Hello all. Whilst enjoying my new job as Keyboardy/piano person, I have come to meet some new and interesting people of the music world (county) and have learnt quite a lot for my own good.

Now, I have got a business relationship with a customer. (I like to call it that, it makes me feel imprtant). He emailed saying how helpful I was in the shop and that he would like tou ask for my further assitance. His issue is about MIDI files and WAV file conversion using Sibelius, and ending up burning the newly converted wav files (from midi) onto the CD using NERO.

I am quite capable of most things like this, however, I do not want to appear useless and make him think that he is working with a hopeless cause. (me)

He knows how to convert the MIDI (from a floppy) and save it. He saves it as a Sibelius file and it plays nice, but when he saves it as a MIDI file, it does not play back correctly. Bl00dy MIDI.

Hmm, there is a problem with notation also. In simple terms for non-musical people, when you write score using a program (or have the socre be written for you by reading the MIDI file), it uses the different types of notes and connections of notes availbile. However, there are always more than one way of writing the same rhythm. His other problem is the when saved as MIDI (in other words, not sibelius), the notated score i altered, and sounds different. Hence him saying why it sounds better when saved as a Sibelius file and not MIDI.

If anyone understands ANYTHING or is able to help in the slightest way possible in any way by Tuesday (as scheduled), then I would be ever so grateful.

Smooth skies,

Dan

Dan,

My son, father-in-law and brother-in-law are all published composers and all use Sibelius extensively, so I can probably get answers to specific questions about it.

I see you are London based, so if you are willing to travel to Epsom (30min from Waterloo or Victoria) you can even have a play with Sibelius (with an attached MIDI keyboard) if that helps. My son is a weekly boarder, he will be home tomorrow (Sunday) but away at about 6.00pm.

PM me quickly if you want to take this up.

Oh, and another thing, Sibelius tech support are usually very good.

W

Sibelius (http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/search.pl?com=search&type=article&language=1&words=48&log=no): Recording Sibelius files to an audio CD.

An explanation of why MIDI screws up notation. The author is talking about Finale, but the principle should be the same - Use of MIDI files to transfer notation (http://mail.shsu.edu/pipermail/finale/1999-May/007087.html).

As a possible solution, get him to upgrade to Sibelius 2.1 and then install Dolet for Sibelius (http://www.recordare.com/sibelius/index.html) which is based on MusicXML (http://www.recordare.com/xml.html).

I have used a number of programs, including Sibelius, and have not found a satisfactory and foolproof way round this problem other than recording the actual playback from the music program, either recording direct from the sound card to a wav file or going throuhg the line out jack on the soundcard.

It is all to do with the compexity of the midi file, and the way it is stored and interpreted, along with the instruments (voices) used.

I would be very interested to hear of your further experiences.

Cheers

Hi all. Terribly sorry for not being able to reply sooner. I have had terrible problems with Cookies and passwords being remembered on PPRuNe. I sign in, and reply, and press submit and it says im not signed in!! Stupid thing. (and i ddnt see a reply button for my private message WCollons..sorry about that).

Well, I saw him yesterday (saturday), and we sorted it. Fortunately he had Sibelius 1.4 as well as 2.0. We had to get the MIDI files he was given on floppy, put into Sibelius, and saved then, as Sibeleus files.. This of which, he had done previously. We needed these to become WAV files, and in turn be burnt onto CD ROM. As you cant save MIDI on floppy disc.

Well, success!! I figured out over the 3 hours it took me, that if we saved the Sibelius file as MIDI, in SB2, we could open it in SB1.4, and the "notation" problem I was talking about is corrected. SB2 seems to be worse than its predecessor!

What the notation problem was, was that the second bar had three groups of triplets, and it needed to be that quick 123 123 123 but SB2 was scoring that at an incorrect rhthym and it rele did sound awful. We saved it as MIDI and changed the name slightly as to not over-write (made that mistake before-put a 2 after it or something), and we opened the new MIDI in SB1.4. It scored it perfectly, with ther triplet feel that we needed. We then wrote down a protocol to follow and that was that sorted.

THEN....(yes, theres more :bored: ).....

We had to get that new MIDI with the correct rhythm, into a WAV file. Well this took too bloody long however I managed to find a solution. What it is is to get WINAMP, and make some settings (which I found by searching the net...some clever computer nerd must have sat for ages figuring it al out...so thanks whoever that was)....and then we did what it said..and it worked.

You simply make the settings, shut down winamp, re-open it...open the MIDI file you want (from SB1.4 remember, as this plays the correct rhtym), and play it. You wont hear anything for some reason but he said to expect that on the instructions. When the song is finished, press stop and close or minimise WINAMP.

Go to My Computer...Click your Hardrive name..( C: normally), and in there, you will see a Realplayer file named OUT by default. Play that, and you have your MIDI converted in WAV!! Fantastic!

Then we reliased that when we did another, it ddnt make another OUT file, called OUT2 you would have thought. It ADDED it to the first! Simple way round that....Make a new folder on the desktop. We caled ours WAVE Files. Then, drag the "OUT" file from the C: folder and you are able to rename it in there to whatever it needs to be. Then, you can do as many as neccersary, without over-writing the first.

All in a good days work ;)

Smooth skies,
Dan

Forgot about putting themon disc. Dont try and do it through NERO as it doesnt like reading WINAMP waves. (yea, theres different ones it appears...dont understand that).

Go to REALPLAYER, open the Burn CD through TOOLS. Theres for little buttons. Clock on each but three (as thats the settings for recording which are set at default so leave those). The first button searches the songs (if i remember right), the second does something else...ignore the third, and the fourth wacks them onto CD.

Dont know why it doesnt work through NERO, but if you want the MIDI converted WAV files onto CD...do it through real plaer :)

Thanks for the info - good stuff.

OIne thing I have noticed is that some programs get very upset when opening Midi files if each bar is not "full". This can give rise to some very funny effects.

I also have Encore from Passport, which very usefully allows you to see each "raw" midi bar, very useful for checking if anything is wrong in that area.

I see Sibelius 3 is out, and looks like it has a fix to your problems.

INDEED! Stickyb. I have spoken to the chap lately, and we have discovered that the new Sibelius is the key! He has ordered it. Gets an educational discount the lucky ******. When he gets it, its off to his house to approach the situation, and hope for no windshear on the way :}

Dan

(p.s - if your interested of our progress, I'll be happy to update the thread).

We get the ed discount and it's still pretty dear :(

W

Definitely interested in an update, please.