UAS hours into PPL

[rich49]

Hi all,
I am looking into the UAS, and have discovered that 90 hours are gained over three years of flying. A PPL is not however awarded as it does not follow the PPL sylabus. How is a PPL obtained through military flying hours? Do you just have to sit the PPL skills test, RT and ground exams, or do you have to follow a conversion?
Thanks for your help.
Richard

[Lucifer]

1) UAS is not the way to PPL if you are not interested in military flying - you are taking the place away from someone else.

2) All Single-Engined Piston hours are counted towards the PPL, but the requirement still have to be fulfilled - this includes more medium-level nav, VHF RT (not much different), square circuits etc, most ground exams that are not covered by the UAS.

3) Unless you are joining up, you won't be in the UAS for 3 years - 2 years in the maximum before application for the RAF is encouraged. With good weather the syllabus could be completed - with poor you could only have 40 hours at the end of it.

4) There was an agreement with the CAA I believe to award the PPL with a couple of extra sorties and tests, though I don't know what became of that - perhaps ask in Military Aircrew forum.

PS it's not 'free' flying any more - you have to work for it.

[down&out]

As an "ex-UAS" I have to mostly agree with Lucifer. I had a great time in the UAS and would recommend it to anyone willing to put allot into it- you will then get allot out of it. (btw, that’s what they look for when you go through the selection process).

But to give you the full range, we had some people who didn't get much more than 10hrs p.a. and one or two who got over 100hrs in total;)

So if you are keen on UAS/ RAF tell us more about your reasons why & we can tell you more.

For info, when I left, to get a PPL I had to do all the tests plus 4 hrs training including, wait for it,: 1 hr slow flying- as in the UAS you don’t bother with any and get straight into spinning & aeros:ok:

[rich49]

Thanks for your replies.
Firstly, I would not expect a free ride, I would put everything into it (as long as it did not hinder my degree). I would leave my part time job, not sign up for the university clubs that also required dedication so that I could put my all into it. As for the military side, I am not planning on joining the RAF. I do have an open mind but I want to be a civilian pilot. I still have been told many times to consider the UAS and have not because of that fact, yet I have been told that this does not matter and to try anyway. (I saw your reply to lucieross's post also Lucifer, thats what really got me thinking).

My reasons for joining are to fly. I want to fly more than anything, so my level of dedication is not a factor! I also think that I could get a lot more out of it.... leadership skills, self disipline and still have a good time, (such as the sailing off scotland). They are my reasons for joining.
There is no organisation that I know of that parallels the UAS for Uni students who want to get into civilian flying......Maybe we should get together and start something! :hmm:
thanks
Richard

[Dan Winterland]

Rich 49, the advice you were given is incorrect. Not wanting to join the RAF may not have mattered in the past, but the role of the UAS system has changed. Wheras before they were happy for people to join with no intention of a carreer in the RAF, now their function is to recruit and train future pilots.

If you can't convince the interview board of your commitment to being an RAF pilot, you stand little chance.

[rich49]

Ok, well thanks for the info. Your right, I would be taking the chance away from someone who does want to get into military flying.
Does anyone know if I can do anything to get into flying whilst at university? Of course, paying large amounts for a PPL is not an option due to financial constraints of uni and would have to wait until afterwards! There are no civilian groups? I don't really like the thought of not flying for 4 or five more years, and like I said its not a question of wanting something for nothing, I just want to get started!!!

[FlyFreeWbe]

Hey rich49
I've been thinking about this for a while too. What university are you thinking of going to? I'm off to Hertfordshire to do Aerospace this september, and they've allowed time for me to sit my exams (ground school for PPL) and do some flying (that counts) in each year I'm there. Don't think it's through the UAS scheme but thats available also I guess. They've provided student rates for the flying etc...and it sounds pretty good to me.

The downside is, that if it is through the UAS, then you get your name written down secretly on the reserve list for RAF fighter pilots :uhoh: . I prefer to stay civilian - easier fun.

FlyFreeWbe

[witchdoctor]

FWB

No secret about it - the UAS units are all part of the RAF Volunteer Reserve. If you join without being aware of that, then you almost deserve to be called up.

Unlikely a call up would ever happen - if Liz wanted to lose a multi-million pound aircraft then it would be cheaper to run it off the end of the runway - less fuel to pay for.:O

[Lucifer]

Once you are out of the RAFVR, there is little chance that you would be called up ahead of anyone else - unless per chance you were a highly skilled operator of an ex-militray type. That aside could you really see the production rate of aircraft in an all-out war losing that many pilots to require conscription, to be able to be ramped up with today's modern hi-tech fighters? Not a chance - we would have been invaded before that could even happen.

Although it is possible to convince an interviewer of your interest, have you considered the possiblility that you may be that enthusiastic about it once in, that you join anyway? It has happened to plenty, hence its fantastic use as a recruitment tool.

Glad your interest was sparked by that post!

And what exactly is the downside to being called up as a fast jet aviator?

[rich49]

FWB,
Im going to kingston in a couple of weeks to also do aerospace engineering, which is four years. Are you learning to fly already? Is the scheme that you talk about just for Hertfordshire or is it open for any university student? Surely there must be enough students in the South East that want to fly enough to get together and do something about it!

[Lucifer]

Start your own flying club then - there are enough funds in a student union to give it a kick-start. Tack yourself onto a flying club that will give you a negotiated student discount.

You have considered that ULAS is miles from Kingston for the flying side of things? Like the other side of London.

