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Old 13th Dec 2015, 01:01
  #2001 (permalink)  
 
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Amsterdam works from everywhere, though! It even works from Teeside, and worked from Manston!
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 01:11
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01475 - just to be pedantic, Amsterdam did not work from Cambridge - Darwin and Cityjet both tried the route in the last few years. However if Southend finds itself with passenger numbers similiar to Cambridge, there are likely far bigger problems to address.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 05:22
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Originally Posted by 01475
Amsterdam works from everywhere, though! It even works from Teeside, and worked from Manston!
It depends what you class as 'worked'. Manston for example was operating at under 50% load factor on a F70! However, KLM stated that it 'worked' due to the number of connecting passengers. This is what they said publicly at least, would have been interesting to see how the route faired long term! While I am honest about the many shortcomings of Southend, I think this is one case where the figures have suprised most people.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 06:21
  #2004 (permalink)  
 
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01475 - just to be pedantic, Amsterdam works from Teesside!

Agree your points through - SEN is a niche player, it'll take time to find its place in the market.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 06:26
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it will not take much to turn the fortunes of Southend around. An airline signing to base a couple of airframes at a site would not make much difference to Luton and Stansted however if that was at Southend it could transform the balance sheet and in turn the airports prospects.
Agreed that just another 2 or 3 airbuses or 737's carrying good loads based at SEN would indeed turn the airport around and would probably be quicker to achieve than trying to attract around 9 non based airbuses or 737's into Southend each day.

But there lies the old problem again that with no public transport links to and from London for the first and last flights of the day. SEN based aircraft have a connectivity issue with the big smoke that all the other London airports don't have.

There are also quite a few horror story reviews appearing on the net about passengers having to sleep on the platforms overnight because the airport won't let passengers back into its closed terminal. Also complaints about £120 taxi fares to London for those that don't want to sleep at the station or spend a night in a hotel.

Last edited by Pain in the R's; 13th Dec 2015 at 07:07.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 08:10
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There are a couple of points in the last few posts that I would like to comment on.

Pain in the R's

Your point about the lack of any adequate public transport links with London for early morning departures and late evening arrivals is well made. Quite why Stobart went to the trouble early this year of obtaining a licence to operate a coach service and then don't do so is beyond my comprehension. As far as the taxi fare to London is concerned £120 is correct for sole use of the taxi but Andrews operate a system whereby you can share a taxi and that can reduce the cost to as little as £25 per person. Not an ideal solution obviously but better than nothing. I'm not quite sure how would-be train travellers "sleep on the platforms overnight" as I understood the station to be securely closed overnight.

01475

Yes, AMS does work well from many other airports but SEN-AMS could probably achieve at least 25,000 ppm if easyJet had the capacity to increase frequencies to meet demand, which they don't have with a three-aircraft base. In the competitive LON market that is quite a success story.

chesna152

I agree that it is pointless making any comparisons with LTN and STN as SEN never has, and never will be, an operation of that size or anywhere near it. Had something come to fruition this year as hoped (and I'm not even going to hint at what it was) none of these criticisms of SEN would have been made so it certainly is the case that a new airline appearing on the scene would put SEN back on track.

LTNman

I'm not sure that certain routes commencing at SEN and then being terminated makes much of a negative impression on prospective operators. Elsewhere this happens; take Flybe at STN, LCY, SOU and BOH recently and easyJet at SEN have swapped destinations rather than withdrawing capacity and that is understandable as the base beds down. I'm sure that they could start serving additional destinations successfully if the decision was made to base additional aircraft at SEN.

What I find really disappointing is that the Stobart Air/Flybe operation seems to be stagnating and they don't seem to have the will to put in place sufficient capacity to expand the operation. A two-aircraft base with additional destinations such as 2 x daily DUB and EDI (which I think would work). plus a couple of weekend leisure destinations such as GCI, would dispel the current impression that even the airport's owner doesn't have much confidence in its route growth potential.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 10:50
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A two-aircraft base with additional destinations such as 2 x daily DUB and EDI (which I think would work).
You can't put an ATR operation up on high volume low fare routes such as these unless you have a very high percentage of local business (higher than average fare) pax comitted to the service - in which case you basically have a niche market.

It seems to me that Southends main weakness is not being able to take 737-800 ops (correct me if I am wrong) as that will be closing out so many potential operators.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 12:33
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737/800

I seem to remember 2 737/800 operated for the Rugby world cup on a French Charter? If so why can they not be used for every day service to simalar destinations I do not have the load factors for these flights.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 12:38
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Boeing 737-800

It seems that these aircraft can operate from SEN as we had a couple in during the rugby world cup. Didn't someone suggest that perhaps Ryanair couldn't operate from SEN due to down-rated engines on their 737-800 fleet? Perhaps my memory doesn't serve me correctly?
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 14:35
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The 2 Luxair 737-800 flights carried 366 pax in total which is 183 per flight.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 15:01
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Rugby charters have little if any luggage carried onboard by the passengers and probably nothing in the hold - makes a big difference to range and viability of a route.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 16:11
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Don't know if this is still the case but Ryanair 737-800's used to have de-rated engines requiring a longer take off run. The minimum length was 6000ft or 1829m. I know someone is now going to list a number of Ryanair airports where that is not the case but even on the Stansted Blackpool service that I used to travel on a few rows of seats were always roped off.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 16:41
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I had a look at some Boeing figures when the two Luxair charters took place and I came up with a full pax payload maximum range with reserves of about 800 nm for aircraft without the de-rated engines. It looked as if LDR was a bit marginal for SEN's 1,604m LDA and probably a non-starter if the runway should be declared WET.

Maybe a 738 driver out there could compute more accurate figures for SEN's runway.

Edit: I'm sure Ryanair's aircraft could not operate commercially from SEN.

Last edited by Expressflight; 13th Dec 2015 at 17:06. Reason: clarification
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 17:01
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After doing a bit of Googling Ryanair use de-rated engines as it increases engine life and reduces maintenance costs. The cost is that the lower maximum thrust means a longer takeoff run I believe thus eliminating Southend.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 19:45
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SEN - Ryanair

Even more important is de-rated engines allow FR to declare lower MTOW's and so attract lower ATC and weight-related landing charges. Rules out SEN for most of their fleet too.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 20:10
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I knew I had read something about Ryanair and Southend - looks like other 737-800 operators might not be as restricted.
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 20:26
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Do you think it will make a difference when airlines take delivery of the
new 737max or 320neo
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Old 13th Dec 2015, 21:27
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Inbound charters are something SEN should try to attract more of. With passengers picked up and returned by coach they won't care which airport is used or what the public transport is like as they will just go where they are taken.

Biz jet traffic is another area that still appears to be ignored yet London is one of the Biz jet capitals of the world.

Last edited by LTNman; 14th Dec 2015 at 05:45.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 05:48
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EZY Lyon first service

On Saturday Easyjet operated their first weekly flight to LYS. I was sad to hear 28 pax out/9 pax return. I am surprised they even bothered to operate it at such a loss, but credit to them. I hope future dates have better support.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 06:16
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There are some real bargains on that route at the moment. Next Saturday from £38, even on Boxing Day flights out are only £49.49. In January most of the flights are £25 each way. That's cheaper than me going to the Scottish Highlands

Last edited by LTNman; 14th Dec 2015 at 06:33.
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