BIRMINGHAM - 6
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not quite sure the points hes trying to make ?
And BHX5DME, I could answer that if satellite imagery showed a new building to the right of the TriStar hotel but those images appear to be old.
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There is a new building going up to the right of the Tristar Hotel which would make an excellent viewing platform ?
No one including you has mentioned it !
Any idea what it is ??
No one including you has mentioned it !
Any idea what it is ??
An airport electricity substation.
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A bit of detail will help
Generalised phrases like
"There is a new building going up to the right of the Tristar Hotel which would make an excellent viewing platform ?"
Do not really convey the context of the situation at all - detail is everything - Scale, how far, what size from what perspective + a snap from a phone (if you are not in imminent danger of being shot) - I'm not being ironic.
I suspect from the wording that it's part of the new tower/ATC complex but context & detail is needed, otherwise it seems like "Kite Flying"
In all honesty as a SLF (Who has flown an aeroplane) - Please advise the poster to google BHX on a suitable browser will help.
For the professionals please be patient. - For the "watchers" and we can be useful, please provide a positive feedback, it's what you are paid for.
In JB I'm as bad as the rest, but as long as it's not a wind up, please cut some slack (Yes I miss Plot-dropper, Slott spotter or what ever he/she was called on another thread) - It was "Fun" to read but I suspect that the quality of the thread discussion (NB Jobs) was damaged.
CAT III
"There is a new building going up to the right of the Tristar Hotel which would make an excellent viewing platform ?"
Do not really convey the context of the situation at all - detail is everything - Scale, how far, what size from what perspective + a snap from a phone (if you are not in imminent danger of being shot) - I'm not being ironic.
I suspect from the wording that it's part of the new tower/ATC complex but context & detail is needed, otherwise it seems like "Kite Flying"
In all honesty as a SLF (Who has flown an aeroplane) - Please advise the poster to google BHX on a suitable browser will help.
For the professionals please be patient. - For the "watchers" and we can be useful, please provide a positive feedback, it's what you are paid for.
In JB I'm as bad as the rest, but as long as it's not a wind up, please cut some slack (Yes I miss Plot-dropper, Slott spotter or what ever he/she was called on another thread) - It was "Fun" to read but I suspect that the quality of the thread discussion (NB Jobs) was damaged.
CAT III
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Air Malta
All quite confusing......flights are bookable on the KM website, a range of fare options are available (Promo, Econmy Saver etc), BHX appears on their drop down list of scheduled destinations and these flights have a 20KG baggage limit and in flight service as per their existing scheduled flights to LGW, MAN. However, a press release on the KM homepage clearly states that these are charter flights (to seven UK regional airports this summer including BHX) and when you get to the final booking screen flights are listed as 'Air Malta Charter Flight'. So is it in all but name really a scheduled flight, the only difference being there is no business class on offer? Come to think of it isn't that what in effect TOM and TCX flights are aswell? The old style BHX online scheduled timetable used to include TOM flights.
Whatever, it's nice to see KM back, twice a week and in daylight hours!
Whatever, it's nice to see KM back, twice a week and in daylight hours!
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RE: Air Malta
Taken from the BHX photo blog; hope this clears things up a bit.
Air Malta are to increase their Birmingham service to twice weekly for the summer 2013 season and move the Tuesday service. These flights operate as a quasi scheduled service - while many of the seats are taken by Tour Operators they are also bookable direct via the Air Malta site
But like you say, nice to have them back. And on a side note I think their new colour scheme is fantastic.
Air Malta are to increase their Birmingham service to twice weekly for the summer 2013 season and move the Tuesday service. These flights operate as a quasi scheduled service - while many of the seats are taken by Tour Operators they are also bookable direct via the Air Malta site
But like you say, nice to have them back. And on a side note I think their new colour scheme is fantastic.
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@ Planeaddict -
There is no problem, the forum seems to have gotten a little stuffy in some areas of late. If people knew how to edit their ignore lists they wouldn't have to try and be superior.
I remember a few years ago that someone was enquiring about the old 'Skyways' restaurant, in the Elmdon terminal, to use as a spotters/visitors area....No idea what happened over that, but it would have made a good site...
I'm not into the spotting thing personally, but in all my years at bhx I found them to all be decent people...
I'm not trying to make a specific point - I'm just offering my views. Don't see the problem.
