our aims.

Regards,

Obs cop

[scroggs]

David, as Obs Cop has said, written English is extremely important both in itself and as an indication of your attention to detail. I am sure you will understand how important that is is flying. I know that posting on this or any BB is not tantamount to applying for a job, but your posts do give a strong impression that your English is not good. You may not care very much about it, but your future potential employers will - and, as this is a safety issue, don't rely on any legislation to support your ambition.

Put it another way: improve your English or regard aviation as an impossible dream. Your choice.

Scroggs

[DavidLucas2002]

obs cop I understand fully what you say, its the way the mod person put it. Like I say I couldn't care. My English is fine. and I am NOT going to spend time and care writing a message.

"Put it another way: improve your English or regard aviation as an impossible dream. Your choice." how nice is that? telling a 15 year old that unless his spelling is much better or i can't be a pilot. Nice one. Think possitive, its nice to know i have so much backing. Again wtf man? My English is fine, it is not an impossible DREAM. You will prob pick out mistakes in this post too. but i'm not going to take time to correct them as it is not important and I have a lot of other important things to do like PRATICE MY SPELLING as one would tell me, :). Like i say i know my spelling is not great and dose not need improving. Think possitive my older friend. enjoy your life.

Lets just end this now ok. what is the point in this? there is none. I will still ask my questions, i will speak how i like, i will spell how i like. and nothing will ever stop me from getting my PPL. If any one is reading this and thinking silly 15 year old, hasn't got a clue, well think again. also any one that has the same problems as me dont listen to their silly remarks. obs cop what you said was fine, you explained it and didn't try putting me down. Thats all

[Training Risky]

Booyakasha... (sound of pozzible troll lurking around, lol)

But seriously...

Listen kid, people who have taken the time and trouble to respond to you and give you advice ARE backing you. (That is why they answer back.)

15 years old or not, (I don't care how old you may be), aviation professionals have been giving you advice, and you have made the cardinal sin of throwing it back in their faces.

They have been a lot more restrained than I have, but I feel the need to give you a bit of a chest poking, (if you are serious about becoming a pilot that is. If you are not, you won't care anyway.)

Get over this chip on your shoulder you have about dyslexia. Your English is NOT 'fine'. If it was, you would take more care over how you use a keyboard, which is much less forgving than a pen and paper if you make a spelling mistake. If you can't use a relatively easy Microsoft Word package, how will you handle a memo pad/flightplan/SID/STAR chart....?

You have a lot to learn, I suspect that written communication and numeracy are just one of many obstacles you will need to conquer if you are to become a pilot.


Training Risky.

[PA-28 CLOUD SURFER]

David you may be fifteen but not caring is not the ideal way to start an aviation career.

You are obviously feeling as if people on this site are 'having a dig at you' but you really should take their constructive criticism and use it to your advantage. As stated and stated during this post care over your basic English can be a huge part of flying, the safety of your aircraft and the people in it, so just think about what you are being told and stop getting so defensive.

No one is putting you down, no one is telling you that you can't do it but are only trying to open your eyes to the real aviation world.

Aviation has been my dream since I was 6 and now I am about to start my CPL over in the states. I have taking criticism in the past but I used it to get to the point I am at now, six months from starting a job (hopefully!!).

These are just my passing thoughts, do what you will with them, it really doesn't bother me but I do wish you the best for the future

Cloud surfer
:ok:

[flyer4life]

FlyingForFun,

I have no idea why flyer4life thinks you must pass the ATPL exams.
:rolleyes: I wasn't thinking, I was stating a fact. Check the pre-requisites for a first multi-pilot type rating in LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_F.pdf) . The ATPL theory syllabus includes areas the CPL/IR syllabus lacks. One such area is Performance A, which a type rating course would assume a trainee knows all about.

Since a 737 is a multi-engine aircraft, you must have a multi-engine rating.
Only a multi IR. You don't need a valid multi-engine class rating (MEP) as this applies only to single-pilot light pistons. Of course, you do need the MEP to get the multi IR in the first place. The reason an MEP is not listed in the pre-requisites is because if your MEP has lapsed, you can still start a type rating course providing you have a current multi IR.

[Obs cop]

David,

I hope you reach your goal of being a pilot, but I do feel you have a lot of ground to cover. I hope that, because you have so far displayed one of the most unattractive features which the flying community tries to avoid and which would almost certainly prevent any employer from offering you a job.

Again I will explain.

The flying world is inherantly dangerous to any person who is unwilling to develop any and ALL of their skills and attributes. The worlds worst aviation disaster involving 2 747's came about due to a lack of what is know as CRM or cockpit/crew resource management. In effect, the Captain was so overbearing that the First Officer dare not question him. When the Captain made an error, it was noticed but went unchallenged and hundreds then died when the 2 planes hit in thick fog on the runway.

The development is that virtually everyone in aviation now questions poor standards and as you have found, this also translates into these forums. No-body likes being challenged, its a simple fact of life, but ignoring a challenge or being stubborn ultimately gets people killed. In effect, several people, myself included have advised you to work at your English. Some were more blunt than others, but the advice is just as valid no matter who said it or how they said it. The only person who will lose or gain from the advice is you, and no-one gains anything from putting you down.

The fact that you are so adamant that there is not a problem and that you don't care, are the undesireable traits that have claimed many lives in aviation and which have been fought against for decades. I don't know you or your abilities, but I have seen this one trait (and no doubt I am not alone). If you attack any criticism which is unsavoury then I fear your connection with aviation will be short lived. I have two pieces of advice that would help you greatly, and could even save your life in an aircraft.

1. If someone gives advice or criticises your perfomance then firstly look at yourself, then you can decide if it is justified or not. Just be aware that you may not always understand the reasoning behind it at the time, but it will be clearer further down the road.

2. Never attack someone, just because they offer criticism. There are very few people in the aviation community who say things out of spite (and you have yet to meet them!!!!!). More often than not they are trying to prevent you from finding things out in a harder more painful way. If an instructor said my landings were cr@p then I take it that they are stopping me from killing myself until I first master the technique. They are not being difficult or obstructive, they are just bluntly and firmly identifying areas I need to work on.

I don't care if you are 15 or 50, I don't see you as a dreamer or a wannabe. But if you brought your current attitude to criticism to the cockpit, you would find yourself alone and unemployed and that is not me being nasty just the harsh reality of aviation.

Regards,

Obs cop

[BillieBob]

And, FlyingForFun, who told you there was no flight test for the ATPL? Check out JAR-FCL 1.295.

[DavidLucas2002]

"15 years old or not, (I don't care how old you may be), aviation professionals have been giving you advice, and you have made the cardinal sin of throwing it back in their faces." No way. All my posts that people have replyed to i have printed off the infomation and I have made use of it. I am not disrespeact full. the people i thew the infomation backinto their face or should i say person is that moderator. Its the way he put it. The rest of you who commented on my spelling done it in a kind way, and gave reasions for it. I also took note. Just leave it now, i have the infomation I wanted on this topic, also I have had enough infomation on my spelling for a life time

[anti-skid]

DavidLucas2002,

thus mist bi a wynd up. no one spills that poorlee.

Unfortunately people judge others by such things.

How would you feel if your doctor wrote you a prescription
saying "Tak twise dayly yil beta"...?

Come on- we all have our weak points, you're lucky yours is
just spelling :)

Take it easy and good luck:ok:

[DavidLucas2002]

Thanks, but my spelling isn't that bad.