EDINBURGH - 2
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I think Norwegian will be cautious with the MAX intro, they will only have 6 airframes in 2017 .
Like the UK and Europe the big legacy airlines have tended to grow lazy using hub and spoke rather than point to point, there are hundred of smaller regional airports in the US that have more than enough catchment area to support a 737 long haul operation to Western Europe.
I would expect to see a lot of new routes from the US to Europe from Norwegian
Like the UK and Europe the big legacy airlines have tended to grow lazy using hub and spoke rather than point to point, there are hundred of smaller regional airports in the US that have more than enough catchment area to support a 737 long haul operation to Western Europe.
I would expect to see a lot of new routes from the US to Europe from Norwegian
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It's not lazy using hub and spoke FFS. It's a different business model that allows a whole lot more options of getting from A to B (!)
Are Emirates lazy? Perhaps they need to launch EDI-xyz for some reason or other?
There are not hundreds of US airports awaiting p2p direct access to the EU, there's a well known handful and a map WILL be needed to find half of them.
Are Emirates lazy? Perhaps they need to launch EDI-xyz for some reason or other?
There are not hundreds of US airports awaiting p2p direct access to the EU, there's a well known handful and a map WILL be needed to find half of them.
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Skipness
So how do you feel about Norwegian at LGW 3 years on?
Aerlingus tried'failed what chance Norwegian
Laker tried'failed what chance Norwegian
BA tried'failed to make LGW work long haul, watch chance Norwegian (at least 6 dream -liners at LGW next year & double daily JFK who would have thunk it?)
Your looking at things the wrong way round, trust me, viewed from the states these airports that no one has ever heard of in the UK avoid the hassle of ORD, BOS, JFK, how long before Norwegian will be flying East coast into Belfast ? Manchester will have 12 flights a week from mid 2017 with US based aircraft.
So how do you feel about Norwegian at LGW 3 years on?
Aerlingus tried'failed what chance Norwegian
Laker tried'failed what chance Norwegian
BA tried'failed to make LGW work long haul, watch chance Norwegian (at least 6 dream -liners at LGW next year & double daily JFK who would have thunk it?)
Your looking at things the wrong way round, trust me, viewed from the states these airports that no one has ever heard of in the UK avoid the hassle of ORD, BOS, JFK, how long before Norwegian will be flying East coast into Belfast ? Manchester will have 12 flights a week from mid 2017 with US based aircraft.
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Whilst it might not be "lazy" its certainly inconvenient and expensive for the consumer in both time and money and is maintained via a series of nothing more than bribes "paid" to those frequent flyers and business accounts.
It also restricts growth in many medium sized markets and leads to railway type services.
its been very effective in the US via a handful of truly MEGA near single carrier airports for domestic travel because of lack of effective ground travel opportunities either modal or time advantaged.
Its also been applied to long haul by the European Legacies with some success however means that some regional routes that should by viable on PEW numbers alone particularly those from/to the UK/US are effectively priced out by what would appear to be way over capacity in the back of the bus from a certain hub.
What is certainly interesting is the Hub and Spoke model has seen rather less success imho for travel within the EU where actual railway networks exist and some of worlds largest flexible fares (So called LCC) carriers have taken the point to point business model to another level.
With the huge -as much as 40% decline in shuttle traffic over the years particularly on the Manchester- Heathrow route its clear BA can't have retained much of the Manchester- Europe traffic flows |(via the Hub and Spoke model) after shuttering the local services a decade ago.
Few Europeans countenance - Manchester- Dublin- Amsterdam or Stuttgart - Frankfurt- Lisbon as being anything but time waisted journeys yet similar travel with back tracking happens thousands of times a day in the US.
It also restricts growth in many medium sized markets and leads to railway type services.
its been very effective in the US via a handful of truly MEGA near single carrier airports for domestic travel because of lack of effective ground travel opportunities either modal or time advantaged.
Its also been applied to long haul by the European Legacies with some success however means that some regional routes that should by viable on PEW numbers alone particularly those from/to the UK/US are effectively priced out by what would appear to be way over capacity in the back of the bus from a certain hub.
What is certainly interesting is the Hub and Spoke model has seen rather less success imho for travel within the EU where actual railway networks exist and some of worlds largest flexible fares (So called LCC) carriers have taken the point to point business model to another level.
With the huge -as much as 40% decline in shuttle traffic over the years particularly on the Manchester- Heathrow route its clear BA can't have retained much of the Manchester- Europe traffic flows |(via the Hub and Spoke model) after shuttering the local services a decade ago.