I remember a few years ago that someone was enquiring about the old 'Skyways' restaurant, in the Elmdon terminal, to use as a spotters/visitors area....No idea what happened over that, but it would have made a good site...
I'm not into the spotting thing personally, but in all my years at bhx I found them to all be decent people...
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Call100 A response
I have to agree with your comments but I realise that I too, have been guilty of "Historic reminiscences" on this thread.
It all stems from those "Let's go watch the plane(s)" Sundays that was about all that the rate payers got for their money, in days long past.
We all have to remember, that we a discussing the elements of operation of companies now.
CAT III
It all stems from those "Let's go watch the plane(s)" Sundays that was about all that the rate payers got for their money, in days long past.
We all have to remember, that we a discussing the elements of operation of companies now.
CAT III
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What a lot of airports in the UK (with a few exceptions) seem to forget is that it is not just the plane spotters who like to spend time at airports. Joe Public and his kids love it too. Provide decent facilities (with reasonably priced parking charges) and airports can provide cost effective spectators facilities. When one considers the excellent facilities provided by such airports as Amsterdam, Zurich, Frankfurt (and in fact the majority of German airports), it's amazing that no such facilities exist at either LHR or LGW. BHX has a number of potential spectator spots but I suspect that they just don't care.
Hotel Tango
You're right, and what is really ironic is that spotting and general interest in aviation is probably higher in the UK than any other European country, yet in the UK the airport operators, and the authorities generally (in the name of security) just seem to want to put barriers (both metaphorical and actual) in the way of the general public, many of whom have to suffer the inconvenience of living close to major airports and would welcome getting something in return.
I believe it is down to the profit imperitive that exists within the UK, to a greater degree than it does in other European countries, where public service enjoys a higher priority.
Whatever, we're in the UK, and stuck with it!
You're right, and what is really ironic is that spotting and general interest in aviation is probably higher in the UK than any other European country, yet in the UK the airport operators, and the authorities generally (in the name of security) just seem to want to put barriers (both metaphorical and actual) in the way of the general public, many of whom have to suffer the inconvenience of living close to major airports and would welcome getting something in return.
I believe it is down to the profit imperitive that exists within the UK, to a greater degree than it does in other European countries, where public service enjoys a higher priority.
Whatever, we're in the UK, and stuck with it!
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We all have to remember, that we a discussing the elements of operation of companies now.
I see no reason why the past, present, and future can't be discussed. I see nothing in the rules to preclude any aviation based subject. Certainly the forum is not here just for those who think they are special in some way. If a subject doesn't interest them they can place people on an ignore list or just not comment at all...
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Changes in attitudes
"Sorry, when did this change then?"
( I don't mean on PPRuNe, but there is a parallel meaning and call100, I think linked with the slight increase in "Stuffyness" I'm not manipulating your meaning but borrowing from it)
Its not a sudden thing but gradual. As soon as Airports ceased to have a civic role and became primarily profit centres, the viewer became secondary to the business of extracting as much as possible in an efficient way from the passengers travelling through the facility.
The advent of Lo-Co carriers has also played its part, but is I think a later factor - Remember the privatisation of Airlines would have been an imperative to reduce handling costs.
I do not mean municipal ownership in this way, per say. A council or councils could operate in exactly the same way. Likewise a company could if they wished, provide spectator facilities; as marketing plus to emphasise the value their facility to the (at the time) non travelling public.
Sadly the utilitarian premise of maximising the cash-flow from a facility prevails.
( I don't mean on PPRuNe, but there is a parallel meaning and call100, I think linked with the slight increase in "Stuffyness" I'm not manipulating your meaning but borrowing from it)
Its not a sudden thing but gradual. As soon as Airports ceased to have a civic role and became primarily profit centres, the viewer became secondary to the business of extracting as much as possible in an efficient way from the passengers travelling through the facility.
The advent of Lo-Co carriers has also played its part, but is I think a later factor - Remember the privatisation of Airlines would have been an imperative to reduce handling costs.
I do not mean municipal ownership in this way, per say. A council or councils could operate in exactly the same way. Likewise a company could if they wished, provide spectator facilities; as marketing plus to emphasise the value their facility to the (at the time) non travelling public.
Sadly the utilitarian premise of maximising the cash-flow from a facility prevails.
