Denny Dobson, Flying Legend?

[Waldo Pepper]

Have you ever seen a Denny Dobson display? What did you think of it? I'm curious...doesn't matter if you're an aerobatic ace, or an airshow spectator...I'm just wondering if I'm missing the point of this fellow. I know that ego is a part of a display pilot's character, but our Denny really takes the biscuit. He's continually touted as an aerobatic legend, yet his displays in his blue and yellow Extra300 don't seem to me to be that accomplished....which is not a major problem in itself, since he appears to be safe...How does he stand up though, when compared to pilots like Brian Lecomber, Nigel Lamb, Will Curtis, Alan Cassidy,
Mark Jeffries, Diana Britten, Steve Jones, Paul Bonhomme etc...
I only ask because of all the hype that surrounds this guy. It's incredible , really it is. I know he was "self-taught", which may explain some of his flying, and I've heard that he doesn't charge for his displays, which I'm not sure I believe, because he does seem to work quite hard at it.
I guess the point I'm making here is that if he's as good as he thinks he is, why does he always seem to be going on about it? The best pilots I know just get on with it and let their flying do the talking..if anything, they're highly self critical. If he's not as good as he thinks he is...well, that's another problem altogether.

[TomPierce]

Would you by any chance have an axe to grind? Why the griping?

I have never heard of him - but then again one day I will!

[Waldo Pepper]

Maybe I'm a bad person. Maybe Denny is really recapturing the spirit of the barnstormers...but I don't think I have a particular axe to grind. I'm just an aerobatics pilot who has flown in a few contests finds it mildly irritating to hear someone who is not that proficient to be hailed as the finest performer in the country...He's certainly industrious though, can't fault him for that.

[TomPierce]

I doubt that the barnstorming days can be revived but there are some very good aeros pilots around today.

He will have to prove himself to his peers before he can be called great, or even good, time will tell.

[ed69]

Fortunate enough to briefly meet him at RAF Waddington airshow in the hosting tent after the show, seemed to be a genuinly nice bloke, who works hard on his displays, didnt get round to talking about it as other men in green bags wanted to chat(eg nudge away the bloke NOT in a green bag-moi). My point is that, although the bloke is indeed a very good display pilot, and somewhat of a legend within the display community, perhaps he is not yet worthy of such an accolade on a national or global level! Wouldnt have minded a go in the extra tho ;)

Safe flying guys,

Ed

[BRL]

Have a look at THIS (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99394)

[ozplane]

I booked Denny for an event my wife was running and I can assure you he does charge for his display. It was basically a non-aviation audience and without exception they all said it was the best display they had seen, so that says he is satisfying one audience. It must be tough to make a living out of aerobatic flying so I guess some self-promotion comes with the territory. He also did a corporate day for us so it is possible that you can get airbourne in the Extra. By the way Waldo what do you do that matches his low-level, high-speed ribbon cut?

[Spinningtop]

I've seen Denny fly and I can honestly say it was one of the best displays I've ever seen. The ribbon cut is awesome, and the general interaction between himself and the audience makes the display more entertaining (through the self-commentary). His maneuvres may not be spot on to a critical eye (I don't know) but his displays are certainly exciting and this is what the public wants, and if the public is happy than surely this makes it easier for all of us involved in aviation.

Just my thoughts!

[Waldo Pepper]

Well, I saw him flying at Shoreham today, and in fairness his display seemed much improved. He's winding the Extra up a bit now, and doing a few gyroscopic manoeuvres. If he's liked by the public, maybe that's the answer. Perhaps I've been spending too much time on the competition scene, where we spend much of our time critiqueing individual figures...still as to the ribbon cut, I'd be more impressed if it was flown inverted...

[Spinningtop]

....ah I don't know some people are never pleased:p . Next news you'll be saying you want to see the utterly butterlies cutting the ribbons with scissors!!

What would the wright brothers say if they heard us now, just flying for them (and us I suppose!!) was a massive break through now we're talking about cutting ribbons inverted, what will it be in the next 100 years, cutting ribbons with light sabers!!

Cheerio!:p :p :p :

[Vere de fakawee]

Good spot Waldo. Wondered the very same myself.

