Pilot Life

[thehoop]

I've just left uni and I am considering what sort of career choice to make. Something that has always interested me is being a pilot, but I'd be the first to admit that I know very little about what the this job involves (something to do with those big things with wings, right? ):D

My first impression is that I would be away from home a lot, which I guess would be a downside. I've also heard that pilots are well paid and that its a very difficult to become one.

Would you agree with this?

Basically, would you recommend piloting as a career choice? What would you say are the main pros and cons?

I realise that this must be a very mundane thread for many of you pilots, but spare a few minutes to give your thoughts as you'd be really helping out many people in my position!

[regor]

If being a pilot only 'interests' you, then you have answered your own question. It should be a burning desire that you will sell your Grandmother to achieve, not a passing interest.

Unless you have a considerable bank balance, or willingness to take on an extensive amount of debt, coupled with a determination that would shame the most ardent explorer, I would suggest that it is not the career for you.

Read the Wannabe's threads if you want a taste of reality. Too many pilots chasing too few jobs.

Aviation has always followed a cyclic pattern of boom and bust which means you never know how long a good thing will last.

Sorry if that sounds brutal, but it is not an industry for the faint hearted.

[Dupre]

If you listen to all the negative comments and horrible stories (probably all true!) that people will tell you about piloting and it doesn't phase you, then you will probably succeed.

If it does phase you, then stop now before you waste your time and hard-earned cash.

It never phased me - if anything it only made me more determined to have the best job in the world. Though I haven't made it yet, I'm sure I will :)

Just my $0.02.

(to find a lifetime's supply of those stories, go to any most of the forums (Wanabees inparticular) and select threads "from the beginning" and start reading....)

[zerozero]

I tell my mom I play the piano in a whorehouse!

Seriously, I'm awfully cynical too. Being a pilot is less about a career choice and more about a lifestyle (Yes, I'm out of the closet and admitting I've chosen this way of life!).

Ok, I'll try to be serious again.

I've been cuttin' a paycheck at this silly game for 10 years now. Long days, low pay, multiple moves (last one within 150 miles of the Arctic Circle...), dishonorable management, two economic down turns, almost killed myself more times than I'll admit....

But I just don't know what else I would've ever done.

If you think you might be cut out for an industry of uncertainty, high divorce rates and alcohol abuse then I think you owe it to yourself to give it a shot.

Who said, Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

When you're on you're deathbed you don't want to have any regrets and if you start now things in the industry can *only* get better.....for awhile....and then they'll suck again and you'll be talking someone out of taking the leap.

Good luck and welcome to Pprune.

[strafer]

To actually answer your question, I'd recommend Clive Hughes' book 'Guide to being a commercial pilot' It's fairly objective and all the details are there.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94403&highlight=clive+hughes

Unlike me, you're the right age to get a cadetship and not have to pay for the training yourself. I'd suggest a search on pprune for the various ones available.

PS I presume you have already booked a trial lesson at your local flying club to check that you like it?

[eagerbeaver]

It is hard work and quite an unsociable job, you will be off flying when your mates are off down the pub etc. but it beats office work and you get a reasonable salary depending on your aircraft and expirience. You need the aptitude though as there is a huge amount of studying required in a short space of time. The flying training can provide some problems too. And the biggest bitch of them all is the cost to train if you are not sponsered.

regor - why must wanting to be a pilot be a "burning desire?" i am just as commited as the next guy but i would not have made huge sacrifices just to learn to fly. I agree you must be highly motivated but you go OTT to a stereotypical position.

[Notso Fantastic]

<Something that has always interested me is being a pilot, but I'd be the first to admit that I know very little about what the this job involves (something to do with those big things with wings, right? )>
It should be a burning desire! You should have grown up devouring everything to do with aeroplanes! You've left uni- was there a uni air squadron that would have taken you near aeroplanes? Did you ever think about trying for a licence at 17? Going to airports for hours on end just to watch? Have you just answered your own question? Don't give it another thought.