Last edited by Guest 112233; 21st Feb 2013 at 14:04.
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@CATIII-NDB.
Apologies, I misunderstood your meaning........
Of course, if BHX could find a way to make it pay, I've no doubt they would develop facilities. That said, the only facility in the old building was at the top of the side steps. That is why most spectators gathered in the the buffet, which was not an official spotting area. So, the only people that made money from spectators was THF!!
The problem of trying to make it pay is that most people don't want to pay for the privilege (?) of looking at the planes.
Onward and upward.....
Apologies, I misunderstood your meaning........
Of course, if BHX could find a way to make it pay, I've no doubt they would develop facilities. That said, the only facility in the old building was at the top of the side steps. That is why most spectators gathered in the the buffet, which was not an official spotting area. So, the only people that made money from spectators was THF!!
The problem of trying to make it pay is that most people don't want to pay for the privilege (?) of looking at the planes.
Onward and upward.....
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seem to forget is that it is not just the plane spotters who like to spend time at airports. Joe Public and his kids love it too.
The worst is Edinburgh, there are *no* facilities worth mentioning landside, much like GLA. Both have a WHS and a pub in a far corner. New terminals in recent years have been at best tin sheds. They are now people processing centres in the UK whereas abroad they are often a proud part of the community, public spaces of a sort.
Given BHX's problems of not being on the radar of the nearby travelling public, turning the clock back a little might not be bad idea.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 21st Feb 2013 at 14:37.
I remember having a discussion with one Paul Kehoe, when he was CEO at Luton about spectator facilities. His view was that they were mainly used by people who brought their own drinks/food and would not spend on parking/entrance fees. So they were of no commercial use to an airport.
If anything, airports have become more commercial over the intervening ten years, so I expect Mr K has not changed his opinion.
If anything, airports have become more commercial over the intervening ten years, so I expect Mr K has not changed his opinion.
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Monarch 320 Sharklet
Hopefully see one of these bad boys in bhx shortly.
Photo Monarch Airlines Airbus A320-214 F-WWBZ
Regards
Barry
Photo Monarch Airlines Airbus A320-214 F-WWBZ
Regards
Barry
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Monarch 320
Never mind the sharklets, look at that amazing blue sky, something we sadly so rarely see in the UK 
I want to go on holiday now!
I'm not a spotter but the pier provides brilliant views of the airfield and close up of planes, shame you need a boarding card to make use of it! To be fair not great in winter but what's wrong with Sheldon Country Park for plane spotting?
I want to go on holiday now! I'm not a spotter but the pier provides brilliant views of the airfield and close up of planes, shame you need a boarding card to make use of it! To be fair not great in winter but what's wrong with Sheldon Country Park for plane spotting?
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The question is would the general public use an indoor viewing area if there was one? The last time I was in the old spectator gallery there was hardly anybody in there; and that was at the height of summer. I know that the pier developments blocked a lot of the views and it wasn’t ideal from a spotters perspective, but for everyday joe public it still offered a decent view of the planes landing and taking off.
I think PK was probably right in what he said as you would often see spotters in there with their own flasks and sandwiches which is fair enough; but that’s not going to make any profit and sadly in today’s economic climate that is what it’s all about.
Besides, there isn't anywhere suitable for an indoor viewing area anyway so the best one could hope for would be something along the lines of the viewing park at Manchester.
I think PK was probably right in what he said as you would often see spotters in there with their own flasks and sandwiches which is fair enough; but that’s not going to make any profit and sadly in today’s economic climate that is what it’s all about.
Besides, there isn't anywhere suitable for an indoor viewing area anyway so the best one could hope for would be something along the lines of the viewing park at Manchester.
Chinapattern
The viewing terrace doesn't need to be covered. I used to use Nürnberg a great deal, and after checking in, if I had time, often went up to the viewing terrace, which is open to the elements, and has glass frontage, which doesn't make photography ideal but viewing / spotting is fine. For the less hardy there is a viewing available inside, where there is also a quality Movenpick cafeteria serving decent food and drink, including beers, at not ridiculous prices.
Special events are help on the terrace year round, including an ice rink in winter!
Entrance is free, and the terrace and cafeteria well patronised, with both enthusiasts and the general public, who use the place because it's a fairly cheap afternoon or evening out for the family.