Agree that the aerobatics are OKish but IMHO a bit rough around the edges. Compared to Brian Lecomber, Nigel Lamb, Will Curtis, Richard Pickin, Xavier De Lapparent, Pete Kynsey, John Harper, Alan Cassidy, Paul Bonhomme, Steve Jones, Mark Jefferies, Gennady Elfimov, Nikolai Timofeev, Diana Britten and quite a few others, it's not very polished! Yet through relentless self-promotion, and sponsors (albeit minor) who insist on using the Extra 300 as a flying hoarding, he'll continue appearing at displays.

It's a crazy world we live in! :confused:

[Zlin526]

Ok Chaps, so who is the best aerobatic display pilot on the scene today?

[canadair]

in terms of hard core aerobatics:

Jim LeRoy,
www.bulldogairshows.com

there is not even a close second!

[flyingfemme]

Sean D. Tucker - the SkyGod!:cool:

Seen him at Oshkosh (two years running) and he's utterly amazing. He's not the most technically accomplished but he wins the crowd like nobody else. His displays just flow. And on the ground - his image is so cheesy you just HAVE to grin; George Hamilton tan, carefully bouffant, white grin......

Of course, there's something about a Pitts being flown well that looks so right!:ok:

[TheKentishFledgling]

Will Curtis.

Definately.

tKF

[Cosmic Wind]

For accurate aerobatic flying any of the crop of current competition pilots beat Denny Dobson hands down. Airshow aeros, for pure smoothness any of the Brietling Fighter pilots and Pete Kinsey. In terms of light aeros I think that the MicroLease Extra duo and Matadors are way better in presentation and technique than any of the others. That said, Denny Dodson does a great deal to promote display flying in a positive and enjoyable light. The majority watching are interested in only the spectacle and in this area you have to give him top marks.

[Firkin L]

Its a bit like comparing apples and pears.
Denny is a display pilot whose success can be judged on whether the public are impressed and whether the display organisation book him for next year. Many of the others named are competition pilots whose goal is to impress judges and win medals/titles. The two types of aerobatic flying are not the same.

[ozplane]

If our competition aerobatic pilots are so good, how come they don't do better in the World Aerobatic Championships. Is it lack of funds, biased judges or the style of UK aeros? I have to say that none of the UK guys got close to de Lapparent on content or style the last time I saw him at North Weald for the Aerofair.

[DamienB]

Can't say I've ever heard any hype about him beyond the commentary that every act has, and he's probably the most genuine, easy-going and friendly pilot I've ever met - no prima donna stuff at all, and he is endlessly self-critical which all rather begs the question of why you, Waldo, are slagging the bloke off so much when anybody's who ever actually spoken to him comes away with entirely the opposite impression.

I booked him to fly a bunch of mates at my stag do and none of them will ever forget an incredibly entertaining day out - though one of them has put "Bring it on" in his book of phrases-never-to-be-spoken-to-an-aerobatic-pilot. He even joined us in the pub for the evening. And then I booked him to fly at my wedding too - and the crowd thought he was brilliant.

Still, maybe you're just ticked off he did 4 ribbons at Shoreham rather than 3 you expected eh. :{ :ok: :p

[Southern Cross]

The very very best I have seen, in terms of entertainment, is Jurgis Kairys in his 450hp Sukhoi 26M. Absolutely mindbogglingly good. How is 16 consecutive snap rolls in the downwards vertical stopping precisely on his intended exit line? Just for example.... or a "cobra" on take off from 20 feet ...

Technically, Xavier du Lapperent may be more accomplished, but IMHO, Jurgis flies a display that is more entertaining to the general public - Xavier appeals to the more aviation / aerobatically minded audience.

Shame that Jurgis is not often seen in the UK - a bit of a hike from his base in Lithuania. Storming aeroplane though. Spins a huge 4 bladed prop and has to be the ultimate SU26.

[Vere de fakawee]

Pete Kynsey has got to be the best all-rounder. Very good competition aeros, and apart from Neil Williams, the highest placed UK pilot (I think) in the World Championships since 1970. His display aerobatics are legendary. Saw him display a Harvard in the 1980s and everybody at the show just stood there awestruck! Smooth, flowing and perfectly displayed. And to see him display the Bucker Jungmann is something else. Regular practice sessions at Headcorn brings the airfield to a standstill while everyone watches..PK could aerobat a horse & cart and still make it look good!