[ratsarrse]

Long days, low pay, multiple moves (last one within 150 miles of the Arctic Circle...), dishonorable management, two economic down turns, almost killed myself more times than I'll admit....

Don't forget that this isn't something that is exclusive to the airline industry. Working for any company will have you repeating something that resembles the quote above after a few years. It is telling that companies don't have 'Personnel' departments anymore; they have 'Human Resources' and that is exactly what you are - a disposable resource to be used up and thrown away to satisfy the needs of the shareholders when the going gets tough. Office furniture is a more valuable asset to a company than its staff. The bottom line is king and nothing else matters.

It all sounds rather cynical and negative, but if you try to find work that you enjoy and is fulfilling you will still be better off than most people. It's far worse when you hate your job and you're getting screwed by the spreadsheet-wielding management types. Just be ready to screw every penny and every minute of training you can get out every company you work for. Disregard outdated nations of loyalty and abandon the idea that working hard and being good at your job will get you anywhere. Good luck!

[strafer]

You should have grown up devouring everything to do with aeroplanes! You've left uni- was there a uni air squadron that would have taken you near aeroplanes? Did you ever think about trying for a licence at 17? Going to airports for hours on end just to watch? Have you just answered your own question? Don't give it another thought.
Hands up how many commercial pilots actually did this? If they were the only ones who 'gave it another thought' the skies would be empty.

I'm not disagreeing with your general point Notsofantastic, but a little OTT???

[thehoop]

Thanks for your responses. However, not only have I lost the desire to fly I've also lost the desire to live. I'm away to top myself.

And no, I've never sat at the airport for hours just watching planes! Even pilots think those guys are sad b*stards!

And I would have joined the University Air Squadons if it were not for my Al Queida connections and Afghan passport.

Just kidding. Thanks for your help!

:)

[silentbob]

I would like to suggest that if money is a motivator walk away now! You will spend a hell of a lot on your training and it will take a long time to join the Gravy Plane (most pilot jobs earn rubbish money - at least in my part of the world. Too many, pilots too few jobs).

And like one of the first replies suggested, If you are only "interested," forget it. There has to be a passion. I had a passion like no other. All i ever had to do since i was six was fly. Now I have learned to fly (got CPL,IRT last month) the glamour has worn thin, i have a moderate debt (not quite a mortgage), and i am working as a builder's labourer because I don't have the experience to get a paying job. I may just be bitter. Interest Schminterest.

[Notso Fantastic]

Strafe-<Hands up how many commercial pilots actually did this? If they were the only ones who 'gave it another thought' the skies would be empty.>.......err.....I wasn't alone actually! You're a PPL. That 'drive' when I was a teen took me through some very bad periods in flying and the enthusiasm is lasting me out as it gets increasingly tiring as I near the finishing tape. Without that, I know I wouldn't have stuck with it.
The effort involved with the job exceeds any office job. Too many people look on it as just another job option rather than requiring dexterity and aptitude and mental picturing. Some of the new products of sponsored pilot training had it all too easy with bizarre (to me) attitudes. But take it from someone in the industry who's been doing it for 33 years- unless you love aeroplanes, you ain't gonna be able to get up at 0330 time and again or work all night and arrive home feeling knackered, or work long hours (171/2 delayed) for 40 odd years- and that after getting a nice little £50k debt under your belt, completely unstable home life for years with varying periods of unemployment. <<Something that has always interested me is being a pilot, but I'd be the first to admit that I know very little about what the this job involves (something to do with those big things with wings, right? )>> just won't do it! Save yourself a lot of trouble!

[Danny_R]

"I've never sat at the airport for hours just watching planes! Even pilots think those guys are sad b*stards!"

I don't think they're sad, cause ive been there and done that, and a lot of those people will be in the pilots seat in a number of years, if you would get bored just sitting down at an airport watching aircraft, well you won't be much good sitting in the flightdeck for hours on end, day after day, year after year. Flying is a passion without question.

[zerozero]

Ratsarrse wrote: "Just be ready to screw every penny and every minute of training you can get out every company you work for. Disregard outdated nations of loyalty and abandon the idea that working hard and being good at your job will get you anywhere. Good luck!"

