LIVERPOOL-3
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OK..Point taken.
However there is only so much pax to go round at the moment..The time IMO to expand would be when people can afford tickets.
This will be subject to contact though, and there will come a time again for EAZY to sight on the dotted line.
You might be right..however in a climate of people worrying about job, a route race would not happen IMO..The last thing any airport needs is a route war.
Where did the news that LS was making Liverpool a base come from?..dammed if I can find a link.
If Jet2 do come to Liverpool, they are a good airline, and know how to put bums on seats.
However there is only so much pax to go round at the moment..The time IMO to expand would be when people can afford tickets.
easyJet can't pull out of Liverpool, and their based aircraft can't fall below 7.
I don't think that Jet2 coming into Liverpool would have a negative effect, I think it would be more likely to kickstart a "route race" with the others (especially Ryanair and probably easyJet)
Where did the news that LS was making Liverpool a base come from?..dammed if I can find a link.
If Jet2 do come to Liverpool, they are a good airline, and know how to put bums on seats.
Earnest, despite some informed people saying the market has been studied in depth by Jet2 quite recently, most of it is probably based on little more than wishful thinking from some quarters.
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For what it's worth I think Jet2 would have announced by now, if they are opening a base at Liverpool.
It's now September and seats have been on sale now for 2013 in their other NW bases at MAN and BLK.
If LS is coming to Liverpool, they had better get a move on, as EAZY and FR have had seats on sale for a while.
IF 160to4DME is right and there are clauses to protect EAZY and FR (Which makes sense), then I can's see FR coming at a disadvantage. I could very well be wrong though, just my mind ticking.
Over WIZZ - I have seen nothing on the net or online press, that they are leaving Liverpool.
It's now September and seats have been on sale now for 2013 in their other NW bases at MAN and BLK.
If LS is coming to Liverpool, they had better get a move on, as EAZY and FR have had seats on sale for a while.
IF 160to4DME is right and there are clauses to protect EAZY and FR (Which makes sense), then I can's see FR coming at a disadvantage. I could very well be wrong though, just my mind ticking.
Over WIZZ - I have seen nothing on the net or online press, that they are leaving Liverpool.
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The press have already started preparing the public for the worst, all in preparation for an imminent Wizz announcement....
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It looks as if it did operate last winter so therefore a net reduction of 2 flights a week for Liverpool, Doncaster appears to continue at present but I`m sure I have
read that they are dropping there as well
Ian
read that they are dropping there as well
Ian
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Emailed Wizz asking for flights From Manchester the reply was we do not fly from Manchester we do how ever fly from Liverpool to six destinations. so looks like new routes to be added
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The numpties on that new LPL forum are going apoplectic over the discussion on here. 
The facts are, to the best of my knowledge, as 160to4 stated. Some pillock over there reckons the agreement only applies to Bodrum and Nice, though how they come to that conclusion is beyond me.
Not all is doom and gloom at LPL, though there is a refreshing sense of reality on here at last; long may it continue!
Doesn't that mean RYR are not restricted by the agreement, hence they compete freely on some of EZY's routes? (Rhetorical question)
Jet2, as a complete newcomer however, would be subject to whatever conditions are laid down in the agreement to protect EZY's routes...including some routes considered home territory to Jet2: FAO, FUE, IBZ, ACE, AGP, MAH, NCE, RHO etc.
Ding, ding; we have a winner ! Ernest, you have hit the nail on the head. 
It would lead to one of them upping sticks and leaving. But that was the idea of part of this mystical agreement; to protect the incumbent resident and prevent a route war...only it's backfired.
Jet2 is ideal LPL material, but for some to expect them to set up and launch only unexplored and untried routes without the security of known stable and successful rotations as well are, I suspect, expecting too much, just as was LJLA.
The next few weeks and months will reveal whether some leverage or wiggle room has been found.
Last one I'm aware of (pre summer '12) was for diversion facilities, nothing more. Monarch are not coming to LPL for any other reason.