But then again, Paul Bonhomme, Brian Lecomber, Nigel Lamb, Will Curtis, Mark Jefferies, Tom Cassells, Richard Pickin, Steve Jones are all outstanding pilots in their own right.

:ok:

[DROGNA]

I also saw Denny at Shoreham this weekend, and the ribbon cutting piece is a fantastic thing to watch, and clearly the crowd enjoyed it too. However it seemed to me that Denny doesn't seem to throw the aircraft around the sky quite as much as others.

I've met Will Curtiss on a number of occassions and his displays always leave me amazed at what he can do. He's a real nice guy to talk to as well - a top bloke!

[formationfoto]

Through being involved with an aviation mag and an airfield where we have our own air show and also host the stop over for a sea front display I get to know and watch a number of the displays. Quite often I have to tread carefully to avoid upsetting people as there are some big personality clashes out there but my own perspective is that anyone who is out there trying to make a living out of displaying aircraft in flight should be applauded whether they are giving a technically superb display or leaning more towards entertainment.

Denny was the subject at the start of this thread and he generates quite a bit of reaction on the circuit. I have flown with him and would again. His tail up arrival is entertaining as is his ribbon cutting display. I put him in the entertainer category and a hard worker.

Also entertaining are the guys who fly the Utterly Stearmen. Martin and Mike are not going to win awards for their extreme aeros during the display but they do know how to entertain the crowd and work hard for the sponsor.

Slightly different is the show put on by Will Curtis in the Sukhoi. The gyro manouvres are more interesting to a technical audience.

What I have seen as an attitude is that these guys don't claim to be superior. They don't pretend that they are better than the competition guys but just don't have time to compete. They do a different job.

My vote for best still goes to Dennis Kenyon. An unassuming guy who can make a helicopter do things I wish I could have the nerve to try.

[kinsman]

I am amazed that Denny has attracted so much attention on this thread! I saw him fly this weekend and as far as I can see he puts on a good show. To compare him to others is pointless he is an able display pilot and a great showman.

For those purists out there the glider display was outstanding this weekend at Shoreham. Sadly I do not remember the pilots name but he stole the show as far as I am concerned. Running a close second was Tom Maloney in the Strike Master who is one of aviations gentlemen and puts on a stunning display.

The instigator of this thread seems to take exception to the term legend! In my experience most legends have a habit of being dead! In DD’s case it is showmanship nothing more so don’t make a meal of it.

For me the consummate display pilots were and are Duane Cole and Bob Hoover and one must not forget Ray Hanna. There are so many other great pilots on and off the display circuit some have been listed by others on this thread. Denny is an outstanding showman and the public like his display! So what’s the problem?

Best bit of advice I heard regarding display flying was keep it simple, keep it safe. So if Denny does not push his aeroplane or himself to the limit and manages to entertain the public he has got it about right in my opinion.
:ok:

[Flash0710]

Whats the Beef?

He's enjoying himself and fortunate enough to get paid for it.



Here is his site

http://www.dennydobsonaeros.demon.co.uk/

He certainly doesn't seem to be willy waving!

Im sure you would not complain if you had a sponsored extra 300 i know i would not.....:E

[Hairyplane]

My company was the sole sponsor of an Extra last year.

The pilot was new to the scene and no great shakes.

So what?

An aerobatic plane is a great billboard for you products, most especially if you have a commentator on the ground. They will get the sponsors name and business mentioned in every other breath if they're good.

So, speaking as a sponsor, it doesn't matter a stuff how good the pilot is as long as - your company name is in big bright letters, the crowd know what you do and you get overhead as many crowds as possible in the season. All displays were provided at my companies expense. I was happy to do it.

All the pilot needs to do is a few loops, rolls and tumbles and make plenty of smoke and noise.

Denny Dobson has a most impressive story to tell as far as the promotion of his sponsors is concerned.

As a business tool then, he is top shelf.

He also happens to be a display pilot who does lots of the aforementioned things really well and adds his own stamp to it - including loooaaads of noise!

The crowds love him - it doesn't matter a stuff if other pilots are crticial of his manouvres.

Maybe they aren't as succesful as him in achieving the ultimate gaol of any aerobatic pilot and that is to do it for a living. What better than to fly your @ss off in a plane that somebody else is funding and paying you to do it as well!

