Usual Routes to fATPL

[p.savage]

According to EFT's web site (www.flyeft.com) the below route is what they suggest. That is fine and all, but how about doing the exams first, then going out to EFT for the flying. Would this be viable? Would I have to meet any deadlines? Is there a time limit to getting CPL/IR after sitting the first exams?

Qualification obtained /
Training Goal Type / duration of study:

T=Theoretical Study
F=Flight Instruction
S=Solo Flight Time
I=Work as EFT Instructor

Phase 1 12 weeks

JAA Private Pilot's Licence (PPL) T, F
JAA Night Rating T, F
Structured Experience Building S
JAA IMC Rating T, F
Structured Experience Building S
JAA Multi-Engine Rating T, F

Phase 2 30 weeks

JAA ATPL Theory T

Phase 3 10 weeks

Structured Experience Building S
JAA Commercial Pilot's Licence (CPL) T, F
JAA Flight Instructor Rating T, F, S

Phase 4 12 weeks

FAA Instrument Rating T, F
FAA Commercial Pilot's Licence (CPL) T, F
FAA Certified Flight Instructor (CFI) T, F

Phase 5 up to 2 years

JAA Night Rating Instructor T, F
EFT PPL Instructor I
JAA Multiengine Instructor T, F
CPL Instructor upgrade T, F
EFT CPL Instructor I
JAA Instrument Rating Instructor T, F
EFT IMC Rating Instructor I

Phase 6 5 weeks

JAA Instrument Rating I




Cheers
Paul

[Capt BK]

p.savage

Unfortunately you need a PPL before you can start and sit your ATPL's.

Also, if your building time specifically to get your CPL/IR in the shortest possible time I personally fail to see the point of doing an IMC. Don't get me wrong, i'm not dismissing the merits of the IMC at all. If your planning on doing any serious amount of personal flying in the UK I would say it's virtually essential!

All i'm saying is if your planning on doing all your training and hour builing in the US up to your IR it seems pointless to have an IMC.

CBK

[Hulk]

I would do that if I had to do it again:

PPL in the USA (small school)
time building
US IFR
multi IFR

during time building in the USA:
JAA Modular course

when back in europe:
Brush up course
JAA exam
15h flight for JAA IR+ CPL check ride
MCC course

then: 2 options
1. back to the USA to log time or do a cfi in the USA or UK
2. do a type rating

then apply for an airline!!!

[p.savage]

Uh oh.

Thats not really what I wanted to hear. However, thanks for your replies.

CBK, the reason I need an IMC in the USA is because I will be teaching it as a flight instructor with EFT. That's the only reason!

Cheers

Savage

[FlyingForFun]

P.savage,

There is a 3-year time limit between passing your last exam and getting your CPL/IR. There is (I think) an 18-month time limit between passing your first exam and passing your last exam. So, from that point of view, you don't want to start the exams too early. Apart from which, as Capt BK said, you need a PPL before your exams.

I think it makes sense to leave at least some of the hour building until after the exams. Otherwise you'll be going into the CPL training very out of practice, and it will take longer to get the CPL than it would otherwise. I note that the course structure you've given does include some hour building between the exams and the CPL, but you don't say how many hours are included in this particular chunk of hour-building.

Capt BK - I would disagree with you regarding getting the IMC as part of your hour-building. You have to fly for around a hundred hours, you may as well do something useful with that time. The IMC has several benefits - not least of which is that it has to make the IR at least a little bit easier. When the alternative is to fly around aimlessly, I'd definitely opt for the IMC.

FFF
-----------

[Hulk]

There is no IMC license in the USA.
the only one I know which let you fly in IMC is an instrument rating which will be endorsed on the back of your FAA license after 40h instrument (count 50h) and a written test+a check ride.

[Capt BK]

FFF,

Point taken, if i where to start again I would probably have done the IMC as well. My only concern was if p.savage were to be doing all his flying in the US on a fast track route in minimum hours (and money) the 15hrs he would spend P U/T may possibly be better used gaining PIC for his CPL/ME. I would definately agree that the IMC is worth doing if time/money permits. As he would need it to instruct it sounds good:D

CBK:ok:

[Hulk]

what is IMC???

[Evo]

The IMC is a UK-only rating - minimum of 15 hours training plus exam and test. In some ways it's a bit like a mini-IR with more restrictions (higher minima, no access to class A airspace). For more info, see here (http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/fcl/document.asp?groupid=292).

It's a PPRuNe tradition to debate the safety or otherwise of an IMC rating about every two or three months... ;)

[Hulk]

I see, my point of view is: "IMC" is not ICAO and not "legal" outside UK. So what's the point? better to go directly to an instrument course.

the good point of this "IMC": the time loged under instrument (Hood or actual)can be used for a FAA IFR. the FAA asks for 40h under instrument, 25 hours with a Instrument FI(not sure if it's 15 or 25h).Personlaly, I think It would be cheaper to go to the US , pass the IFR (around 50h), then convert in the UK.

you must be able to read, speak,and understand English, not British!

:p

[rich49]

Has anyone undertaken an ATPL distance learning course AFTER the CPL/MECR/IR? I ask because I was thinking of holding down a job whilst training for the CPl/MECR, IR, and CFI, saving up for a full time ATPL course, then leaving the job to enrol on the 7 month ATPL course rather than go distance learning (and your not restricted to the 3 year time limit to get a CPL after the ATPL exams either!). Can you not take the ATPL exams last?
Cheers
Richard.

[Evo]

Hulk

I see, my point of view is: "IMC" is not ICAO and not "legal" outside UK. So what's the point? better to go directly to an instrument course.

IR costs more and you have to do all those exams. Unless you're going commercial - when you have to have the Multi/IR - then the JAA IR is out of reach of most people. The FAA IR, on the other hand... :)

rich49

Has anyone undertaken an ATPL distance learning course AFTER the CPL/MECR/IR?

This wouldn't work, although I guess you could do it. At a minimum you need the CPL theory exams before the CPL skills test and the IR theory exams before the IR test. At best this would be only very slightly less work than the ATPL exams (and possibly more), it would be more expensive (CPL theory+ IR theory costs more than ATPL theory) and then I think you would have to do the ATPL exams again afterwards because you only had the CPL exam credits.. :{