[rich49]

One student Union may not have enough funds for something like this, but maybe if all the student unions for the london universities co-operated and formed a club.....I know Surrey do something similar with a gliding club.
We could negotiate something with a flying club, in return for reduced rates, maybe we could offer help in running the airfield?
Who would I talk to at the field about something like this? Were Can I get a list of all the flying clubs in and around London?
Well, its worth a try, thanks for your help guys.

[Timothy]

Just to add a comment about this RAFVR call up bit, I came out of the Cambridge UAS in 1979, kept my flying going, and was still in the Reserve when the Falklands started in 1982.

I never heard a dicky bird.

By the time of the first Gulf War in 1991 I was an ATPL, having been out of the UAS 11 years, still nothing.

Thankfully I am now too old to fight.

So I wouldn't give that thought the time of day.

W

[witchdoctor]

Can't really see the lefties that run the socialist student unions stumping up hard cash to let anyone enjoy the "rich man's" sport of flying.

Nice idea, but unlikely in this country.

[tmmorris]

Not sure about the callup status: I know that RAFVR(T) officers (i.e. ATC/CCF) are exempt, and I'd be surprised if RAFVR were subject to callup as they don't get adequate training for operational duties.

I'm interested in the question of logging/counting UAS/AEF* flying, though, as I'd been told several times that I couldn't log time flying with UAS/AEF instructors unless they were also CAA FI's, since I was neither P/UT nor P1.

Tim

*Air Experience Flights: usually the same aircraft/staff as the UAS, but called this when providing flights for ATC and CCF cadets.

[down&out]

TM

Interesting questions:

1) Call up:
When I joined the UAS (about 12 yrs ago) I was told although we would be VR, the secretary of state had said we would not be called up, unless there was mass conscription! - True today? I don't know, but probable, for all the reasons previously mentioned.


2) Logging flight time:
I logged over 100hrs in the UAS, which the CAA accepted towards my Civi PPL with the conversion requirements I have already mentioned. These were part of a full training programme. However, personally, I have not included my 3 "Air Experience" flights I did in the CCF. Gut feel says you might include one, as this is the first "lesson" towards a PPL anyway. I also had a number of flights (with hands on the controls) of jets and rotors, but they are not in my log book either:(

[FlyFreeWbe]

FWB,
Im going to kingston in a couple of weeks to also do aerospace engineering, which is four years. Are you learning to fly already? Is the scheme that you talk about just for Hertfordshire or is it open for any university student? Surely there must be enough students in the South East that want to fly enough to get together and do something about it!
My course is the same methinks (3yrs+1sandwich). This is what the Herts website says-->
"In your course you will gain practical pilot training and experience in every year of your degree. In year 1 you will undertake pilot ground training as part of your course. You also have the option of making this count towards achieving your Private Pilot’s Licence (PPL) by taking the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) examinations. In Year 2, you will be able to gain flying experience with a local flying school and there is the opportunity for further flying experience in your final year, for which students pay a nominal fee. This flying experience can count towards the flying hours required for you to gain your PPL. Further more should you wish to undertake additional flying beyond that which is offered to you as part of your degree, the University has negotiated preferential flying rates for all our students. In offering you this practical flying experience alongside your honours degree studies, the University is enhancing your practical knowledge of flying." Kinston university is annoyingly vague about this stuff.

I am already learning to fly, been doing it since summer 2000 (at a very slow pace), but I've sped up and need to complete ground exams by December 03. Hopefully, I get to fly cheaper and let most/all of it count before i need to go in for my skills test! I hear Loughborough have made a club but I think that was without the USU, they go to East Midlands. witchdoctor is right, most USU's won't give over to help. I think Herts is using the East Herts Flying School @ Panshanger aerodrome (I've not confirmed this with anyone yet) with reduced rates etc.... Or a bit closer to you there's Elstree and Denham. If you've got an idea feel free to share

FlyFreeWbe

[rich49]

well, even without the student unions help I think it could still work, all thats needed is determination and organisation. If I could get the word around the universities in london and get everyone who's interested together, then take it from there. Thanks for the suggestions. Theres also Fairford, which is a little closer, and unlike its neighbours, has a concerete runway!
Good luck at hertfordshire!

[FlyFreeWbe]

I like your determination! Yeah, hard surfaces do have an appeal to them. I'll ask around herts if anyones interested (when I get there). Good luck at Kingston too :ok: keep us posted.

ps - maybe this could be the first UPC!! ;) (university pilot club)

[rich49]

Cool that would be great! How about: 'London Universities Civilian Air Group?' I will let you know in a couple of months how things go. Good luck at herts for you to!
richard

[FlyFreeWbe]

Roger
FlyFreeWbe

[jonnoboy]

I'd like to here more about this flying at Herts uni. It is new to me and i am in my final year now (aerospace systems) and have heard nothing except for the final year flying course that gets you a go in a warrior and the R22 at Elstree. Fortunately i learnt to fly jut before my industrial placement just over a year ago, but have always hoped the university would have a club to bring the costs down a bit. I guess its not a typical student hobbie!! Let me know anything and if not, then good luck for organising something. If it wasn't my final year i'd help out.

[DB6]

Rich49, in answer to your original query the answer lies in LASORS (get a copy from the CAA website - £10 plus P+P) and is on page 6 of Section C. Briefly, you have to: meet PPL issue minimum hours (which you will have with a UAS course), do a qualifying cross country flight with 2 landaways, pass the PPL ground exams including R/T practical, and pass the Skills Test. I'd recommend a couple of hours getting used to civvy aerodromes and procedures first. A couple of the lads at JEFTS were in the process when we closed but I don't know how far they got.