Fair play to the bloke and much respect. His is a great story.

Ok, he won't win many trophy's but, hey, so what? That ain't his bag.

I bet he is chuckling all the way to the bank at these posts!


HP

[Flash0710]

Hairy

Sponsor me the yaks noisy and Guinness won't!:E

[Waldo Pepper]

Not slagging anyone off, DamienB, just generating a bit of discussion...Ok point made and taken. Denny the aerial entertainer. He's certainly flying a more polished display this year...who knows, next year we may see lomcevaks. Anyway, my girlfriend thought his display was good, and she's not an easy one to impress...

[kinsman]

As I recall last year was his first in the Extra!:ok:

[markd.greenfield]

not by some margin

[LowNSlow]

Have a look here (http://pattywagstaff.com) at Patty Wagstaff.

Strange, but the last time I saw a video of Patty doing rolls in her Extra she was a brunette!

First woman to win the US Nats.

[Kirstey]

I have to disagree!! The Geese stole the Shoreham Airshow!

[stiknruda]

I wonder about the legality of hopping pax who have bid at auction or have been promised a ride by the sponsors. As I understand it, DD has a PPL.


Quite enjoy his airshow - especially that "swooping" maneouver where he exercises the prop pitch control to add more noise!

Stik

[kinsman]

Fair enough I thought he was still flying the S1 the year before last at Shoreham time does fly!;)

[camaro]

Haven't seen Denny perform for a number of years so won't comment on his abilities at present. He might not pass muster at a competition but if the crowd at a display likes him that's all that matters.

One thing that does puzzle me.....why does everyone make such a big deal about cutting a ribbon? Along with flour bombing, spot landings, balloon bursting, etc, a ribbon cut was always part of the competitions that we held at Netherthorpe every year back in the late eighties/early nineties. The ribbon wasn't on twenty foot high poles either.....we just took it in turns to stand either side of the runway and hold it up!

[QDMQDMQDM]

it's not very polished! Yet through relentless self-promotion, and sponsors (albeit minor) who insist on using the Extra 300 as a flying hoarding, he'll continue appearing at displays

Sour grapes! We live in a free world, free market and the guy is successfully making a living at what he wants to do. What's wrong with that, even if the aerobatics pursits are a bit sniffy?

Give him a break.

QDM

[Hairyplane]

Hi Stik,

As far as I understand it -

No problem to take the Sponsors customers for a ride.

As far as 'prize/ charity flights' are concerned, the CAA require the pilot to fill a form in before granting an exemption.

Maybe somebody in the know will confirm?

HP

[Flyin'Dutch']

I probably need to get out more to go and play!

But here goes as requested from the CAA Website (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/122/summary_of_public_transport.pdf)

Having done the Burnt Children's Club flying day last week at Bourn (which was a tremendous success again) I know that even if you don't raise money teh CAA 'like to see that you comply with their guidance'

For which there is an AIC but can not put my hand on that just now.

FD

[stiknruda]

Hairy/FD

my mind is at rest - thanks chaps!

Stik

[scopeland]

I don't find his displays particularily impressive when they are conducted at less than 200ft over the top of my house. What would be impressive is if he went away and read the air navigation order particularily the section on the 500ft rule.

I live in an area that covers about half a million acres of clear open space, no need for him to practice over our rooftops

As a pilot I find his behaviour reprehensible, it reflects badly on all of us. As a result of this my neighbours all think that us pilots are ignorant aerobats who have no respect for life or property.

I would expect a "legend" to conduct himself in an appropriate manner?

:(

[High Wing Drifter]

Kirsty,

I have to disagree!! The Geese stole the Shoreham Airshow!
Agree! The geese and the aerobatic glider...Oh and the LA9 :)

[DamienB]

scopeland - I don't find his displays particularily impressive when they are conducted at less than 200ft over the top of my house.

I'd expect a pilot to know the difference between 200 and 2000 feet as Denny's practices are at a good height and unless your house is a particularly good line feature, he isn't over it. He also spreads practices round the county a lot to lessen any perceived noise nuisance to the locals.

I would suggest if you have any serious objection to him practicing within your line of sight (as clearly the below 200 ft over your house thing is a nonsense), you have the common decency to pick up the phone and talk to him about it rather than making such a serious and unfounded allegation on a public forum.

