Other careers, equally bizarre

[Rote 8]

We all know what a bizarre industry aviation is to enter, where candidates are willing to pay for the privilege of submitting their CV’s after incurring huge financial expense to train themselves to the appropriate standard with no guarantee of a favourable outcome at the end.

Purely out of interest does anyone know of similar careers where too many dedicated individuals pursue too few vacancies in the hope of securing their ‘dream job’?

Moderators – apologies, this thread clearly has no direct relevance to professional pilot training but I feel it may be of interest.

[witchdoctor]

Sport (especially football), modelling and the entertainment industry. All run by crooks preying on dreamers.:suspect:

[mrbungle]

Every career in Ireland up to about 7 years ago !!

There was no free fee's in any of the Uni's unless you were means tested and then got a grant.

When I started in '92 fee's were IRL£2000 per year and upkeep in digs and food / travel / beer, IRL£3500, not including books, cos I didn't buy any !!

So your looking at about IR£5500 per year. From '92 the prices were going up about 7-8% per year.

Over 4 years lets guestimate about IRL£22,000 in todays money, a direct conversion to Euros is just under €28,000, and that without inflation, which has been running at an inordinately high rate compared to the rest of Europe.

It would be safe to say that inflation has been running at a very conservative average of 3.5% in Ireland over the last 10 years.

So, 3.5% compounding on €28,000 = €39,500.

That would easily pay for my modular training !!

But wait, I just did a Masters and I paid, €14,000 for that over 2 years part time.

Yikes !!

That nearly a type rating for Ryan Air !!

Oh, well at least I have them for when I get furloughed in a few years down the road, HA-HA, (small tone of cynicism !!)

;)


By the way: The government is looking to re-introduce fee's.

[autosync]

Ha ha ha,

Actually, hang on, I suppose that means in a way I am just as sad as any of the fools on Pop Idol, oh no, oh god no....
What have I become?

It is such a an obscene industry this flying biz, with so many hidden costs, not helped by all the clueless Walter mitty's who"Dream of flying" who have played flight sim once to many times, and are willing to work for next to nothing,
take huge loans out,
pay for all of the ratings, pay for there uniforms and pay for all of there essential equipment, that really should be provided if its is essential in the course of work duty,
also work unreasonable hours for no extra pay, if they get work.

I can think of no other industry were this is the norm, in fact I am sure there has got to be some law somewhere against this carry on in any industry.

We are being screwed folks, Screwed left right and center, and we are being screwed because employers know that there is always somebody willing to work for less and pay for everything.

Will it ever change?

[Rote 8]

I was thinking of industries that are comparable to aviation in that small groups of individuals retrain themselves at great personal cost and undergo similar problems in order to try and find that elusive position. Point taken about sport, modelling and entertainment, in the sense that there are thousands chasing after a handful of jobs, but do those people chasing the positions have to fork out enormous amounts of their own hard earned to get a foot on the ladder or undertake similar training at their own expense? (Perhaps they do I don’t know). At the time of posting I was thinking perhaps of Commercial Diving – e.g. rig work etc, Professional sailing, motor racing etc. None of these are things that I know a great deal about, just wondered if the barriers to entry where similar

[Cait Sith]

The only parallel I can think of is in the theatre.. or possibly music.. (I have some experience of both). Aspirants may not have to shell out the vast amout we pilot wannabes do, but they're exploited and expected to work for nothing for years, and to consider it a privilege to be working at all.
Isn't part of the problem in the masochistic semi-pride many of us take in our situation? As in "Hey, it's cost me my life, but that proves how dedicated I am?... Justwannafly...!" ?..
Doesn't that leave us open to exploitation? Perhaps if we could be just a bit more laid back..? :hmm:

[Captain Condom]

About 18 years ago, fresh out of Uni, I decided that being a commercial diver was going to make me rich. Accordingly I paid 4,000 pounds to do a three month air diving course at Fort William, Scotland to get the basic qualification to become a diver on an oil rig. After failing to get a job I eventually ended up in IT which paid off the debt, then eventually paid for the flying. I'm now flying a turboprop in New Zealand.

Diving has many similarities to flying. You paid for the course which gave you the equivalent of a CPL. If you knew people or were very lucky and networked very hard, you might get that elusive first job. It may have been overseas (eg the Gulf) or what was called civils (civil enginerering - long hours in shallow water.) Then, as your experience built and you made contacts, the jobs would come easier.

After a couple of years you could train to become a mixed gas (saturation diver). That was where the really big money was. In those days the peak in the North Sea was over, but even then for a month in saturation you would earn 10,000 pounds (limited to 3 months a year, although you could do air work in between on about 4,000 a month if I remember.

But, very similar to flying. You had to know people to get that first job. You could increase your prospects by buying more ratings (eg non-destructive testing) but it still boiled down to being in the right place at the right time - if you knew somebody they would ensure that you were in the right place at the right time, but there were lots like me that just couldn't get that first job.