EZY7117LPL, you claim that
yet you state with authority that EZY can't pull out from LPL nor can they reduce below 7 frames. You also use RYR to "prove" your argument that there is no protection, but RYR were already serving LPL, so are not therefore "new entrants."
All the rest of your argument is personal opinion and supposition. Look forward to you coming back to the discussion when you have some hard facts for us all to discuss.
The facts are, to the best of my knowledge, as 160to4 stated. Some pillock over there reckons the agreement only applies to Bodrum and Nice, though how they come to that conclusion is beyond me.
Not all is doom and gloom at LPL, though there is a refreshing sense of reality on here at last; long may it continue!
If clauses are in place to protect an incumbent's routes from a newcomer, there isn't much scope for expansion at LPL other than from RYR AND EZY.
Jet2, as a complete newcomer however, would be subject to whatever conditions are laid down in the agreement to protect EZY's routes...including some routes considered home territory to Jet2: FAO, FUE, IBZ, ACE, AGP, MAH, NCE, RHO etc.
in a climate of people worrying about job, a route race would not happen IMO..The last thing any airport needs is a route war.
It would lead to one of them upping sticks and leaving. But that was the idea of part of this mystical agreement; to protect the incumbent resident and prevent a route war...only it's backfired.
Jet2 is ideal LPL material, but for some to expect them to set up and launch only unexplored and untried routes without the security of known stable and successful rotations as well are, I suspect, expecting too much, just as was LJLA.
The next few weeks and months will reveal whether some leverage or wiggle room has been found.
Spotty M managment have visited a number of times recently
EZY7117LPL, you claim that
I very much doubt that anyone except those who need to know will know much about the contract between easyJet and LPL
All the rest of your argument is personal opinion and supposition. Look forward to you coming back to the discussion when you have some hard facts for us all to discuss.
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It might have been mentioned already but EZY will be adding some new routes for next summer. Expect a couple of the longer type routes.
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TSR2
The rumour re Jet 2 was correct but A/C were not to be based Liverpool, flying W pattern Las Palmes etc as I understood, though this may have changed. They hinted that they may look again in 2013 for flights 2014. Therefore not Polish outfit, though had heard that Wizz maybe leaving LPL, but that has been posted elsewhere in this forum, however they have signed new contract to stay at LPL and DSA as far as I am aware.
Pug
The costs and relationship issues at Man with existing users re the arrival of LOCO was based on conversations with reps of the carriers involved who are long standing Man users.
As I said in earlier posts I hope LPL survives (it should do) but passenger numbers based on A/C using it in coming year may will cause a further drop in passenger numbers, which I do not think will go down well in Vancouver. Only thing to do is cut costs but difficult to see where this could be done (Short of drastic steps and selling assets) as staff numbers do not seem excessive when I have passed through. Will have to see what happens.
The rumour re Jet 2 was correct but A/C were not to be based Liverpool, flying W pattern Las Palmes etc as I understood, though this may have changed. They hinted that they may look again in 2013 for flights 2014. Therefore not Polish outfit, though had heard that Wizz maybe leaving LPL, but that has been posted elsewhere in this forum, however they have signed new contract to stay at LPL and DSA as far as I am aware.
Pug
The costs and relationship issues at Man with existing users re the arrival of LOCO was based on conversations with reps of the carriers involved who are long standing Man users.
As I said in earlier posts I hope LPL survives (it should do) but passenger numbers based on A/C using it in coming year may will cause a further drop in passenger numbers, which I do not think will go down well in Vancouver. Only thing to do is cut costs but difficult to see where this could be done (Short of drastic steps and selling assets) as staff numbers do not seem excessive when I have passed through. Will have to see what happens.
Last edited by Mr Mac; 5th Sep 2012 at 16:39.
Let's face it, it's going to survive. LPL might have lost a LOT of pax this year, but even with the huge loss, there's still loads of airports that would do anything to attract even what LPL gets through the doors this year (probably looking at the 4.5m mark)...