[Ludwig]

damienB old chap, wind your neck in. How can you possibly know for certain that scopeland is a liar, as you seem to suggest? Are you Denny in disguise?

[scopeland]

you know what DamienB, after several hundred hours of flying I have finally managed to get pretty good at depth perception and height estimation.

His display over my house this morning clearly broke the 500ft rule. Just to make sure I drove the 300m to the airfield so I could watch him from the opposite direction. I did not see you or anyone else there this morning so I am unsure how you can claim it to be an unfounded allegation!

He has no need to practice over our rooftops when there is SIGNIFICANT open space well away from the village.

He has proven to be so much of a nuisance that one of the reasons our airfield is getting licenced is to keep him out of the overhead.

I am sure that in most places he does practice above the legal minimums, but in most places he did not get evicted by the landowner and seems hell bent on making some sort of point????

However I am more than happy to discuss this with him in person, PM me his number as you are obviously very close to him.

[DamienB]

Denny's number is clearly visible on his web site; add .com to his name.

If he's overhead a disused airfield, is your house on the runway or something?

[scopeland]

actually my dear chap I live 300m from the threshold. There are 15 based Group A aircraft and 2 helicoptors as well as around 60 microlights. The airfield has an A/G frequency and is definatley not disused.

What sane pilot practices aeros in someone elses overhead without permission (and I can assure you he does not have permission!)?

My neighbours originally fought against the aerdrome licence until they were made aware that an ATZ will keep him out and now they can't do enough to support it.

Hardly good advertising for him is it?

:ok:

[DamienB]

Perhaps a pilot who wants a runway in easy reach if his engine quits on him? One minute you say he's 200 feet over your house, now you're saying he's overhead a neighbouring airfield, which is far more plausible (a runway makes a good line feature, wouldn't you say?). You're surely not one of these chaps who move near an airfield and complain about the noise of aeroplanes are you? :p

Now you'll have to forgive as not being a pilot I don't know all the regulations but if he's not over a congested area (check - it's an airfield), and it's not a controlled zone (check - you admit it isn't), and he's not in your circuit (and I guess he isn't unless your circuit is some odd spiral descending down through the overhead and ending in a pile of wreckage on the runway), he's not breaking any rules is he? I trust you have by now phoned him to discuss anyway.

PS a simple enquiry found Denny wasn't evicted; from the sounds of it life was simply made so difficult for him to stay by someone being a bit dictatorial that he had no option but to leave. I would have thought somebody like yourself, evicted from Sywell, would have some understanding of such a situation.

[scopeland]

Let me say this again for the less attentive, he is at 200ft over my house.

For a none pilot you are quick to give sage advice yet you obviously understand little about airfields and the villages that are attached to them. I would suggest that you go and read the ANO before making further comment on the rules.

My village is an integral part of the airfield. Allowing a standard 2.5nm distance from the runway the village and the aerdrome are inside this "overhead".

I live 300m from the threshold of the runway. Therefore the same overhead that covers the airfield also covers the village. He practices over the village ( and often on the 300m gap between the village and the runway (this is the dsecent side of our circuit) and not over the runway. He does not have permission to operate in our overhead area and has no regard for the aircraft coming and going into the overhead. He often flies straight through the circuit pattern on some of his passes.

Whether it is a controlled zone or not common courtesy and good airmanship would prohibit you from flying aerobatics in the overhead of an airfield without permission?

And in answer to your smug comment, I moved close to an airfield to be closer to the noise of aircraft. I have no objection to his noise or his flying, just to his flight over my roof and through the overhead of the airfield. In fact if he chose to practice in the field behind me I would happily sit and watch until he was either finished or crashed if he was any good.

Oh, and yes he was evicted according to the landowner.

And perhaps as I fellow evictee I should have some sympathy..........

[DamienB]

Conscious of my non-pilot status I did read the ANO hence my above response; he doesn't appear to have broken any rules - and I can't find any that require permission from anybody to be overhead any airfield.

You still persist in your allegations here instead of phoning him, as already suggested, and as you had already agreed to do.

Presumably then this is a personality conflict that you have with the man - maybe it was one of those that got you booted out of Sywell?

