London City - Flybe operation
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London City - Flybe operation
Big move for Flybe into London City at the end of the month. Many routes will be hotly contested, Flybe's 7 new routes will be the subject of health competition. I believe this is worthy of some focus and analysis over the coming months.
Routes to Aberdeen, Inverness, Edinburgh, Exeter, Dublin, Belfast City and Amsterdam will be take off.
Some are extremely hotly contested, and it will be of interest to see how Flybe fair on the routes against BA, how they will perform where Cityjet has failed and withdrawn, e.g. Edinburgh as an example.
Dublin has to be the mostly hotly contested and shows that the customer many be in for a bonanza in terms of competition. But how will each of the carriers respectively strategies fair on the route?
The routes goes from 1 operator to 3. 16 daily flights now where prior to Oct 27th there were 5/6 daily by WX, some F50's most by ARJ. It looks like WX are stepping up frequency to mark there long standing operation on the route. When BE and EI were on the route before, WX withdrew until they threw in the towel. How will it be this time, given the new WX owners etc.?
Looking at a sample of flying on first out and last back on Dublin- London City - Dublin on the first day of ops for Flybe and BA -27th Oct. All prices in Euro;all including a checked bag.
BA 588
WX 186
BE 96
Is the BA pricing a reflection of demand?
Pax Number over the last 12 months; rolling 12 months; 192,709
Some strong growth in recent months, may be due to WX lowering fares to influence price perception....?
August 2014 ; 15246 Up 15% on the previous August
July 2014 ; 18793 Up 20%
June 2014; 18574 Up 22%
May 2014; 15996 Down 1%
April 2014; 14024 Down 5%
March 2014; 14472 Up 4%
February 2014; 12624 Up 2%
January 2014; 11400 Up 5%
December 2013; 12045 Up 22%
November 2013; 15599 Up 2%
October 2013; 15072 Down 6%
September 2013; 14432 Down 3%
Routes to Aberdeen, Inverness, Edinburgh, Exeter, Dublin, Belfast City and Amsterdam will be take off.
Some are extremely hotly contested, and it will be of interest to see how Flybe fair on the routes against BA, how they will perform where Cityjet has failed and withdrawn, e.g. Edinburgh as an example.
Dublin has to be the mostly hotly contested and shows that the customer many be in for a bonanza in terms of competition. But how will each of the carriers respectively strategies fair on the route?
The routes goes from 1 operator to 3. 16 daily flights now where prior to Oct 27th there were 5/6 daily by WX, some F50's most by ARJ. It looks like WX are stepping up frequency to mark there long standing operation on the route. When BE and EI were on the route before, WX withdrew until they threw in the towel. How will it be this time, given the new WX owners etc.?
Looking at a sample of flying on first out and last back on Dublin- London City - Dublin on the first day of ops for Flybe and BA -27th Oct. All prices in Euro;all including a checked bag.
BA 588
WX 186
BE 96
Is the BA pricing a reflection of demand?
Pax Number over the last 12 months; rolling 12 months; 192,709
Some strong growth in recent months, may be due to WX lowering fares to influence price perception....?
August 2014 ; 15246 Up 15% on the previous August
July 2014 ; 18793 Up 20%
June 2014; 18574 Up 22%
May 2014; 15996 Down 1%
April 2014; 14024 Down 5%
March 2014; 14472 Up 4%
February 2014; 12624 Up 2%
January 2014; 11400 Up 5%
December 2013; 12045 Up 22%
November 2013; 15599 Up 2%
October 2013; 15072 Down 6%
September 2013; 14432 Down 3%
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I predict BA to carry an EI codeshare to DUB.
But also predict BE will carry BA codeshares on all routes as BE seem to be getting closer to IAG with the introduction of avios as the ff scheme replacing
Flybes own scheme.
cs
But also predict BE will carry BA codeshares on all routes as BE seem to be getting closer to IAG with the introduction of avios as the ff scheme replacing
Flybes own scheme.
cs
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J636,
Yes BE selling cheap flights ex BHD, good luck if you can get it as a one way, without booking a return, they tend to load the return flight with a higher price.