So, why wouldn't it work here in UK? I guess the first thing is that the catering would be p**s poor, as it normally is, and our stupid licencing regulations would preclude sale of alcohol in areas frequented by youngsters, making it less attractive for dad. Undoubtedly the airport would insist upon charging an entrance fee which would also put off families, but still the airport would benefit from the rake offs from parking and catering.
I honestly think that UK airport management lives in a UK bubble, and never looks at what happens elsewhere in Europe - a problem which I have to say is pretty widespread among our population and I don't suppose for a moment that Kehoe is about to open his eyes, broaden his horizons, and think outside of the "UK box".
The viewing terrace doesn't need to be covered. I used to use Nürnberg a great deal, and after checking in, if I had time, often went up to the viewing terrace, which is open to the elements, and has glass frontage, which doesn't make photography ideal but viewing / spotting is fine. For the less hardy there is a viewing available inside, where there is also a quality Movenpick cafeteria serving decent food and drink, including beers, at not ridiculous prices.
Special events are help on the terrace year round, including an ice rink in winter!
Entrance is free, and the terrace and cafeteria well patronised, with both enthusiasts and the general public, who use the place because it's a fairly cheap afternoon or evening out for the family.
So, why wouldn't it work here in UK? I guess the first thing is that the catering would be p**s poor, as it normally is, and our stupid licencing regulations would preclude sale of alcohol in areas frequented by youngsters, making it less attractive for dad. Undoubtedly the airport would insist upon charging an entrance fee which would also put off families, but still the airport would benefit from the rake offs from parking and catering.
I honestly think that UK airport management lives in a UK bubble, and never looks at what happens elsewhere in Europe - a problem which I have to say is pretty widespread among our population and I don't suppose for a moment that Kehoe is about to open his eyes, broaden his horizons, and think outside of the "UK box".
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January International route figures
Passenger figures from the CAA, average per flight and load factor estimated by using a BHX blog and libhomeradar for movements (2012 in brackets).
Hard work this lot due to the weather and seasonal reductions - please take them with a huge pinch of salt.
A lot of 70% -80% load factors and quite similar to last year. The one that would bring the biggest smile to the beancounters face is Frankfurt with a loss of just 454 pax but a cut of 25% of flights and they added 25% on load factor.
BRUSSELS...7970...(8519)...38 PAX...43%
LARNACA...2635...(2888)...165 PAX...78%
COPENHAGEN...5012...(5478)...63 PAX...61%
GRENOBLE...3250..(1833)...135 PAX...78%
LYON...NIL...(2257).
PARIS...25517...(25907)...82... PAX...68%
BERLIN TXL...3594...(nil)..76 pax...55%
DUSSELDORF...10528...(11402)...47 PAX...55%
FRANKFURT...17187...(17641)...99 pax...75%
HAMBURG...2165...(1046)...52.pax...60%
HANOVER...2887...(2967)...55 pax...65%
MUNICH...4045...(13064)...77 pax...57%
STUTTGART...1275...(2126)...26 pax...33%
CORK...5147...(5354)..42 pax...59%
DUBLIN...35647...(36634)...102 pax...57%
KNOCK...1333...(2614)...30 pax...53%
SHANNON...1765...(2201)...36 pax...66%
WATERFORD...298...(NIL)...50 pax...64%
BERGAMO.....2948...(NIL)....105 PAX...56%
MILAN...1179...(1238)...31 pax...35%
ROME FCO...2645...(nil)...102 pax...58%
VENICE...1818...(nil)...91 pax...45%
MALTA...2300...(2310)...153 pax...81%
AMSTERDAM...32237...(33866)...86 pax...75%
FARO...5135...(5758)...160 pax...82%
Funchal...1289...(nil)...129 pax...63%
ALICANTE...10579...(13332)...176 pax...87%
BARCELONA...4389...(nil)...129 pax...68%
GIRONA...nil...(1143)...
MALAGA...9753...(9652)...155 pax...77%
PALMA...2501...(0)...137 pax...72%
ARRECIFE...5225...(7370)...154 pax...77%
FUERTEVENTURA...2587...(3096)...162 pax...79%
LAS PALMAS...3105...(4678)...155 pax...78%
TENERIFE...11941...(13545)...171 pax...82%
STOCKHOLM ARN....1197....(NIL)...60 pax...50%
GENEVA......9468....(11496).....141 PAX......89%
ZURICH...9468...(11496)...71 pax...67%
ISTANBUL...6413...(4547)...103 pax...65% (based on 155 seats for the A320/738) - 2012 - 103 pax 65% load factor!