[scopeland]

oooh bitchy!! Attack me, attack me, make me feel cheap.

Sorry to knock the wind from your sails, but no personality conflict, never met him, don't know him or anyone else around him. I did not agree to call him, was merely being as sarcastic as you!

I am merely reflecting on personal experiance of his flying behaviour.

If your research revealed that a pilot does not need permission to be in any overhead I hope you don't take up flying. Right I am off to Heathrow for a jolly as now you have enlightened me to airlaw I will not be violating airspace and won't get prosecuted by the CAA, might throw a few aeros in while I am there.

Yes I guess my utterly attrocious personality along with all of the others must have been the reason for us being "booted" from Sywell. Thanks for taking the effort to point it out to me. I better mend my ways.

Anyway who are you his dad???


:O :O

[DamienB]

I have made no attack on you. Heathrow's overhead is a controlled zone. Where you are is not. I would have expected you to know this :oh:

Anyway it's clear you would rather sling mud behind someone's back rather than simply picking up the phone to talk to them about the matter. I simply don't understand that sort of attitude.

Clearly all I am doing here is helping to keep your grudge on the go; if you have any real wish to resolve any perceived issue, you know where to find his contact details. If you have no real wish to resolve things, then that really says more about your supposed complaint than any amount of further discussion so I shall leave you to it.

[scopeland]

I beg to differ Sir, you did indeed attack me personally by commenting about my personality and Sywell which had no relevance to this post!!!

You also said:

"and I can't find any that require permission from anybody to be overhead any airfield"

According to your interpretation I can go and fly over Heathrow and do as I please in there overhead. As I recall I had to pass an exam on air law to gain my licence, perhaps that makes me a fraction better off in this discussion than you?


Mud slinging, that we would be saying things that are untrue to cause trouble. None of what I have said is untrue and is the reason these forums exist. I dont happen to share the view with you that he is a flying legend. This view is based on my experiance of seeing him in flight!

Phone call, mmmm "Brrrng, brrrg, hello Mr Dobson please stop practicing your display over my village and airfield.......... click..doooooooooooooooooooooooo"

Oh and nice website by the way Mr Burke.

[Circuit Basher]

Gentlemen - I have politely suggested to Big Red 'L' that this thread be chilled until such time as the prime contributors for the last page or so manage to re-assemble their teddies within the peripheries of their prams!! ;)

All started out reasonably, but is just starting to get silly! No offence to either of you (who have both displayed a perfect ability to contribute constructively to PPRuNe on other threads), but IMHO, this thread is losing its novelty factor.

All we need is the Monty Python foot or the 16 Ton weight now. Oh, here it comes.... http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0903/alles_moegliche/mixed-smiley-006.gif :D

[BRL]

Ok chaps, I have had a few reports/e-mails concerning your posts above. I ask you to continue your banter privately by e-mail or PM and not on here. I am not going to ban either of you or anything silly like that as called by some people who mailed me but I hope common sense will kick in here.
Thanks for your co-operation and thank you to those who PM'ed me.
Brl.

[Zlin526]

Put your handbags away chaps and listen in.

Damien B,

You obviously didnt read all of the ANO, because Rule 5(1)(e) of the Rules of the Air Regs 1996 states:

An aircraft shall not fly within 500ft of persons, vessels, vehiucles or structures.

Which means that he can do just that, as long as its open airspace. If the airfield in question has any persons, vessels, vehicles or structures on it (quite likely), then he cant legally fly within 500ft of them except with Permission from the CAA. If it has an ATZ, then he needs to inform the aerodrome of his intentions, and I'm sure that is all, if the airfield has either an A/G or FIS service

If, as a non-pilot you can tell how high an aeroplane is (and I, as a 3000hr pilot, sure as hell cant), then you ought to be given an award.

If Mr Dobson hasnt got the common decency to respect other airfields neighbourhood problems, maybe a call from the aerodrome owner to the CAA will curb his enthusiasm?

Not everyone appreciates lots of noise and smoke, least of all local nimby's!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzlin 526

[PPRuNe Radar]

The best arbitrators of this thread would be the CAA Air Safety Enforcement Branch.