Yes sir. Point taken. I am slowly waking up to this sad fact of life. My problem was that I thought it only applied to the big impersonal international corporation and not the little Mom and Pop outfits that I've been working for.

It's no wonder that my friends have accused me of having a "misplaced sense of loyalty."

Well, no longer. Not after two layoffs in four years.

I swear I will never work for another company that describes itself as a Big Family.

Yeah, the Manson Family.

Really I hate to sound so bitter in front of the young ones but I guess it's better than writing about the surly bonds of Earth and other pap.

It is possible to have a wonderful time in this industry if you have a sense of adventure, a sense of humor, and a sense of what's truly important in life (for me: friends and family).

Fly safe.

[Mattuk]

hey thehoop. i am 18 years old and i am about to start flying training. i am not yet a qualified pilot, but many things said in here seem to rings some bells in my (maybe somewhat limited) experience so far.

i have wanted to be a pilot since way before i can remember. as notso fantastic said, i have eaten, drunk and slept aeroplanes since i was 7 (as well as rugby of course!) and i started flying lessons at egka when i was 13. it's all i've ever wanted to do. however, i am about to go to flying school with my best mate, whom has never really shown an interest in being a pilot. about 6 months ago, he turned round and said he was going to join me on the flying course. now, he is a smart bloke and i desperatley hope we both succeed. the point is i think everyone has a point, i have wanted to fly since i was iddy bitty, but we will probably both enjoy the flying/lifestyle etc... just as much as each other and although it probably makes it more likely you will retire as a pilot if it's all you've ever wanted to do, a new found interest should be eagerly followed!

i am hopefully going to oxford aviation school once i've passed all their selection tests. if you want any details, go to www.oxfordaviation.co.uk or email me at [email protected] and i will happy tell you what i know! whatever you do - enjoy!

Matt

[Maximum]

NotSoFantastic has got it exactly right.

You may begin this career with a passing interest, but you won't stick it out unless it is in your blood.

I knew I would fly from as far back as I can remember. At the age of eight I could have told you all about aeroplane and helicopter aerodynamics and how to fly them. This is the level of interest displayed by nearly all the pilots I know who are worth their salt. Perhaps at different ages, but at some point they realise they have to fly, and nothing else will do. From that point on, they live, sleep, eat flying.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but if you do decide to become a professional pilot, this is the kind of commitment you will be up against when you compete for jobs.

I have to repeat NotSoFantastics' sentiments: "[QUOTE FROM the Hoop ]<<Something that has always interested me is being a pilot, but I'd be the first to admit that I know very little about what the job involves (something to do with those big things with wings, right? )>> just won't do it!"

And having said all that, the job can still suck bigtime.

Of course, if all this just makes you even more determined to fly, then good luck.

[ratsarrse]

NotSoFantastic has got it exactly right.

Well, I'm not so sure. Some people might have been fixated on aeroplanes since they were in the womb, but that doesn't make them any more likely to succeed than someone who has a passing interest at 21 and decides to investigate further. A pasing interest can remain just that, or it can be the seed that grows to become a successful career in aviation and a lifelong passion. I vaguely recall that one Prooner had little interest in flying until receiving a trial flight as a gift (can't remember who it was off-hand) and the fatal attraction developed from there...

Everyone has to start somewhere.

[Notso Fantastic]

I allegedly wanted to be a Vulcan pilot from about 4 or 5. Here I am 50 years later, a 747 pilot, and I still want to be a Vulcan pilot. Bit sad really. But I still don't want to be anything else. On the strength of a sudden passing whim, tell me who is going to go into hock for £50k+ for a job they don't really know they'd like? It's not any criticism of anybody to say 'are you sure you are really suited enough to a very arduous and difficult career, with your earning ability dependent upon unstable employers, parsimonious accountants, and doctors with big teeth who are going to make you jump through hoops every six months?' Be sure- be very sure! It takes a lot of enthusiasm and love of aeroplanes to stand the course. The job has been good to me, but I had a lifelong dedication. One of my closest friends who trained and joined with me left after 10 years to start his own office business. Another's health failed. One third didn't complete the course. Several more had health problems. Half who started in 1969 are gone. Not many who suddenly fancy it are going to take the difficult parts. But good luck if you go for it........but you won't!