PRAGUE...nil pax...(3104)...
BUDAPEST...859...(nil)...143 pax...77%
KAUNAS...NIL...(2542)
BYDGOSZCZ...4635...(3898)...155 Pax..82%
GDANSK/NIL...(2653)...
KATOWICE...2903...(2453)...145 pax...77%
KRAKOW.....2764.....(NIL)...142 PAX...75%
RZESNOW...4144...(2628)...148 pax...78%
BRATISLAVA...3217...(3661)...161 pax...85%
ASHKHABAD...4654...(5084)...120 pax...67%
DUBAI..39446...(42834)...318 pax...78% -
ISLAMABAD...7345...(7794)...204 pax...55%
NEWARK...6379...(6376)...129 pax...75%
Pete
Hard work this lot due to the weather and seasonal reductions - please take them with a huge pinch of salt.
A lot of 70% -80% load factors and quite similar to last year. The one that would bring the biggest smile to the beancounters face is Frankfurt with a loss of just 454 pax but a cut of 25% of flights and they added 25% on load factor.
BRUSSELS...7970...(8519)...38 PAX...43%
LARNACA...2635...(2888)...165 PAX...78%
COPENHAGEN...5012...(5478)...63 PAX...61%
GRENOBLE...3250..(1833)...135 PAX...78%
LYON...NIL...(2257).
PARIS...25517...(25907)...82... PAX...68%
BERLIN TXL...3594...(nil)..76 pax...55%
DUSSELDORF...10528...(11402)...47 PAX...55%
FRANKFURT...17187...(17641)...99 pax...75%
HAMBURG...2165...(1046)...52.pax...60%
HANOVER...2887...(2967)...55 pax...65%
MUNICH...4045...(13064)...77 pax...57%
STUTTGART...1275...(2126)...26 pax...33%
CORK...5147...(5354)..42 pax...59%
DUBLIN...35647...(36634)...102 pax...57%
KNOCK...1333...(2614)...30 pax...53%
SHANNON...1765...(2201)...36 pax...66%
WATERFORD...298...(NIL)...50 pax...64%
BERGAMO.....2948...(NIL)....105 PAX...56%
MILAN...1179...(1238)...31 pax...35%
ROME FCO...2645...(nil)...102 pax...58%
VENICE...1818...(nil)...91 pax...45%
MALTA...2300...(2310)...153 pax...81%
AMSTERDAM...32237...(33866)...86 pax...75%
FARO...5135...(5758)...160 pax...82%
Funchal...1289...(nil)...129 pax...63%
ALICANTE...10579...(13332)...176 pax...87%
BARCELONA...4389...(nil)...129 pax...68%
GIRONA...nil...(1143)...
MALAGA...9753...(9652)...155 pax...77%
PALMA...2501...(0)...137 pax...72%
ARRECIFE...5225...(7370)...154 pax...77%
FUERTEVENTURA...2587...(3096)...162 pax...79%
LAS PALMAS...3105...(4678)...155 pax...78%
TENERIFE...11941...(13545)...171 pax...82%
STOCKHOLM ARN....1197....(NIL)...60 pax...50%
GENEVA......9468....(11496).....141 PAX......89%
ZURICH...9468...(11496)...71 pax...67%
ISTANBUL...6413...(4547)...103 pax...65% (based on 155 seats for the A320/738) - 2012 - 103 pax 65% load factor!
PRAGUE...nil pax...(3104)...
BUDAPEST...859...(nil)...143 pax...77%
KAUNAS...NIL...(2542)
BYDGOSZCZ...4635...(3898)...155 Pax..82%
GDANSK/NIL...(2653)...
KATOWICE...2903...(2453)...145 pax...77%
KRAKOW.....2764.....(NIL)...142 PAX...75%
RZESNOW...4144...(2628)...148 pax...78%
BRATISLAVA...3217...(3661)...161 pax...85%
ASHKHABAD...4654...(5084)...120 pax...67%
DUBAI..39446...(42834)...318 pax...78% -
ISLAMABAD...7345...(7794)...204 pax...55%
NEWARK...6379...(6376)...129 pax...75%
Pete
