Why? Can't you get into the plane!

[Krallu]

Hi there!

I do wonder. If you say that an airline are closing the check in 30 minutes before departure. And then people coming too late are not getting in. The time is of course different with different airlines.

But why are you not allowed to get in after last check in time? The plane is still standing there, why can't you get on board?

And why and to what do the airline need the 30 minutes before departure? Why do the people need to be checked in 30 minutes before? There must be a reason why you can't change the number of passengers 30 min before dep.??

Thanks!

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Various reasons:

It says so on your terms ans conditions of the ticket.

The Captain has signed the tech log stating the wt. of the a/c and number of pax on board.

The cabin crew are securing the cabin and briefing the pax.

It may take 1/2 hour from shutting doors to lining up for departure.

There may be a slot delay, that ops are doing their best to bring forward, so that the plane may leave immediatly.

If you're checked in and late, your bags may already have been offloaded, and the handlers aren't going to p*ss around putting them back on again.

Your seat may already have been given to a stand-by pax.

If it's a low-cost airline, they've now got your money (no refunds!), and that from the pax who has now bought your seat.

You're big enough and old enough to get to the airport on time on your own.

[jettesen]

Depends on the size of the terminal too! How long will it take you to get from check-in to the gate? You can't guarantee that you will go straight to the plane. Time and time again you tell the pax to go straight to the gate, and they go duty free shopping thinking they have enough time still. The bags are checked in, but the main bulk of the bags have gone to the aircraft, therefore so too have the baggage handlers, and your bags are still sitting in the baggage bins under neath check-in. Also, the weights and fuel have to be worked out for the flight deck to program into their computers. They won't know this until check-in has closed.

If the aircraft has an air traffic departure slot, ( which in most cases they do), the airline has around 10 mins to close doors and become airbourne. If you are not airbourne in this time, you miss the slot and you may have to wait a long time for another one to become available.

Aircraft are not taxi's so you can not call them back or hold them back. They have to stick to strict time schedules and it is vital that they make them. There is a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes before an aircraft can depart, therefore the need for the check-in to close on time is critical.

The paper work for weights, and loading is not done at the aircraft, but in the ground handlers offices, which could be 10 mins away from the aircraft. So 30 mins is not a lot of time to apply any changes to the Passenger loads or baggage.

Don't forget that once the check-in closes the staff have moved on to check in another flight. They have not finished their work. So there are also staff problems. Also once the baggage handlers have loaded the bags, they too move on to another aircraft.

[strafer]

Remarkable!

Someone with no knowledge of aviation practices posts a question and is answered in a civil manner (by a very civil pilot)with (almost) total restraint from sarcasm.

Perhaps pprune is growing up?

(Mind you there's still time....)

[spekesoftly]

Perhaps it is also worth mentioning that EZY check-in desks now close 40 minutes before scheduled departure time.

[spork]

Interesting points, politely put! I loved that TV programme featuring EasyJet where pax were regularly turning up with myriad excuses as to why they were special and must get on the plane. Once they discovered that their “charm” wasn’t working, they would then use abuse, shouting and fist banging. Great to see them being turned away with courtesy.

[Sheep Guts]

It adds to the delays Krallu. If you turn up late and they decide to put you on. They will do the following:

1. Ammend the Load sheet and Manifest
2. Bump the Standby thats in your seat
3.Also off load that standby pax bags if checked
4. load your checked bag
5. Captain has to sight and check and sign the New Paper work after its printed.
6. F/O may have to call for start and push back again.

The list goes on, and doing all these things again cause delays. And at the end of the day, delays have to be explained and categorised in codes which determine the Company Performance. Which in turn determines the Cut Backs the beans counter have to do after being directed by Management to make cut backs. Vicious circle really.

So generally its undesireable. And the most important "no no" you would have achived is P##OFF THE OTHER PAYING PASSENGERS WHO ARRIVED ON TIME AND WANT TO MAKE CONNECTIONS LATER OR YOU MAY HAVE DELAYED THEIR PLANS IN DOING SO!

So thats why the Captain will say no, no extras, "Doors Closed is doors closed" otherwise why operate a Scheduled Service in the First Place?

If you want to be late, save up and get your Own Corporate Plane. Then youll never be late and the Crew will be at your whimsical Command for anything and wait around for hours just for you.


Regards
Sheep

P.S. Sorry Krallu no ifs or buts just bye bye see ya next time buddy.

.uhoh: :cool:

[Krallu]

Hi there!

Thanks a lot for all information.

Actually I've never been in such a situation myself, but I've seen Easyjet on TV and seen others in the situation.

I'm currently a PPL pilot so I do understand the time before departure.