So, flying isn't the only career where you pay for training, but it is far more expensive than diving, and much harder getting the qualifications. No wonder within a few years of getting your first airline job, most pilots become bolshie and militant. Having worked so hard and paid so much, we are now not goig to work for free and are going to use our muscle.

[Lloydm]

The Profession that comes to mind for me is Accountancy.

I was in the industry for 17 years before going to study Accountancy..................7 years of very hard training with no guarantee of ever being rewarded for the sacrifices being made.
Supply exceeds demand just like Law, Medicine and Aviation and countless other fields. We all dream of reaching the top, but the reality is few do.

The best advice I was given before joining the Profession was:

If you want to make money become a joiner. By the time you have finished your training the person who does your woodwork will have earned far more than you and you will never catch up unless your the one in a hundred who reaches the top.

Do it because its in you,and you love it, and with a lot of determination and even more luck you may make a living.

Whatever your dreams Good Luck

[TheHustler]

'LloydM' you are full of c**p. Accountancy is not like that at all! if you have the qualifications (which employers pay for 99% of training most of the time! i 3-4K professional courses) then you can walk into a job earning 30-40K no problemo, at little or no cost to yourself! get yuo facts straight. just like doctor or solicitor training..the government or your firm will pay for you to get qualified!!!!!
'Rota 8' The industry you reffered to earlier-Motor racing seems to me a bit like the airline business in some respects! Did you knowthat some racing drivers do (or use to in the recent past) have to Actually 'pay' to race in a team! can be up to a million$ etc, whilst your schumacher is getting 25 million dollars, some teams like minardi etc charged drivers to race! now that is expensive!:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

:( oh yeah forgot tometion Lloyd,m...supply exceeds demand? does it..strage i thought it was the other way around! ther are tons of jobs going in the rpofessions and to confues aviation with it is a joke and tottally mis-informed! IE; there are 12000 pilots qualified in UK compared to over 100,000 accoutants etc and the same number of solicitors! so hardly the same level is it!??
get your facts straight:ok:

oh yeah 'rota 8' forgot to mention, there was a guy local to me who got offered a drive in the British touring car championship driving at Oulton Park, Donnington park, etc and he had to find 250 grand for one seasons racing! pricey!

[PA38]

Not in the same league (outlay) but I spent £300 16 years ago to get my class one PCV (bus driving licence).

I am now earning £25000 a year + bonus in a transport related job, I could not have got without my years of driving busses.

Not just lucky but I work in an industry that judges people on ability not on how much money they have to pay for type ratings.

If I had £20000 16 years ago I might flying for a living, but perhaps not earning much more.

[strafer]

It still surprises me that on this, and related threads, some people seem to have no idea of basic economics. If you're an airline company and the supply of potential pilots is so much greater than demand that people are willing to pay for their type ratings etc, why on earth would you pay it for them? If you can find an airline co that exists to give you an opportunity to fly rather than to make money, then good luck to you.

If you want to make money, do something else. If you want to fly for a living, do what it takes.

PS I think you'll find that the supply v demand equation is the other way around in law, due to the number of clumsly tw*ts suing everyone they can think of because they can't sit on a chair properly.

[silverknapper]

CC - fair play mate!! Would say that the diving may be cheaper, bloody dangerous though!!! If I fail my writtens might have to get the phone no from you!!!!
Lloyd - agree with strafer. I have never seen a more secure job than accountancy. So you may not make partner and get £300k, poor you!! As strafer says you all get at least 30k, go home at night and don't die of stress. Your firm has paid for your CA, taxes paid for your degree until recently. So whats your problem?!
PA38. Reckon you'd be earning a lot more by now!

Rant finished!

SK

[no sponsor]

Perhaps starting your own business.

Most that I know who have done this have gone through considerable financial pain and heart-ache in the first few years of getting a business up and running - often just using savings instead of drawing a salary for 2 years or more. A couple of people I know (and worked for) have gone on to be very successful, making money that only a few of us can imagine. One in particular was made redundant in 1990, started his own business on the redundancy money (some 16K), eventually selling it and pocketing £260m in 2001 (yes you read the figure correctly). Someone lent him a £1000 when he was short of cash at the beginning, and got 1.5% of the company - that guy, an employee, made just over $15m in 7 years (not a bad investment). Still, he worked all hours, seven days a week, to make his business work, and had times where it was on the brink of going under.

Other's I know have failed, and lost everything; some brush themselves off and start again, others go back to a 'regular' day job.

Bizarrely, most of these people have an interest in General aviation. The guy who lost everything, had to sell his warbird and his twin when the lawyers came to repossess everything. 10 years later, he has started a new business, and has his own plane again, and a couple of houses dotted around the world.

In reality, all are just like wannabes, although for most, it can be a very hard, tough and unforgiving world. I suppose some get addicted to it, as it can be fun and rewarding, as much as flying.

[PA38]

silverknapper

Why do you think I should be earning more, I have no paper qualifications and have got where I am now on my OWN ability and NOTHING else.
How many others can say that?