PPRuNe Forums


Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th May 2017, 17:24   #121 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 856
button push ignored

i think you have missed out the bit where LH collapses and Aeroflot take over Czech LOT Wizz Tarom and the US 3 divest BA and AF and 20 years later retrench back to the states
pax britanica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2017, 17:39   #122 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 3,567
Where is China Airlines in all of this? Don't the Chinese have all the dosh?
RAT 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2017, 18:57   #123 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Off the map
Posts: 743
China has been invaded by the Fat Wun and his glorious army.
Turned out that he was an ally of Trump all along.
DirtyProp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2017, 19:31   #124 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by HH6702 View Post
Personally I think that all the low cost carriers Ryanair, EasyJet and vueling will all base extra aircraft in Italy ASAP so that when AZ does go there is others already waiting to carry there pax.

Is there many routes that are not currently serve by other airlines or does AZ have competition on most routes
Ryanair already carrys more passengers in Italian market than Alitalia and has for last 3-4 years.
racedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2017, 23:00   #125 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,502
So expect Ryanair to turn up the pressure on the market
HH6702 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2017, 14:18   #126 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Still looking
Posts: 86
Not so sure FR has the pilots to up their flying programme much. From what I hear it's a bit tight.
skyloone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2017, 19:21   #127 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 81
Is being profitable now subversive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by button push ignored View Post
.......Leaving a very week British Airways standing alone and a very subversive Aer Lingus playing both sides.
subversive
səbˈvəːsɪv/
adjective

seeking or intended to subvert an established system or institution.
"subversive literature"
synonyms: disruptive, troublemaking, inflammatory, insurgent, insurrectionary, insurrectionist, rabble-rousing; More
noun

Please educate me, I don't bruise easily.
Maxfli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2017, 20:47   #128 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxfli View Post
subversive
səbˈvəːsɪv/
adjective

seeking or intended to subvert an established system or institution.
"subversive literature"
synonyms: disruptive, troublemaking, inflammatory, insurgent, insurrectionary, insurrectionist, rabble-rousing; More
noun

Please educate me, I don't bruise easily.
Just someone feeling they could post a WW2 based post using airlines........ rather crass.

As for Aer Lingus (Ireland) being subversive................. all those Allied Pilots who landed and were handed back across the border may have a slightly different viewpoint.

General Eisenhower in delaying D-Day by a day by getting weather reports was kind of grateful that Irish Met Service happily fed him the info he needed.
racedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2017, 20:50   #129 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyloone View Post
Not so sure FR has the pilots to up their flying programme much. From what I hear it's a bit tight.
Wet leasing aircraft in which previously did the route for Alitalia is a likely option. After all flight crew just made unemployed may like that option.
racedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2017, 22:54   #130 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,860
Quote:
Quote:
I think 5 big players is a good number to maintain competition and wouldn't be too worried if IAG (for example) ended up owning all the EU based airlines in the One World alliance.
Well, i don't think they have any interest whatsoever into owning airberlin, which is after all still a oneworld member, even though they fly a third of their aircraft for Austrian and Eurowings.
Maybe thinking of AY?



Quote:
Lufthansa will first annex Austrian Airlines and then parts of CSA.
But when they take over LOT, things will really came unglued.
They will swiftly take over Lux Air and Sabena.
KLM will soon be swallowed up.
Air France will try to fight off a hostile take over, but will soon fall and be split into two airlines Air France and Air Inter.

Leaving a very week British Airways standing alone and a very subversive Aer Lingus playing both sides.
Meanwhile Alitalia and Iberia will form their own version on Lufthansa.
Swiss Air and SAS will declare neutrality.
With a no compete clause between Aeroflot and Lufthansa that will amount to nothing.
Things will be stale mate for a while.

At this point Pan-Am and TWA will bail out BEA and BOAC but they will also have permanent crew bases in the UK.

After a bidding war for Air Malta and an alliance between Egypt Air and Libyan Arab who will compete against Tunis Air, Air Algiers and Royal Air Maroc.

Slowly Pan-Am and TWA and BEA/BOAC now partnered with Air Canada with help from Qantas and Air New Zealand will gain ground against Lufthansa.
First with Air France and then Sabena and KLM. And then finally Lufthansa it's self.
But the main threat will be with a stronger Aeroflot who have no intention of giving up their control of Tarom, CSA, LOT, Balkan, Interflug, or JAT.

Like the American soap opera "As the Prop Turns", "Like Sands thru an Hour Glass, So are the Days of Our Lives".

Quote:
button push ignored

i think you have missed out the bit where LH collapses and Aeroflot take over Czech LOT Wizz Tarom and the US 3 divest BA and AF and 20 years later retrench back to the states

Quote:
China has been invaded by the Fat Wun and his glorious army.
Turned out that he was an ally of Trump all along.

Love it!

What are you fine people smoking?