Over the last few years it has proven that given the routes, it can comfortably attract 5m pax+ year on year.
Its hardly Doncaster or Durham is it...
Over the last few years it has proven that given the routes, it can comfortably attract 5m pax+ year on year.
Its hardly Doncaster or Durham is it...
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Its not Doncaster or Durham, but looking at planes based and or rotating and the passenger figure could be as low as 4m at LPL which is a figure that the Canadians did not for see when they purchased these airports I would guess. "May you live in intresting times" - old Chinese curse coming true.
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Mr Mac
The Canadians are not fools..They know that the UK in particular and Europe in general is in a seemingly long lasting depression.
Mr Mac - There will be an upturn, and the Canadians know it.
Mr Mac - I doubt yet that the time has come for selling assets, Liverpool could survive with less pax as long as this economic depression lasts.
Mr Mac - There are many Chinese proverbs and you say "curse". well they are all a load of rubbish as the pot army coming to life.
Liverpool is in a downturn at the moment, like many other airports/airlines and businesses in general..
Mr Mac - There will be an upturn, and the Canadians know it.
Mr Mac - I doubt yet that the time has come for selling assets, Liverpool could survive with less pax as long as this economic depression lasts.
Mr Mac - There are many Chinese proverbs and you say "curse". well they are all a load of rubbish as the pot army coming to life.
Liverpool is in a downturn at the moment, like many other airports/airlines and businesses in general..
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The Canadians or at leat the ones I have done business with are not "fools", but can be somtimes not too worldly wise. Would suggest that dealing with Peel may have come as a bit of an eye opener. It would be intresting to know what level of due dilagence they took before getting into bed with Peel.
I hope there is an up turn soon, as a business owner with 180 salaries and lives to consider. However I do not see any signe,s in my industry currently. Spend most of my time outsourcing work all over the globe to keep prices down and our wonderful banks happy.
Sale of parts of Peel airports already going through, Durham sold what odds do you give on DSA - 6-8 months tops ?. LPL makes money but is I beleive the only part of the group that does, therefore would be last to be disposed of if Canadians retreat back across the pond.
Have done quite a bit of time in China over the years, and think many of their proverbs have a grain of truth in them, but everyone is allowed a point of view.
Lets observe and see what happens
I hope there is an up turn soon, as a business owner with 180 salaries and lives to consider. However I do not see any signe,s in my industry currently. Spend most of my time outsourcing work all over the globe to keep prices down and our wonderful banks happy.
Sale of parts of Peel airports already going through, Durham sold what odds do you give on DSA - 6-8 months tops ?. LPL makes money but is I beleive the only part of the group that does, therefore would be last to be disposed of if Canadians retreat back across the pond.
Have done quite a bit of time in China over the years, and think many of their proverbs have a grain of truth in them, but everyone is allowed a point of view.
Lets observe and see what happens
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I would think that some of the experienced gained with airports in its network having low passenger levels will stand them in good stead.
Our Network | Vantage
Our Network | Vantage
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Based on what I can tell from the summer 2013 schedule for EasyJet, they will base 7 aircraft, down from 8 this summer. There's a few early last arrivals so would imagine the high peak only summer routes like Ibiza will have there usual 8pm departures. They have announced though that they plan to increase in Manchester for 2013. Not looking great for Liverpool at the moment. We'll have to see what Ryanair deilvers, but they are more interested in Manchester it would seem at the moment as well!
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Ryanair Expansion
Ryanair Announces 1 Million Pax Growth In 2013 In North West
Ryanair, Europe’s only ultra-low cost airline, today (31 Oct) announced 1m passenger growth at 3 North West airports in 2013, adding 1m new passengers and a total of 9 new routes at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports, which will sustain up to 1,000 new jobs*.
