A320 checklist

[basics52]

1- When do Airbus SOP´s call for a SECURING checklist to be performed ?

I see an airline using plain Airbus SOP´s perform a complete securing when a crew change takes place even if the other guys are waiting at the gate...

2 - Those of you not using Airbus SOP´s ,
do you shut ADIRS´s , O2 , no smoking signs , emerg. exit lights etc in the previous case ????

Thanks

[This message has been edited by basics52 (edited 11 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by basics52 (edited 11 October 2000).]

[atomic]

We don't have a 'secure' checklist per se, it is just a list at the end of the normal procedures section in our manual. We do it only for a terminating flight, when we know that the airplane will overnight etc.
ADIRS, as you mentioned, are turned off every time we do the 'Parking' checlist, after every flight. The 'secure items' are: 1. Oxygen crew supply
2.CRT's
3.Cockpit lights
4.No smoking sign
5.Battery switches
all to OFF
and turn off APU and APU bleed if they were on.

[mcdude]

We use 98% Airbus SOPs. The FCOM does not qualify when this checklist should be performed (at least not that I can find...)

However our company SOPs call for it when more than one hour is to elapse between actual on-blocks time and scheduled off-blocks time for the next flight, and obviously the last flight of day.

[basics52]

Thanks for your inputs !

Atomic :

When you say you turn the ADIRS´s OFF on every parking check list , does that mean you make a full allignment every leg ??
Sounds like too much for me , maybe I misunderstood you...

mcdude :

Your ailine policy sounds pretty wise to me .
I just don´t see the need to shut almost everything off just because of a crew change.
A/I shoud give more guidance on this I feel .

[Mr Benn]

We have a "secure" checklist which should be used for when a crew are not handing over the aircraft to another crew. Turning off the ADIRS is not on any part of our checklist but if handing to another crew they have to do a full align so I tend to switch the ADIRS off if I will be leaving the aircraft. If its another sector for the same crew we do a quick align unless they have drifted off alot during the sector and then we'll do a full align.
Our secure checks include those items atomic mentioned, although if handing over to an engineer we generally leave the APU running.

It is my pet hate when crews decide to do a secure check and turn all the screens off, all the radios off, and all the lights off, when I am waiting at the door. So if you do that. DON'T!

[Jurassic Jet Man]

UAL does a full align on every leg - we turn off ADIRUS on every termination - doesn't matter if there is a crew change or not. I don't see the big deal about shutting down and restarting the alignment process. It zeros out any errors etc.

The NO SMOKING light OFF when securing for the night etc. tickles me. I am all ears to hear what anybody has to say about that.I have asked a dozen "qualified" people about that and rx's a dozen different answers, all amounting to a hill of beans.

Vent forth blokes and blokettes.........

[atomic]

Hey Jurassic ! I took some time to go through the FM and the study guide and the recurrent questions and couldn't find any reference to the reason for turning off the "no smoking" signs to secure the plane.
The only mention is in the unofficial "The A320 Personalized Instructor" where Sean Brown (UAL Pilot Instructor) says that the Emergency Exit sign batteries can only be charged when:
1. The Emer Exit light switch is not on
2. The Emer Light switch on the aft flight attendant panel is not on
3. DC Ess Sched bus is powered
4. No Smoking selector is off.

Does that have to do with some of the cabin modules (still)installed that have the Exit signs on when the no smoking switch is on??!!
I have no clue.

And for basics 52: Yes, I think the full alignment every flight/ leg is a fine idea since it starts the whole process from scratch and whatever the system did on the last leg, we're giving it the chance to do it better now, and it only takes a few minutes anyway. And the most important thing: I'm there when it aligns, I check if the 'on bat' function checks properly should everything electrical go south. My attitude is that this is as important as doing a fire check prior to every flight. What is the philosophy behind your procedure to keep them on?!

[mcdude]

OK, referring to the AI FCOM SOPs - "Securing the Aircraft";

"Switching off the NO SMOKING signs permits the emergency batteries to be charged (provided external power is supplying the aircraft network)."

[airbuswhiz]

Basic52:

We operate our 320/330's from our own SOP's with the Airbus SOP's inserted as needed. On every turn-around flight we do a quick align as most have mentioned to zero out the G/S or any errors. We will do a "securing" C/L when we have about one or more hours of a crew change. This ensures that they do the initial overhead checks and fresh align of the IR's. We are not perfect, but it does work.

Cheers...

[Boxer]

Here is a quote from the FCOM re emergency exit lights.....DESCRIPTION
EXIT signs come on if cabin altitude gets too high or (depending on the CIDS/CAM programming), if NO SMOKING signs come on.


The proximity emergency escape path marking system, overhead emergency lighting and EXIT signs come on if the EMER EXIT LT selector is ON or if the EMER pushbutton on the purser panel is pressed.


With the EMER EXIT LT selector at ARM :

The proximity emergency escape path marking system comes on if :

Normal aircraft electrical power fails or,


DC SHED ESS BUS is lost.