Few Europeans countenance - Manchester- Dublin- Amsterdam or Stuttgart - Frankfurt- Lisbon as being anything but time waisted journeys yet similar travel with back tracking happens thousands of times a day in the US.
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You have got to agree Skip that some airports are now a lot more point to point into US than
10 years ago (EDI, MAN and DUB) but others are going backwards (BHX)
10 years ago (EDI, MAN and DUB) but others are going backwards (BHX)
MAN is mainly spoke to hub with VS/DL ATL, AA PHL/JFK/ORD and UA EWR/IAD (IAD ended)
DUB is the same with added hub to spoke of Aer Lingus. Point to point is TUI, Thomas Cook and Norwegian, and indeed VS to MCO, LAS and SFO albeit with Delta connections.
MAN to Europe has many better options than using BA and LHR, however it's clear that the long haul US and EU legacies have their own strengths and alliance connectivity and frequency is what freqeunt fliers demand.
@airtrumpone (REALLY???) LGW long haul leisure has done very well for BA since 2005 and the hub wind down. It is predicated on point to point with little focus on feed but is generally aimed at beach holidays. LGW-JFK is, I think, a strategic strike against Norwegian. As a consumer I love DY, except for the way they pay "their" staff which is from the MOL handbook. With aircraft registered in Ireland, UK, Norway and US crews, Norwegian are one to watch.
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ov-2016-a.html
Having said that, they might be perfect for EDI-US but they might also prevent some US carriers staying. EDI can't stay transatlantic 757 for much longer, new metal is a must as it's not a B787 market so the future may be DY and the 737Max
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 11th Dec 2016 at 23:53.
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I wonder how many longer United will stick with the 757 at Edinburgh?. I imagine they might have to upgrade to a wide body when Norwegian start if they don't want to struggle?
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November PAX up 8.3% to 860k, entirely due to continuing near-20% growth in international PAX. Must be the first Nov when international exceeded domestic, even if only just.
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This is all fascinating stuff. I personally cannot make up my mind about Norwegian even 'though earlier this year I was at a lunch where the founder and CEO delivered a talk and then did Q and A. I cannot decide whether they will go on to continue to grow and prosper like Easy or Ryanair or whether they will eventually implode under the weight of their massive growth, like Air Europe or Laker. Only time will tell. However I think it is a strange time to be expanding transatlantic from the UK given the low value of Sterling. I would think they will need to maximise sales in the USA to make the numbers work.
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Not so strange if you assume that the depressed pound sterling is going to attract loads of new US visitors to the UK as it will be important for Norwegian to maximise USD earnings as its costs will be USD dominated.
Remedy slots
In response to earlier postings, the situation with the remedy slots is that a carrier would be required to fly the slots specifically set aside for the Aberdeen and Edinburgh routes, before then being able to use them on other short-haul routes after three years. In this particular case, unlike some slots offered under other competition remedies such as Philadelphia, the title to the slots never passes to the new operator. It's very much like a leasehold versus a freehold in property terms - these are strictly leasehold.
Announcement imminent, I hear. 4 on EDI, 3 on ABZ, all Q400.
Announcement imminent, I hear. 4 on EDI, 3 on ABZ, all Q400.
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2017
So... We are nearing the end of what has been a very successful year at EDI and certainly I expect the trend to continue into the new year.
What new routes/ airlines do you think will launch/ announce flights to EDI next year?
What new routes/ airlines do you think will launch/ announce flights to EDI next year?
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Well we know norweigan long haul is starting and I'm hopeful that a Chinese airline will start a regular scheduled service.
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Given the economic and political uncertainty, and the new routes already announced by Jet2, I would be be surprised if there are many more new routes, although I would love to see some operator trying a network using 80-120 seat a/c
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I don't see why not, just look at manchester, lots of new routes and new airlines in 2017. Same for Birmingham too. It's really only the U.S. airlines that are cutting back.
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What do you think is likely to be viable? Maybe wizz will decide to try Edinburgh instead of only using GLA. It's too late to launch any new bucket and spade routes.
The fall in the £ is likely to mean that growth is likely to be in inbound visitors, likely to use a/c based on the continent. Of course the Chinese might come......
The fall in the £ is likely to mean that growth is likely to be in inbound visitors, likely to use a/c based on the continent. Of course the Chinese might come......
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What do you think is likely to be viable? Maybe wizz will decide to try Edinburgh instead of only using GLA. It's too late to launch any new bucket and spade routes.
The fall in the £ is likely to mean that growth is likely to be in inbound visitors, likely to use a/c based on the continent. Of course the Chinese might come......
The fall in the £ is likely to mean that growth is likely to be in inbound visitors, likely to use a/c based on the continent. Of course the Chinese might come......