Manchester Summer 2013:
· 34 routes, 5 new routes – Corfu, Krakow, Lanzarote, Paphos & Trapani
· 360,000 new passengers (over 2.4m pax)
· 360 new jobs, over 2,400 jobs in total
· 1 new aircraft
Liverpool Summer 2013:
· 39 routes, 2 new routes – Lublin & Zadar
· Over 180,000 new passengers (over 2.1m pax)
· 180 new jobs, over 2,100 jobs in total
East Midlands Summer 2013:
· 38 routes, 2 new routes – Marseille & Menorca (Growth on 17 other routes)
· 460,000 new passengers (over 2.3m pax)
· 460 new jobs, over 2,300 jobs in total
· 1 new aircraft
To celebrate 1m passenger growth in 2013 and the launch of its Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands 2013 summer schedules, Ryanair is launching a seat sale with 100,000 seats across its European network at prices starting from just £15.99 for travel on Mon, Tues, Wed and Thur in November and December, which are available for booking until midnight Thur (1 Nov).
Ryanair’s 9 new summer routes from Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands will be available for booking on www.ryanair.com tomorrow.
In Manchester today, Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary said:
“Ryanair today celebrates 1m passenger growth at three North West airports, with 9 new routes, which will sustain 1,000 new jobs at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports.
Our 34 Manchester routes (including 5 new to Corfu, Krakow, Lanzarote , Paphos and Trapani), 39 Liverpool routes (including 2 new to Lublin and Zadar) and 38 East Midlands routes (including 2 new to Marseille and Menorca) will deliver almost 7m passengers and sustain over 7,000 jobs at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports in 2013.”
* ACI confirms up to 1,000 ‘on-site’ jobs per 1m passengers
1 MILLION NEW PASSENGERS & 1,000 NEW JOBS
Ryanair, Europe’s only ultra-low cost airline, today (31 Oct) announced 1m passenger growth at 3 North West airports in 2013, adding 1m new passengers and a total of 9 new routes at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports, which will sustain up to 1,000 new jobs*.
Manchester Summer 2013:
· 34 routes, 5 new routes – Corfu, Krakow, Lanzarote, Paphos & Trapani
· 360,000 new passengers (over 2.4m pax)
· 360 new jobs, over 2,400 jobs in total
· 1 new aircraft
Liverpool Summer 2013:
· 39 routes, 2 new routes – Lublin & Zadar
· Over 180,000 new passengers (over 2.1m pax)
· 180 new jobs, over 2,100 jobs in total
East Midlands Summer 2013:
· 38 routes, 2 new routes – Marseille & Menorca (Growth on 17 other routes)
· 460,000 new passengers (over 2.3m pax)
· 460 new jobs, over 2,300 jobs in total
· 1 new aircraft
To celebrate 1m passenger growth in 2013 and the launch of its Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands 2013 summer schedules, Ryanair is launching a seat sale with 100,000 seats across its European network at prices starting from just £15.99 for travel on Mon, Tues, Wed and Thur in November and December, which are available for booking until midnight Thur (1 Nov).
Ryanair’s 9 new summer routes from Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands will be available for booking on www.ryanair.com tomorrow.
In Manchester today, Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary said:
“Ryanair today celebrates 1m passenger growth at three North West airports, with 9 new routes, which will sustain 1,000 new jobs at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports.
Our 34 Manchester routes (including 5 new to Corfu, Krakow, Lanzarote , Paphos and Trapani), 39 Liverpool routes (including 2 new to Lublin and Zadar) and 38 East Midlands routes (including 2 new to Marseille and Menorca) will deliver almost 7m passengers and sustain over 7,000 jobs at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports in 2013.”
* ACI confirms up to 1,000 ‘on-site’ jobs per 1m passengers
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FRatSTN
Well FR did come good for LJLA - So easy to talk an airport down.
Not looking great for Liverpool at the moment. We'll have to see what Ryanair deilvers, but they are more interested in Manchester it would seem at the moment as well!