Waypoints

[Finbarr]

(I'm sure this one has been aired here before but this is my first time on this (ie ATC) Forum)

What is the point of having waypoints that are [apparently] never used (such as DELBO, BEREK) and then using DME distances before a station instead (eg when coming down from up north one is cleared to "F200 75 before MID" then later "F150 50 before MID".

Why not give these points names and then we wouldn't have to create them in our route?

[qwerty2]

The CAA pen pushers require a named waypoint where routes cross although the availabilty of viable 5 letter names is already stretched.

Very often these waypoints don't meet the operational need to define a descent or climb against other traffic/sectors so you get a DME instruction instead.

[Arkady]

Some operators have difficulty finding intersections, particularly if a direct route has been issued that has caused the FMS to drop the point. Nav Aids always seem to be able to be found whether they are on the planned route or not.

[fourthreethree]

You are assuming you are on route. If you are on a direct track to, say, REFSO, then the position 20NM before REFSO can be anywhere on a 20NM radius around REFSO.

I choose this as an example because if you were on route, then we would say be level at GORLO, which was created simply because it is 20NM before REFSO.

[055166k]

You think you've got problems, you should look at the local instructions [ manual of ATC procedures part 2 ] for the London Centre at Swanwick....a mind-boggling mess of inconsistency. Examples: ..inbound to London TMA from west on WILLO or OCK STAR we have to say .....xxxx level 40 miles before MID or OCK respectively.....even though the STAR chart specifies a different target for "descent planning"......however if you are on the LOREL 1S STAR to EGSS/EGGW we have to say ....xxxx level 15 miles before NIGIT ..even though the STAR route goes to the same OCK VOR that the OCK STAR for Heathrow does. The latest brain-mangling mess is on A25 inbound to Liverpool from the South. It was thought by others that the poor controllers could not remember what time of day it was, and so we have to give a KEGUN 1D STAR at all times even though the published procedure that the pilot has specifies a LIVPO STAR......Please don't laugh because the best is yet to come......we have to instruct Liverpool traffic to be level 20 miles before MONTY [ which of course is a DME fom WAL] ...guess where 20 miles before MONTY is...it is exactly at NITON. I think this highlights your excellent point rather too well!