Ideally, scopeland would capture appropriate moving or still image to present to the CAA (with something in the foreground to allow interpretation of how close the aircraft is to any object named in Rule 5). Or Damien B will read up on the ANO and make sure the message gets to the pilot in question to ensure that the law is not breached and is not proven to be so.

Of course, the establishment of an ATZ will go some way to solving the problems of both camps .... does 'normal aviation' practice still apply to Rule 5 ?? Low level aerobatics in the context of this thread (without a dispensation from the CAA) does not fit.

[scopeland]

Sorry if it looked like it was toy throwing time but I was just trying to reflect on my personal experiance and did not expect to have my personality attacked.

For the record I did complain to the CAA and they told me that they would need more people to complain all with video or photographs before they would be prepared to act in order to be successful in a prosecution......... (they are not doing well at winning cases these days)

The aerodrome owner has complaied to the CAA repeatedly about this and it is one of the prime reasons that the aerdrome is seeking a licence.

I now rest my case.

[Wrong Stuff]

Why is it the CAA have only 2 modes of action - do nothing or prosecute?

Surely all it needs is for the CAA to ring up Mr Dobson and mention that there's been a complaint backed up with a bit of evidence and although it isn't sufficient to justify a prosecution they'd appreciate it if he'd stick to the rules in future. I'm sure if he had been bending the rules at all he'd be considerably more careful in future. I'm also sure he'd be more cautious about regular practice wherever the complaint originated. Safety enhanced, complainant happy, cost of one phone call, and should the CAA ever wish to prosecute in the future at least they can say he'd previously been warned.

[Kirstey]

And what about the Frenchmans Geese?? They are involved in a flying display - I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that these b@stards have been practising less than 500ft over someone's house!

Prosecute I say (or make some nice Fois Gras!)

[PPPPP]

[QUOTE]And what about the Frenchmans Geese?? They are involved in a flying display - QUOTE]

At least they were squawking but possibly not mode C.

I'll get my coat......

[Kirstey]

PPPPP - maybe you should consider getting your Coot?

[I have control]

Follow the link for in-cockpit video footage of some top air show flying in the USA, from several of the aforementioned pilots:

http://www.airventuremuseum.org/virtual/av_theater_main.asp

[Hairyplane]

This thread has warmed up a bit while I was away getting some currant bun in Jersey (MMMmmmm Jersey - check out my new thread on the place!)

It'll be teddy's and dummies as well as gloves on elastic at this rate...!

Hmmmm...

1. Scopey moved next to an airfield - 300m from the threshold and you cant get an awful lot closer.

2. 'Dirty Den' ( I know he will chuckle at that coz he knows me!) flies over his house.

3. Scopey doesn't use any of the friendly methods to prevent the alleged infingement (picking up the phone or walking across for a chat for example) , decides that he 'must be insane' (his words)and decides to 'dob him in' to the CAA.

4. The CAA predictably weren't remotely interested unless damning evidence could be produced.

These are the facts.

Now, call me cynical (OK I'm cynical!) but could it be the case that 'Dirty Den' (either didn't or )doesn't fly over Scopeys house any more below 500ft and Scopey has become frustrated that he has missed the opportunity to cause him some grief?

DD is aware of this thread. Even if he did commit the foul deed he would be nutz to do it again and surely won't.

DD has an unlimited Display Authorisation - down to just 3 feet I believe.

DA's aren't just issued willy nilly - you have to demonstrate that you are safe.

For what its worth Scopey - Let DD do what he does best, stop 'hiding in the bushes with your camera', acknowledge that DD's (and the delightful Mrs DD!)livelihood depends on his precious DA and chill out.

He ain't going to give you sufficient evidence, ever, to cause the CAA to even remotely consider sending one of their investigators along.

He also ain't going to do a Santa impression down your chimney pot either....

Kiss, make up, enjoy DD's cunning stunts.

If you did manage to afford him the courtesy of a face to face chat you will be met by a shy, unassuming bloke who is the last person in the world to deliberately upset you.

If he has offended you, I am sure he would apologise - (given the opportunity....)

The aviation scene would be a duller place without DD's dynamic, noisy and, lets face it - unconventional - contributions.

Finally, Scopey has 'had a right pop' at Damien B. DB has quite understandably been wowed by DD's flying, likes him too and feels that his hero has been victimised. He feels especially aggrieved because DD ain't likely to get baited into a response on this thread and is thus a stationary target.