They have a complicated pricing system. I've often heard people saying I only had to pay £15 for my flight out to X from BHD, but no mention of the return flight. I may drive a strong price perception.
Flybe getting close to BA of late, that might explain BE entering onto LCY routes, and putting the airport as a significant base for future expansion, including flying on some of BA's own routes. Alas BA responded.
If paying a fee to participate in Avios scheme is cheaper and easier to manage than their own scheme, well them it makes perfect sense, if Avios can profit from bringing BE into the portfolio, then on a commercial basis it is right. I wouldn't see that as an indication that BE and BA are getting closer. BA also have only got very small stake now in BE....
Yes BE selling cheap flights ex BHD, good luck if you can get it as a one way, without booking a return, they tend to load the return flight with a higher price.
They have a complicated pricing system. I've often heard people saying I only had to pay £15 for my flight out to X from BHD, but no mention of the return flight. I may drive a strong price perception.
Flybe getting close to BA of late, that might explain BE entering onto LCY routes, and putting the airport as a significant base for future expansion, including flying on some of BA's own routes. Alas BA responded.
If paying a fee to participate in Avios scheme is cheaper and easier to manage than their own scheme, well them it makes perfect sense, if Avios can profit from bringing BE into the portfolio, then on a commercial basis it is right. I wouldn't see that as an indication that BE and BA are getting closer. BA also have only got very small stake now in BE....
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Avios and BA Executive Club are not interchangeable. There will be no lounge access for BE Avios'ers (unless of course they already have appropriate level BA Status on a BE codeshare - if any are still left)
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I see that the LCY-AMS route is now advertised as once a day on Satudays and Sundays only. I still can't get what the point of this service actually is, other than to utilise an aircraft for a few hours at the weekend which would otherwise be idol and pick up a few weekend travellers; unless this is a prelude to a more frequent 7 days a week operation which could potentially see off Cityjet but would face tough competition from BA and perhaps KLM if they ever take up the route again?? As routes go, it's one of the strangest I can think of recently.
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Overall I think DUB-LCY will be interesting and the prices being offered could really effect FR and EI. Was out in DUB around 6 weeks ago and overheard a group who would usually fly FR say they all got 50 euro return with Cityjet to LCY and you would always pay over that with FR, 40 would be the lowest and thats to STN. The free snaks with WX to.
If either carrier market it well then they can attract a lot of business away from FR as the costs from STN-London etc add up and them dropping fares won't help them capture such custom back if its lost.
Fair point but the last time they had such structures from BHD was to LGW before it closed.
If either carrier market it well then they can attract a lot of business away from FR as the costs from STN-London etc add up and them dropping fares won't help them capture such custom back if its lost.
J636,
Yes BE selling cheap flights ex BHD, good luck if you can get it as a one way, without booking a return, they tend to load the return flight with a higher price.
They have a complicated pricing system. I've often heard people saying I only had to pay £15 for my flight out to X from BHD, but no mention of the return flight. I may drive a strong price perception.
Flybe getting close to BA of late, that might explain BE entering onto LCY routes, and putting the airport as a significant base for future expansion, including flying on some of BA's own routes. Alas BA responded.
If paying a fee to participate in Avios scheme is cheaper and easier to manage than their own scheme, well them it makes perfect sense, if Avios can profit from bringing BE into the portfolio, then on a commercial basis it is right. I wouldn't see that as an indication that BE and BA are getting closer. BA also have only got very small stake now in BE....
Yes BE selling cheap flights ex BHD, good luck if you can get it as a one way, without booking a return, they tend to load the return flight with a higher price.
They have a complicated pricing system. I've often heard people saying I only had to pay £15 for my flight out to X from BHD, but no mention of the return flight. I may drive a strong price perception.
Flybe getting close to BA of late, that might explain BE entering onto LCY routes, and putting the airport as a significant base for future expansion, including flying on some of BA's own routes. Alas BA responded.