But I have had some discussion about this topic and I wasn't sure about exactly what the time is used for. Some things I know but I appreciated replys from people in the business to tell me all the things that are actually done, because you are more involved.

Also then I know more about what happens to add to my education.

Just curious to know.

Thanks for your help. Please add more info if there are anything worth mention.

[Flight Level Zero]

While everything said is valid, the most important factor is the pax who is trying to get on. If he knows he can get away with a 20 minute check-in then 20 minutes will become the norm, this then become 15 etc etc.

At small airports it is not uncommon for passengers to turn up when the doors are closed and the aircraft has left or is leaving the stand and demand that the aircraft comes back for them.

I find it amazing that the less a so called business passenger pays for his ticket the more he expects and the more abusive he is likely to be when he is refused. While I refer to he, women are just as bad if not worse when it comes to being abusive.

[jettesen]

Just to let you know, the easyJet doccumentary is back this friday for a new series ( 7) on ITV. More fun and games to be seen! They are filming for an 8th series at the moment too. Should be wuite interesting this time as it includes Go as well.

[LateLandingClearance]

Should be wuite interesting this time as it includes Go as well

Or, more likely, it will just be another half-hour every week of the same old stories, just with different faces...

Opening Credits
Scene 1 - "no, you're too late to check in".

Scene 2 - "Last minute dash to get forgotten passport to airport".

Commercial Break

Scene 3 - "what do you mean the flights been delayed? So, I can't see my hand in front of my face because of the fog, surely your just picking on me"

Scene 4 - "Heartwarming story about disabled child/OAP/Honeymoon couple going on holiday"

Closing Credits

I don't think I'll be holding my breath for new material to come on screen :zzz:

;)

[Colonel Blink]

Too true, because they've done the attractive blonde check-in chick recovering from cancer and the former England rugby player becoming an FO.

Makes a change though from airport - animal man deals with dog that's escaped/snake that is ill, manager woman in terminal finds lost/sick south east asian elderly person who speaks no English, stupid lass who drags folks round to do their duty free shopping (not capable of making choices the rich and famous??)

[spork]

C'mon chaps - you forgot: 1) Do I really need my passport just to go abroad? 2) Are you sure my passport has to be valid? and 3) Well yesh I do of coursh know that I'm completely pished out of my mind - but what difference does that make?

[yakker]

"The Captain has signed the tech log stating the wt. of the a/c and number of pax on board"

How do you know what the weight of the passengers and their luggage is? My suitcase is weighed but I'm not, and some passengers are taking the p**s with their 'hand luggage' weighing more than my suitcase. I have seen hand luggage checked but not often.

[amanoffewwords]

And not forgetting "wadda ya mean my flight left yesterday? Oh no, now how am I going to get to Auntie Jean's 100th Birthday in Barcelona, which I hasten to add I've only know about for 99 years so please forgive for getting the date wrong"!

ps. re the last Q. I'm sure they use an average weigth - it's not precise science - and if it's a Friday night commuter from Frankfurt/Milan etc add 50 kgs for hand language carried by those who cannot lower to wait at the carousel...

[pilotwolf]

Standard passenger masses are used:

Adults 86kg for non charter and 76kg for charter,
Children 35kgs for both.

Based on aircraft with more than 30 seats, (I think!)

Stand to be corrected though.

[Memetic]

Standard passenger masses are used: Adults 86kg for non charter and 76kg for charter, Children 35kgs for both. Based on aircraft with more than 30 seats...

Eh? Charter passengers are assumed to weigh less on average?

Can anyone explain the logic on this one?

[SquawkModeA]

It's a JAR regulation, are you sure there is actually logic behind it? ;)

But my guess is that charter passengers are estimated to carry less hand luggage.

[paulo]

All very plausible stuff about paperwork, off loading bags etc.

Except that 30 mins before departure, the aircraft might not have even arrived yet. ;)

[pilotwolf]

Eh? Charter passengers are assumed to weigh less on average?

..I wondered that too - having watched the 'average' charter pax board! :uhoh:

Baggage has a separate average weight that can be used - that I can't remember!

SquawkModeA - JAA and logic = NOT a hope! :)

[yakker]

Jettesen

In your post you said "The paper work for weights, and loading is not done at the aircraft, but in the ground handlers offices, which could be 10 mins away from the aircraft. So 30 mins is not a lot of time to apply any changes to the Passenger loads or baggage."

If they are using standard figures, passengers weights is not a problem, one more passenger and luggage would make no difference to the aircraft W+B.
More a case of the aggravation.

As my Dad always said "better to be half hour early than 5 minutes late"