[Miserlou]

To quote Richard Briers reply on Parkinson to anyone who "really, really, really wants to be an actor."

"Don't, Don't do it.
If you really can't do anything else then you have to go for it with total commitment!"

The happiest pilots are those who are totally dedicated and have had to work hard to get there.

The most dissatisfied are those who got a fast-track (integrated) course and never had to struggle, scrounge, beg or steal.

[thehoop]

After reading some of the posts here I have to say one thing....it sounds like a really crap job! I don't think it would be, but some of the attitudes of the people who claim to have had a passion for flying since they were 5 surprise me. They don't sound to be happy with their career choices at all!

I've been interested in flying for quite some time. 'Interested' in that I've done nothing about it. I'm 20 but I've always been busy with school/ uni and sports. I wanted to join the RAF at uni but couldn't as I had other commitments. This didn't prevent me from watching loads of discovery channel programmes about fighter pilots wishing it was me!

I don't think that you have to have the sort of anorak style interest that is proclaimed here for anything in life. Just because you don't stand at airports for hours licking windows doesn't mean that you wouldn't enjoy flying! You can develop a passion for anything at any time. A few years ago I had never done thai boxing, but within minutes of walking into a gym I was hooked. Its now been 3 years and its taken over my life! I would never have thought I would end up doing muaythai, but I most certainly have!

I'm in a position where I have a degree and my youth. There is many different career choices that I could make just now that would take my life in many different directions. I'm taking my time over the decision. Flying might not be my number one choice just now, but I'd rather I took the time to research it now, than regret it when I'm an old man of 30!

Thanks for your help!

[Notso Fantastic]

Enjoy the office!

[thehoop]

Office work! lol Thats what scares me! I wake up screaming in the night thinking that I could be stuck behind a desk until I'm 60! :D

Thats why I'm trying to look at other professions, such as piloting, policing and drug dealing! :D

Whats all this talk about going into £50K debt to become a pilot? I thought that you appled to an airline such as BA and they would train you? I take it I'm way off the mark there!

I know that there's ways of doing it privately, but aren't would-be pilots sponsored by airlines?

Go easy...

[G-ALAN]

I passed up a chance to go to uni for a career in flying. I know alot may say it's mad but I figured there was no point in wasting 4 or 5 years because flying is what I really badly want to to and nothing in this universe will satisfy or fill the large void in my life but flying! I've only recently obtained my PPL and I'm still paying through the teeth just to stay current and I know I've alot more finacial heartache to come but I won't stop till I get what I want. I eat, talk, and dream of aviation and whenever I'm down here, I'm always wishing and thinking about being up there. If you don't feel the same way as I do then I don't think flying would be a wise choice of career. You should however take a few lessons and maybe go for your PPL, you never know you may become hooked and want to make a career from it. :ok:

PS. I once travelled to the airport just to see an AN-124 land and depart :O

[Notso Fantastic]

Chaps- I do sympathise. When you are starting out on the jobs trail, it is a nerve wracking time. I remember my one focus was to get into a company and pension scheme for life. I wish I hadn't been so afraid of being out on my own, but I really didn't have a bean at the time. And now we are told you ain't gonna have it anyway- everybody has to be more mobile. So I have been in a company (and pension) for umpteen years, and I look around, and the wealthy people are not the ones who have been working diligently for someone else for ever- you don't get wealth working for other people! Had I not been stuck with a family, I would have become a property developer (and got rich). And people are doing it now. And if it's not property, it will be something else. Now, I would seriously look at becoming a plumber, and employing others to do it. What else can you name your price and have people willingly pay? That, or dentistry, but there's too much work with that! But sometimes, only one thing will do, and GALAN has unfortunately got the bug. I have learnt that if you want something badly enough in life, and you are able, you will get it. Those pilots have to come from somewhere, and so many BA are retiring now and in the next few years the opportunities will be there. So if it's really what you must do, good luck. But it isn't the only job in the world.

