Which UK airlines fly between non-UK airports?

[The SSK]

Whatever anybody thinks about the EU, it is undeniable that the creation of the Single European Air Transport Market between 1993 and 1997 was a landmark achievement which could not have come about otherwise. In other words, no such thing (within the single market) as a 'British' airline, 'Irish' airline etc. Only community carriers, free to fly where they chose, as often as they chose, with whatever prices they chose.

Brexit would probably not change anything in this respect because it's already happened.

[EI-BUD]

Whatever anybody thinks about the EU, it is undeniable that the creation of the Single European Air Transport Market between 1993 and 1997 was a landmark achievement which could not have come about otherwise. In other words, no such thing (within the single market) as a 'British' airline, 'Irish' airline etc. Only community carriers, free to fly where they chose, as often as they chose, with whatever prices they chose.

The SSK, I agree completely with your closing line that things probably wont change. However, the above comment is worthy of some debate. Most would agree deregulation has been a good thing. More people travelling and lower pricing in most cases. However, in the long term there are huge down sides. Look at the US. There are now a few big carriers and a few niche ones. Deregulation has lead to huge competition, loss making carriers until we arrive today where consolidations is the order of the day, we are back to square 1, few carriers charging higher prices. The US airline industry is now collectively profitable (not all down to low fuel prices), the customer is paying more.

The UK has a handful of airlines now, whereas say at the turn of the century there were probably 3 times as many. The resultant is too much power held by a few big carriers. The downside, some of the smaller airports get nothing. There is an argument to be had on this topic. Not clear cut positives all over.

Less jobs it could be argued with fewer carriers, hence duplication of roles removed, eg bmi adsorbed into BA, BA short haul adsorbed into Flybe, etc. etc. And despite the growth in low cost flying some sources say that it is likely if there had no rise in the low cost airlines, we would still probably see almost as much air travel, just in a different form. I'd be glad to hear the perspectives of others on this topic.

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by Helen49

ATNotts

The remainers [represented by the Chancellor] are this very day making very precise pronouncements about the consequences of Brexit.......whilst as you rightly say 'nobody can make such statements'!

We do, however, know that membership of 'the club' is exceedingly costly; that the bureaucratic costs of EU membership are massive; that it is a huge gravy train; that it is run to a significant extent by unelected Council officials; that it has resulted in unacceptable immigration figures which the UK's infrastructure cannot support; that it has year's worth of unaudited accounts! We also know that historically the British have been world leaders at invention, enterprise, trading and commerce....we don't need the EU and we certainly don't need the additional countries which are likely to be joining the EU in the future.

It is time to run our own country, make our own laws, control our own borders, decide how we spend our taxes and re-establish trading arrangements and transport systems which served us well in the past. Nothing to fear about being sovereign in our own land!

Everything you say is true - supposing you lived in the latter part of the 19th / early years of the 20th centuries. The world has moved on, not necessarily for the better, but we are where we are, and therefore romantic notions of how "great" Britain can plough a lone furrow are no longer viable.

SWBKCB

Can't agree with you more - but I guess it is inevitable that any thread started here that asks or makes points about the UK and commercial aviation post the referendum is going to become another in / out thread. It is the most important decision most of us will make in our lifetimes, and it will affect the younger generation long after most of posting here are in our boxes. You may be sure however that I will not be the first, on any thread in AA&R to turn the discussion in a political direction - I'll leave that to others.

[Fairdealfrank]

The advantages of staying in are, amongst others:-

Retaining simplified arrangements for the movement of good across borders - no transit documents, vehicle permits, customs clearance, outlaying of VAT up front on import, exports clearance.

Free movement of people allowing Brits to live and work in other EU States.

Freedom of UK based airlines, especially EasyJet to use UK registered aircraft to operate internal EU services - setting up a separate company within the EU would negate the problem, but would be an increased cost to their businesses.

The laws relating to maximum working hours, parental leave, TUPE - all of which a Conservative government would undoubtedly repeal within hours of being released from the EU.

Freedom to buy goods across borders when travelling without incurring the wrath of HMRC (and bills for VAT and excise duty).

...................if it is so good, why do we never hear any of this from the remain campaign?

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by Fairdealfrank

...................if it is so good, why do we never hear any of this from the remain campaign?

I really wish I knew the answer to that question; and I am 100% behind the Sturgeon woman, when she say that the campaign, if it is to succeed, has to emphasize the positive, rather than try and put the fear of God in voters.

[Rood]

Interesting points, but if you accept the dodgy dossier as true then you are signing up to mass migration into the UK forever. Whatever that does for UK airlines it will probably be the final nail for all the GA airfields that were designated brownfield housing estates as the masses have to go somewhere. So in the end not good for those who love flying over sitting in cheap flight tubes with dayglow seats. Democracy or a cheap weekend in Prague, your choice.
As someone commented earlier this thread is probably now likely to be sent to Jet Blast so I`ll leave it at that.

[The SSK]

If you try hard enough, you can blame everything on migrants.

Well done.

[Rood]

Originally Posted by The SSK

If you try hard enough, you can blame everything on migrants.

Well done.

Ah yes always accuse someone of racism when nothing else works...

Anyway I blame John Prescott and I thought he came from Hull.

[Fairdealfrank]

I really wish I knew the answer to that question; and I am 100% behind the Sturgeon woman, when she say that the campaign, if it is to succeed, has to emphasize the positive, rather than try and put the fear of God in voters.

Could it be because staying in isn't that advantageous so they use fear?

If you're for remain, don't worry: when it's the establishment, the vested interests, and the metropolitan elite v. ordinary normal people, ordinary normal people ain't going to win. Simple as really.

If you try hard enough, you can blame everything on migrants.

Well done.

Ah yes always accuse someone of racism when nothing else works...

Anyway I blame John Prescott and I thought he came from Hull.

It's about much more than free movement, migration, and/or illegal immigration.

It's not about "racism" either, most of the above are of the same race.

However, it's common sense to know the amount of people settling in the country so that the government can plan: sufficient housing, sufficient school places, sufficient number of jobs, etc., etc..

Also, there is a need to decide who comes in: free movement of criminals is obviously a bad idea (we have enough of our own), again, it's plain common sense.

But none of this common sense is possible as long as the UK remains in the EU.

[jensdad]

To move things back to aviation-related matters (and to reignite an old bone of contention) I wouldn't mind it if we had a 'UK' flag carrier that flew between non-London airports.