The overhead emergency lights come on if :

Normal aircraft electrical power system fails or


DC SHED ESS BUS fails or


AC BUS 1 fails



Exit signs automatically come on if :

Normal aircraft electrical power system fails or


DC SHED ESS BUS fails




When lighted :

The proximity emergency escape path marking system is powered by internal batteries of 12 minutes duration.


DC SHED ESS BUS supply the overhead emergency lights and the EXIT signs.

If DC SHED ESS BUS fails, batteries inside the light fixtures power all the lights.


DC SHED ESS BUS charge the internal batteries if :

EMER LT selector is not at ON and


the EMER pushbutton on purser panel is not pressed and


DC SHED ESS BUS is supplied.

I think that about covers the emergency lights....






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Dont forget you wont be leaving empty handed!

[This message has been edited by Boxer (edited 13 October 2000).]

[basics52]

Atomic

My philosophy for not fully alligning the ADIRS on every leg and sometimes not even when receiving an aircraft on transit...
Hmmm , you got me in throuble now
It´s just that after doing full allignments for so many years and doing quick ones now for for 2 years I honestly don´t see any difference in navigation accuracy or other parameters.
Airbus FCOM´s say not even a quick on´s neccesary if less than 5 kts GS remain shown ,
well not for me.
I do at least a quick one with a Gate coord. entry.
The aircraft screws up consistently or makes good consistently at the airports we go irrespective of the kind of allignment we made before departure.
As far as checking the batt. backup well you guys may also have a point there , now , my good F/O will lose it anyway after the 5 min. and I will have the No. one or three option so thats the way I made peace with that .
Our route structure can make us do up to 8 legs a day or it can only be one 4 to 6 hour leg per day.

[Jurassic Jet Man]

Ultimately it comes down to following SOPS or having them changed. We are required to do a full align - period. The time savings doesn't mean anything since you can't turn the plane in less than half an hour anyway, and a full align is about ten minutes

Atomic - I went around this NO SMOKING sign crap with SAMC - for a while - ultimately they conceded it to be balls - they reckoned we might save a few signs from burning out!

Typical Airbus stuff - fed bull**** by the company too. Lack of solid info is tiresome.

It is a lot easier to get good tech info from Boeing. Nice plane the bus - shame about the TK weanies etc.

[SECs Machine]

Our SOPs call for fast align on a turn around. We only carry out a full align if GS is greater than some figure I can't remember or position monitor says greater than 5 in some line or other. Generally a fast align is fine on GPS equipped aircraft as I believe the ADIRUs realign on application of TOGA/FLX to the runway reference pooint

Our secure checks require fuel pumps, batteries, ADIRUs, APU, No smoking and emergency exit lights off. Crew Oxy goes off if it's the last flight of the day. Generally we don't secure if there's another crew waiting or if handing over to an engineer.

JJM - we regularly used to turn around our A319s in less than thirty minutes, but it was a most unpleasant affair. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[basics52]

TKS to All for your feedback.

Could anyone help me understand the logics behind this Airbus SOP ?

QRH 3.01... calls for the Pilot Flying to "obtain ATC clearence" , and yes ,I see them grabing the mike and do it so.

Then on p. 3.02 it also calls for the PNF to do the same .

( At the beginning I thought that meant together and that the PF would tell the PNF to get it , hmm not so )

Q. Why do they want the pilot who will not be handling the radios to grab the mike and obtain it himself ???????


It also hapens to be that the PF will reach that point on the flow where the PNF is doing the 360 ... hope nobody gets a clearence alone ....

Q. Now , who is the PNF supposed to " Obtain ATC clearence " from later at the end of his flow as stated on 3.02 ??

[jtr]

Jurrasic, had a squiz at the 330 manual (much the same as the 320 I am led to believe), and it's much as someone said earlier. The bat for the o/head lighting, floor prox lighting, and exit sign lighting, will not charge unless all of the following are satisfied...

AC Bus 1 on
DC Shed ESS Bus on
EMER lt, No Smoking, both off,
etc..

p.s. who is SAMC? ..... maint. control??

[basics52]

All of our 319´s do not require the no smoking to be off .
off or auto will do it plus the other requirements. Would have to check on our 320´s to make shure on those

[Silky]

In response to the PF versus PNF on ATC clearence, the PF does so to be ablr to programe the FMGC for departure, HE/SHE is now pf but during taxi is CM2, hope that helps a little :) :)

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Gravity always wins....

[basics52]

TKS Silky ,

Do you fly Airbus SOPS ?

[Silky]

I'm afraid so......they are not too bad except for a few fighting points! :) :)

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Gravity always wins....

[basics52]

Great ! , so tell me pls. how does your company interpret and implement this .

PF will get the clearence himself when he gets to that point in his flow to do so, weather the other pilot is or not in the cockpit ?

What do you interpret then when on the PNF flow it also states ,ATC clearence obtain.
From the PF ?

Is that the way it's meant to be ?

Generally speaking I don't have throuble with Airbus SOP's , curious abaut this one...