[AllGoodNamesAreTaken]

thehoop

If you think that airlines such as BA sponsor you today then you are sadly misread on the subject! Getting a fATPL/IR will cost you anything between 35k to 70k and then what about the 25k for the type rating that you might need to get a job in these "difficult times"

I've wanted to be a pilot since I was 4, I’m now 25. I've done the education route, I've got a PPL, going for a class one medical in a couple of weeks, I've cleared my student debt and now I’ve been to see my bank manager about getting another £75,000 on my mortgage to train as a pilot and I’ve spent more hours than I care to think in the last few weeks researching every piece of info on flight schools, training routes etc etc etc.

Yes flying is something you can develop an interest in but its got to be a pretty serious interest to consider swallowing everything that is associated with getting into that career at the moment. How are you going to afford your loan repayments in the 3-5 years that it might take you to find a job .....

Oh and Hi fellow PPruNers ... I’m new I’ve been lurking for a long time but thought I should register now that I’m getting close to spending large amounts of cash that I don't have :o)

Blue Skies
Stephen

[noisy]

Hey Hoop,

The best thing you can do is try it. I've recently begun studying for a PPL and I'm enjoying it (having been an aviation junky for yeas).
Only problem so far has been airsickness and I think I'm getting on top of it.

Spend some time flying, spend some time with the people and see if you like it. You may have to forego that stereo you were planning to buy, but I think it's worth it.

I'm not planning to be an airline pilot though: too much competition for a job that is apparently not that great.

Regards,

noisy

aka Sick Over The Side :yuk:

[Notso Fantastic]

Well AGNAT, welcome to the club of weirdos! You obviously have the bug that nothing will stamp out. You will go far my boy! (maybe even Tenerife). Just take heart- there are so many of us heading for the exit door soon someone has to replace us!

[no sponsor]

and now I’ve been to see my bank manager about getting another £75,000 on my mortgage

Why do you need 75K when you've already got a PPL and hours under your belt?

I'd be careful about borrowing such large sums. You still need to pay it all back at the end of the day!

[Brad737]

I've found that those who chase the almighty dollar tend to be unhappy with whatever choice thet've made. Doctors, pilots, whoever. If they've chosen a profession in which they lack a passion then it wears thin sooner or later. I fly and have enjoyed all of my jobs, even the unenjoyable ones. Yet I know pilots that sincerely hate their job and wish they could retire NOW or go back in time to re-do their life. These personality types would feel this way ussuslly no matter what, or maybe they really did pick the wrong line of work for them(I suspect the former). In a recent study, a majority of doctors responded that they would not pursue medicine if they had to do it over again. It takes as long to become a professional pilot as it does to become a doctor. Once you've invested that much effort into one field it's virtually impossible to change direction so be very sure what any career involves before committiing. Flying, as in any other endevour, rewards, or bestows lady luck, differently throughout the ranks. If you make it, great. If not, at least you enjoy what you're doing which is more than many many others can claim.

[scroggs]

theHoop you've chosen a bad time to be considering aviation! The industry is just beginning to creep out from under the worst recession it has suffered since WW2. There have been many jobs and airlines gone down the tubes in the last couple of years, and many of those that are left are struggling. Hence the world-weary cynicism you read in this thread - and others.

However, it won't always be like that. Things are beginning to look up, and I believe that profits, expansion and jobs are not far off in many parts of the world. It's too early in the cycle to expect airline sponsorships - you're going to have to be prepared to pay for your own training, and it won't be cheap.

It helps if, like Notso and many others here, you're an out-and-out enthusiast, but it's not a prerequisite. I, like you, only decided to investigate aviation as a career once I was 21. I'm still here, 26 years and 11000 hours later! I did it via the RAF, and joined the airlines later in life. I've had a great time, though I'll never be rich, and I have no intention of packing it in until I have to.

