London City - Flybe operation
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It's amazing what a good management team and some cash will do.
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FYI cityflyer don't have any more aircraft currently on order !
I fully expect that to change but as it currently stands they do not, everything ordered has now been delivered as of last month I think.
cs
I fully expect that to change but as it currently stands they do not, everything ordered has now been delivered as of last month I think.
cs
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I've been working at University of East London, directly across the quayside from the runway at LCY the last few days... I saw FlyBE operating one of their new liveried Q400's into the airport...
Is FlyBE actually opening a base at LCY for just operating aircraft into the airport from other bases like EXT and BHD for example?
If it is to become a base, how many aircraft will they be basing?
Will be good if they operate their Embraer jets into the airport, as there is always perception from the flying public that jet aircraft are their preferred option, when flying and going to head to head with BA atleast keeps them at a level playing field from that perspective.
Is FlyBE actually opening a base at LCY for just operating aircraft into the airport from other bases like EXT and BHD for example?
If it is to become a base, how many aircraft will they be basing?
Will be good if they operate their Embraer jets into the airport, as there is always perception from the flying public that jet aircraft are their preferred option, when flying and going to head to head with BA atleast keeps them at a level playing field from that perspective.
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Is FlyBE actually opening a base at LCY for just operating aircraft into the airport from other bases like EXT and BHD for example?
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The full circle FlyBe experiment. Id be surprised if it was any more of a success this time. If BA cant make ABZ work, what chance has INV on a prop ? Would like to have sat round the table when these ideas were suggested. Our resident "analysts" will be along shortly with some suggestions hopefully...
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CabinCrewe
Do you really think Flybe have gotten into bed with LCY with their eyes shut? If you think they have then you are sadly mistaken.
Remember you are talking about BA "Cityflier", not BA mainline, two completely different commercial operators.
Do you really think Flybe have gotten into bed with LCY with their eyes shut? If you think they have then you are sadly mistaken.
Remember you are talking about BA "Cityflier", not BA mainline, two completely different commercial operators.
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Cabincrewe
Jets are more expensive to run. A lot more. Hence why flybe can make money flying from places like Glasgow to East Midlands three times per day, if you tried that in an A319 you'd be a dead duck. Or shock horror in an Embraer, hence Flybes prop moves.
BA might have lots of cash, but they have lots of cash because they operate routes and get rid when profit dries up. Just because it doesn't work in a jet doesn't mean it won't work in a very efficient turboprop.
Jets are more expensive to run. A lot more. Hence why flybe can make money flying from places like Glasgow to East Midlands three times per day, if you tried that in an A319 you'd be a dead duck. Or shock horror in an Embraer, hence Flybes prop moves.
BA might have lots of cash, but they have lots of cash because they operate routes and get rid when profit dries up. Just because it doesn't work in a jet doesn't mean it won't work in a very efficient turboprop.
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Whilst Flybe may have been at LCY before which remains an airport with a heavy business market, there has been a significant amount of investment and development in east London which must have swelled the potential market. There also seems to be less choice for passengers than was the case 14yrs ago when you could get to various London airports on domestic flights from the regions - when they operated BHDLCY before, they were also operating to LGW and STN multiple times daily. Now, from BHD the options are only LGW or LHR unless you want to go to BFS.
Would be interesting to know the difference in the number of seats available on London (all airports) to Belfast, Edinburgh, full city pairs to see if the number has reduced. I can't help but think that whilst the number of seats may not have changed much the average aircraft size probably has and therefore there is likely to be less choice available now.
Flybe will also be able to be more competitive on price that BA (read that as 'they will lose less if there is a bloodbath due to significantly lower operating costs') and I think that Flybe have a good shot of making LCY work this time around. Flybe know how much the EJets cost to operate so they'll have a good idea on how Cityflyer will be fairing.
I'm not sure if all the routes will fair the same and it's quite possible that frequencies etc may by reconsidered but I would say that Cityjet are the ones with the most shallow pockets with which to fight over the coming months.
It will certainly be interesting to see....anyone have any idea on the passenger load that Flybe is currently achieving on EDILCY during the 'soft launch' period 06th - 25th October?
Would be interesting to know the difference in the number of seats available on London (all airports) to Belfast, Edinburgh, full city pairs to see if the number has reduced. I can't help but think that whilst the number of seats may not have changed much the average aircraft size probably has and therefore there is likely to be less choice available now.
Flybe will also be able to be more competitive on price that BA (read that as 'they will lose less if there is a bloodbath due to significantly lower operating costs') and I think that Flybe have a good shot of making LCY work this time around. Flybe know how much the EJets cost to operate so they'll have a good idea on how Cityflyer will be fairing.
I'm not sure if all the routes will fair the same and it's quite possible that frequencies etc may by reconsidered but I would say that Cityjet are the ones with the most shallow pockets with which to fight over the coming months.
It will certainly be interesting to see....anyone have any idea on the passenger load that Flybe is currently achieving on EDILCY during the 'soft launch' period 06th - 25th October?
Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 18th Oct 2014 at 10:14.
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BA and CFE are on a different AOC but they're not "completely different commercial operators". LCY is a core British Airways market and they've spent a lot of time effort and money getting a loss making RJ operation built up to be the dominant carrier at an airport with high yields and propotionally more golds and silvers on each flight than LHR.