DB is arguably one of the UK's greatest aviation photographers whose work has been enjoyed by so many (including you Scopey?) - and lots more to come from this talented bloke.

What have you done except conciously move next to an airfield and drip about one of the pilots Scopey?

I know what I would rather be remembered for.

HP

[scopeland]

mmm cunning stunt..... I see! Now where is my giant Panda.......

I am sure Mr Dobson is a truly charming and unassuming man who would not harm a fly and I have no desire to cause him grief. His last "display" was Wednesday so no missed opportunity in that sense. I don't want an apolgy from him, I just want him to be more considerate!

I am sure he is safe and hopefully the reliability of his aircraft exceeds his ability. If he were to fly NW by 3 miles he would have absolutely no one to annoy.

In the right context i.e at a display I would be as happy as any other aviation enthusiast to watch his display. I would be quite happy drive the 3nm NW and sit in the field and watch him practice. I have made no complaint about living next to an airfield, for all I care you could sit and do engine runs on a Phantom and I would enjoy it. What I don't like is my neighbours in a very small village thinking that all pilots are low level showboaters with no respect for the community and then giving me earache for it as the nearest flyer!! And for the record my time in the village well predates Mr Dobson's tenure!

We have a resident at the aerdrome that operates a massive turbine helicoptor, a 10 seat Piper Navajo and a couple of other big singles that the locals don't even know are there. Yet they believe that Mr Dobson is based there becuase of the disturbance they feel he causes.

Who DB chooses as his heroes are upto him. I merely retaliated when he attacked me. You are right he is a damn fine photographer with a well presented web site that is a credit to aviation.

If we are to prevent the decline of aviation in this country then we have to become more sensative to the non-aviation community.

Here endeth the rant.......

Love Scopey
the man who has achieved nothing in his life..................

Oh and yeah the Channel Islands are indeed fantastic flying!!!

[DamienB]

Er excuse me blokes but Denny 'my hero'? Come off it HP, you know it's you :E

[sycamore]

I think, Scopey, that you should go and have a chat with Denny, and see if he`ll give you a roof inspection , from the Extra!!!...or, perhaps Sandra can??

[smarthawke]

Perhaps some haven't quite grasped the situation here!

1) Pilot D is 'evicted' from an airfield.

2) On leaving he smashes up the hangar and concrete base so it can't be used by fellow aviators.

3) Pilot D moves his operation to another unlicensed airfield.

4) Pilot D considers it his right to go and practice his display over his former airfield, regardless of the many users still based there - including everything from microlights to twins.

5) Is it the same Pilot D who was banned from Cranfield (amongst other airfields) and then started bunting and stunting a Pitts on the approach to the PFA Rally the next year? Surely not.

Hardly sporting behaviour from another highly skilled professional aviator with a DA in an Extra is it?

It's a shame that the pilots I know flying various aircraft that have been suddenly and aggressively formated on in the airfield's vicinity when he was based there or the local who was chased down the access road by Pilot D in an AA-5 whilst checking someone out aren't on the forum to complain.....

If it was YOUR airfield that was getting such attention from an unwanted visitor how would you feel when the locals start complaining?

Standing by with the fire extinguisher......

[scopeland]

And there was me not even wanting to mention that other stuff in case I appeared biased.........

Or even worse was accused of making untrue allegations that could be fixed by a phone call.

And I am perfectly capable of doing an inverted inspection of my own roof, except I have read and understood Rule 5........

Foam or dry powder extinguisher?


scopey (the non achiever)

:ok:

[BRL]

I hate doing this, I really do. I am going to close this thread. It was a good discussion until the last two pages kicked in. It is simply going around in circles and I am not prepared to let it continue like this.

Someone has a gripe with DD and then someone defends him. The defender then gets stick and has a go at the detractor and so on. I see this thread going no-where, but around in circles.

I did make a point earlier in the thread and the warning was taken well and prompted a reasonable response from the main two posters(from the last two pages.). I thank you two for being man enough to respond the way you both did, but it is others now who are just making the thread go around in circles.

If any of you would like to give me a good reason as to why I should waste my time moderating this then please e-mail or PM me where I will quite happily discuss this with you.
Until then, its closed. Sorry but thats the way it is.