Beware, though. The airline industry is as vicious and cut-throat as any in commerce. These are big companies and, just as in any other multi-national field, people are not thier most important asset, whatever the companies may profess. As was said earlier, you are an employee; a resource - nothing more. You'll get the same lack of respect from the system that you'll hear about from your peers in IT, medicine, engineering, banking, law, or whatever.

But we have the best view!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

By all means target an aviation career out of a passing interest and a desire to avoid a desk job.

Just be aware that there are a frightening number of people out there with the same intent who have an awesome insight and understanding of whats involved. Which rather puts you on the back foot.

Not too late to get hooked though - go do a PPL.

Cheers,

WWW

[thehoop]

Once again thanks for your feedback. Its been really helpful. I have to say, though, that I'm surprised at the amount of debt pilots are getting themselves into for a job that few here seem to enjoy!

My main interests in flying were to pilot harrier jumpjets or Apache helecoptors! I wanted to be an RAF pilot. Sadly the RAF haven't discovered spectacles yet so that career is out the window!

To be honest, flying a passenger jet for 1000 miles doesn't really hold the same appeal. It seems a world apart from military aviation, although if recent newsreports are anything to go by, you've probably got more chance of being shot down than an RAF pilot!

Thanks once again. BTW this is some forum if you're into planes! 500+ online at one time! Although the name pprune is quite simply poor! Don't know what they were thinking!

[scroggs]

I flew throughout my RAF career with glasses. While you couldn't join with them then, I had heard that the RAF were more flexible now? Perhaps not.

As for getting shot down, as long as you're nowhere near the US Army, you should be safe enough - military or civil!

[moo]

I have known since age 4 what I wanted to do when I was a grown up. I flew longhaul regularly and loved every minute of it. When my family and I arrived at our destination, my Father, Mother and Sister would be waving frantically to the relatives on the airport balcony while I would be walking backwards looking at the aeroplane! At the grand old age of 24, with approx. £35K saved and saving the rest at a rate of £700 per month whilst working for the Big Airways as an avionic technician on some of the latest longhaul aircraft and finishing my Aeronautical Engineering degree, I still want to do nothing else and my optimism, passion and drive to succeed are far greater than any negative thought in my mind. It is killing me at the moment, but I never let the odds keep me from pursuing what I know in my heart I was meant to do.
Sometimes I worry that the industry will have changed even more dramatically by the time I get to do what those pilots did when I was a young traveller. I was innocent then and a DC10 Zambian Airways aircraft was the biggest thing I had ever seen! Now, I work on the 747-400 and 777 fleet and a lot of the mystery of these beasts has been taken from me. As I get older and wiser, I find myself on very, very rare occasions wondering if chasing this career it is worth such a large investment in monetary and life terms. Sometimes I feel like kicking myself for 'choosing' the one career that has the rockiest path.

Everytime I sit down and think about it hard and think back to those innocent days, I can't help but feel sad that they are gone and I was never part of them as an airline pilot.

I WILL NOT miss out again.

[daredevil]

The hoop:

I wish you all the best as I am about to take the same leap and to know that there others like me around brings a warm feeling to heart and ITT;)

[Groundloop]

Thehoop, pprune is actually a very good name for this bulletin board - it is a play on words. Although it comes from the initials of the board title it was chosen because Pilot Officer Prune was quite a famous aviation character. He was a cartoon character the RAF used in WW2 to publicise to their pilots the various mistakes that could be made and their consequences. Humour is always a good teaching aid.

[silverknapper]

I didn't know that!!
Not only have I learned about Global climatology today, but also that new fact. This really does broaden the mind this flying business!!!
Seriously though Hoop you have seen the determination and depth of feeling this subject arouses. I am doing the Groundschool at the mo, sitting at home and it is hard to keep motivated - and I was a sad git who went to the airport to look at airplanes when I was a kid. Just be absolutely certain its what you want, it's an expensive business to play at.

SK