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Flybe don't have any jets able to operate into LCY.
This is what BA operate!
I just think from the passenger perspective, Jets are usually the the preferred aircraft choice, if have a choice of airlines flying same routes. Surely the EMB's will put them on a level playing field with BA.
Fit like min?
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BA Cityflyer operate EMB170/190 which can operate out of/into City, whereas Flybe use the 175/195 variant which I don't think are able to do so.
Stand to be corrected, bit rusty when it comes to variants, engines these days!
Stand to be corrected, bit rusty when it comes to variants, engines these days!
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Surely the EMB-175's and possibly the EMB-195's(???) are capable.
This is what BA operate!
This is what BA operate!
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo
BA and CFE are on a different AOC but they're not "completely different commercial operators". LCY is a core British Airways market and they've spent a lot of time effort and money getting a loss making RJ operation built up to be the dominant carrier at an airport with high yields and propotionally more golds and silvers on each flight than LHR.
Worth remembering that British Airways / IAG owns 100% of BACF and is able to sack and appoint directors of BACF whenever it wants. Any director of BACF knows this and will thus do what is ultimately in IAG's interest.
Flybe do not own Loganair. Directors of Loganair act in the interests of Loganair alone and not for Flybe. The Flybe-Loganair franchise agreement is ultimately able to be terminated by either side.
Flybe do not own Loganair. Directors of Loganair act in the interests of Loganair alone and not for Flybe. The Flybe-Loganair franchise agreement is ultimately able to be terminated by either side.
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The point is davidjohnson6, various posts have alluded to BA being at ABZ & LCY etc etc etc, it is not BA, but BA Cityflier, there IS a difference. So rather than confuse those less in the know, it is better to address the relevant incumbent with the relevant title.
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People seem to writing Flybes obituary on LCY routes vs Cityflyer quite quickly here without thinking about a few facts:
1/Costs - Flybes will be less than half the cost of the equivalent Cityflyer flight on the same route as the dashes sip fuel in comparison to the jets.
2/ Corporate deal market. Business is under pressure to reduce cost and if Flybe have corporate deals in place with City businesses and compete favourably on price then they will use Flybe and not BA. The frequent flyer schemes don't come into it. It's the businesses corporate travel policies that govern which carriers their employees use.
3/ IAG. Don't be under any illiusions about how fast BA would cut Cityflyer loose if they lose money. Ask any former BA Connect/Regional staff. BA/IAG cares about LHR, nowhere else. There will be no propping up of a loss making Cityflyer.
Flybe seem to have their house in order and know what their niche is and now seem to have the management team in place to capitalise on this.
1/Costs - Flybes will be less than half the cost of the equivalent Cityflyer flight on the same route as the dashes sip fuel in comparison to the jets.
2/ Corporate deal market. Business is under pressure to reduce cost and if Flybe have corporate deals in place with City businesses and compete favourably on price then they will use Flybe and not BA. The frequent flyer schemes don't come into it. It's the businesses corporate travel policies that govern which carriers their employees use.
3/ IAG. Don't be under any illiusions about how fast BA would cut Cityflyer loose if they lose money. Ask any former BA Connect/Regional staff. BA/IAG cares about LHR, nowhere else. There will be no propping up of a loss making Cityflyer.
Flybe seem to have their house in order and know what their niche is and now seem to have the management team in place to capitalise on this.
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1/Costs - Flybes will be less than half the cost of the equivalent Cityflyer flight on the same route as the dashes sip fuel in comparison to the jets.
2/ Corporate deal market. Business is under pressure to reduce cost and if Flybe have corporate deals in place with City businesses and compete favourably on price then they will use Flybe and not BA. The frequent flyer schemes don't come into it. It's the businesses corporate travel policies that govern which carriers their employees use.
3/ IAG. Don't be under any illiusions about how fast BA would cut Cityflyer loose if they lose money. Ask any former BA Connect/Regional staff. BA/IAG cares about LHR, nowhere else. There will be no propping up of a loss making Cityflyer.
1. Costs. Think BA Cityflyer are doing just fine or they would not have grown 20% in 3 months and all paid for by IAG.
2. Corporate. Those gold cards do not just appear, they have to have some serious use to keep current and there are more gold customers per head going out of LCY now than any other airport, including LHR!
3. IAG. See point 1 and 2 !!!!!! The only loss maker at IAG is short haul at LHR.
2/ Corporate deal market. Business is under pressure to reduce cost and if Flybe have corporate deals in place with City businesses and compete favourably on price then they will use Flybe and not BA. The frequent flyer schemes don't come into it. It's the businesses corporate travel policies that govern which carriers their employees use.
3/ IAG. Don't be under any illiusions about how fast BA would cut Cityflyer loose if they lose money. Ask any former BA Connect/Regional staff. BA/IAG cares about LHR, nowhere else. There will be no propping up of a loss making Cityflyer.
1. Costs. Think BA Cityflyer are doing just fine or they would not have grown 20% in 3 months and all paid for by IAG.
2. Corporate. Those gold cards do not just appear, they have to have some serious use to keep current and there are more gold customers per head going out of LCY now than any other airport, including LHR!
3. IAG. See point 1 and 2
!!!!!! The only loss maker at IAG is short haul at LHR.