Can I have some?
Fairdealfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2017, 10:33   #131 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,147
Perhaps unsurprising but IAG and AF-KL have both ruled themselve out from getting involved with any attempt to save Alitalia. Lufthansa and Norwegian ruled themselves out a while ago. Easyjet are actively interested in opportunities post Alitalia collapse. The Italian Govt had ruled out a full-scale bailout

I suppose there is still the longshot of HNA but options right now seems meagre

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 17th May 2017 at 11:08.
davidjohnson6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2017, 22:34   #132 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by button push ignored View Post
Watch the movie 'The Brylcreem Boys', about Allied and Axis pilots interned at Curragh Camp in County Kildare.
If they escaped back to Northern Ireland, they were promptly returned, not wishing to upset a neutral country.
As has been shown and posted on this forum before they were returned because they were allowed a lot of liberty and freedom of movement, if people abused that then ALL Airmen would be locked up under the exact same conditions.

As the war continued and closer to D-Day the Allied Airman were shipped across the border.

Quote:
As for subversive comment, that would belong to certain group that refuelled German U-Boats.
As a student of history particularly WW2 and its impact on UK and Ireland I am always by this idiotic comment.

Irish Free State had little if any fuel, cars were pretty much banned with members of the Govt cycling everywhere.

The idea that somehow they had boats refuelling U Boats is laughable. The requirement for a U Boat for full replenishment is in excess of 100 tons of fuel which is one hell of a lot of fuel. Even half that requires a sizeable ship to do so.

1 Tonne of Diesel equals 7 1/2 barrels of Oil, one barrel weighs 300 pounds so even assumming there were supplying 50 tonnes it would be 425 barrels. Now given the small size of Irish ports during WW2 the idea that someone could load 425 barrels of fuel onto a ship with nobody noticing is laughable.

Nobody is able to explain how so much fuel in barrels just happen to appear at a port, there were no trucks, even in UK that could possibly carry that much fuel hence multiple trucks would be required.

UK has spies in Ireland, quite a few were well known apparently to Irish Garda even John Betjeman was in British Embassy working as a spy plus Admiralty had a number of vans that sat out on headlands using triangulation to intercept U Boat signals and positions.

Strange that having read so many admiralty papers of WW2 they don't refer to it at all.
racedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2017, 23:15   #133 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,147
The topic of this thread is Alitalia.
davidjohnson6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2017, 22:08   #134 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: eire
Posts: 135
The vultures are gathering in the trees above.
waffler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2017, 22:32   #135 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,147
New routes for Alitalia !

Alitalia will launch new long haul routes to Los Angeles, Delhi and the Maldives. I had imagined that passengers would be cautious (ie lousy ticket sales) about paying funds many months ahead for a product that may very well not materialise or cause them to be stranded in a city far from home but perhaps I am just a bit negative

I used to think that airlines in trouble would typically cut out any new high risk launches and focus on getting the existing business stabilised but maybe I'm missing something here...
davidjohnson6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 05:34   #136 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AMM & BHX
Posts: 1,850
UK customers could always pay by credit card (if the fares are over 100) and get their money back it it goes to the wall.
crewmeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 06:10   #137 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 651
There seems to be no penalty for destroying yields using other people's money in this case those owed money by Alitalia and the italian state. Air Berlin appears to have been doing the same thing, losing millions a day while selling seats at dumping prices. The employees of other airlines are also losing out, as lower ticket prices directly affect the financial health of their own companies.
lederhosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 09:26   #138 (permalink)
840
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,252
A decade ago, I needed to fly from Amsterdam to Rome and opted for KLM purely because I feared Alitalia was bout to go out of business.

This is the longest goodbye in history.
840 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 20:17   #139 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by 840 View Post
A decade ago, I needed to fly from Amsterdam to Rome and opted for KLM purely because I feared Alitalia was bout to go out of business.

This is the longest goodbye in history.
Nope Arsene Wengers long goodbye is longer
racedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 19:54   #140 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 3,567
Air Berlin appears to have been doing the same thing, losing millions a day while selling seats at dumping prices. The employees of other airlines are also losing out, as lower ticket prices directly affect the financial health of their own companies.

In early 80's I was in the UK charter airline business. Laker had screwed it self over buying too many Airbuses. It tried to survive by creating cash flow and dumping seats on the charter market. Competitors followed suit. Laker went bust anyway and we were penalised with lower T's & C's. Hindsight is wonderful. We should not have dropped prices & standards.
Ah. Look what LoCo's have done to the traditional industry. Yes; they have broken the cartel of prices, but T's & C's have also suffered, badly. However, there major majors seem to have kept acceptable standards for pax, maintained reasonable T's & C's and still make handsome profits. It takes team work. Unfortunately in some LoCo's that is lacking and the balance of power is one sided. It just takes common sense team work for a common goal and less greed on both sides.
RAT 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 18:40.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1