If paying a fee to participate in Avios scheme is cheaper and easier to manage than their own scheme, well them it makes perfect sense, if Avios can profit from bringing BE into the portfolio, then on a commercial basis it is right. I wouldn't see that as an indication that BE and BA are getting closer. BA also have only got very small stake now in BE....
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Originally Posted by EI-BUD
Yes BE selling cheap flights ex BHD, good luck if you can get it as a one way, without booking a return, they tend to load the return flight with a higher price.
Also, an additional £200 per sector to upgrade from 'Just Fly' to 'All In' seems ambitous on a base fare of £30 to 80.
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Most airports levy charges on departing passengers.
Belfast City is unusual ,in that,it applys their charges to arriving passengers.
This means the London to Belfast sector attracts 2 sets of charges ...London departure plus Belfast arrival....while in the Belfast to London direction there are no airport charges .
This is why a one way from London to Belfast is a lot higher than the other way around .
Belfast City is unusual ,in that,it applys their charges to arriving passengers.
This means the London to Belfast sector attracts 2 sets of charges ...London departure plus Belfast arrival....while in the Belfast to London direction there are no airport charges .
This is why a one way from London to Belfast is a lot higher than the other way around .
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Ironic commentary by WW given that when they last operated DUB LCY,when they were the second carrier on the route, they axed months later mid season. Yes it was peak of the crisis but even then the Dublin London market was huge. Still being no.1 route in Europe.
Hence, I wouldn't agree with the comment. I think BE will be pushed to the limit here and WX will probably stick it out . The wider challenge that BE will get from BA, will in my view make BE reevaluate the LCY operation within a year.
Hence, I wouldn't agree with the comment. I think BE will be pushed to the limit here and WX will probably stick it out . The wider challenge that BE will get from BA, will in my view make BE reevaluate the LCY operation within a year.
Last edited by EI-BUD; 16th Oct 2014 at 18:13. Reason: typo
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Hence, I wouldn't agree with the comment. I think BE will be pushed to the limit here and WX will probably stick it out . The wider challenge that BE will get from BA, will in my view make BE reevaluate the LCY operation within a year.
Flybe of two years, no twelve months ago, is a completely different airline to what it is today. They have a much lower cost base than BACF which is evident in their head-to-head prices. The fact they have A LOT of money in their back pocket now is only a helping hand.
If they weren't a threat to BA, BA wouldn't have launched DUB. The fact that they've also added a Saturday flight out of AMS shows Flybe are ruffling feathers.
I'd expect to see those purples dashes in LCY far beyond 2015...
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Anyone who thinks flybe is the same beast as 12 months ago, that has mindlessly launched a LCY folly that will be unsustainable, is clearly not up to date.
It's amazing what a good management team and some cash will do.
It's amazing what a good management team and some cash will do.
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I wish flyBE every success but there are a few issues I see:
Hand baggage size is less than BA Cityflyer. I've had to buy a separate case especially for flyBE flights. May be annoying for existing LCY passengers as even a BA Cityflyer hand baggage only fare will allow more to be carried that flyBE due to the bigger bag size and the additional "personal item".
Those travelling for business may continue to use BA Cityflyer on routes with both carriers because of lounge access, BAEC tier points and connections.
Having spoken with someone who works for BA Cityflyer, I believe the ABZ service was profitable yet was seen as not as profitable as a DUB route. I know that they are short of aircraft but couldn't they have used Eastern Airways to continue the route until they received more aircraft or was the decision also down to LCY slots?
Hand baggage size is less than BA Cityflyer. I've had to buy a separate case especially for flyBE flights. May be annoying for existing LCY passengers as even a BA Cityflyer hand baggage only fare will allow more to be carried that flyBE due to the bigger bag size and the additional "personal item".
Those travelling for business may continue to use BA Cityflyer on routes with both carriers because of lounge access, BAEC tier points and connections.
Having spoken with someone who works for BA Cityflyer, I believe the ABZ service was profitable yet was seen as not as profitable as a DUB route. I know that they are short of aircraft but couldn't they have used Eastern Airways to continue the route until they received more aircraft or was the decision also down to LCY slots?