LIVERPOOL-3
From what I have heard, legacy and low cost are co-existing better than ever anticipated. Sure, in sure low cost has taken pax away from legacy but whilst the loco's grow their market at MAN, the legacy carriers are growing their feed.
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Total international traffic in the last 3 months at LPL & MAN combined is down 2.1% vs 2011. Rest of the UK is down 0.2%.
Until the economy improves and / or APD is lowered for regional airports, there's not much hope of traffic levels in and out of the North West growing massively.
Instead weaker operators will go (bmi baby) or downsize (Thomas Cook) and stronger carriers will use their leverage to shift capacity to which ever airport gives them the best deal or where they can exert pressure on weaker operators.
Until the economy improves and / or APD is lowered for regional airports, there's not much hope of traffic levels in and out of the North West growing massively.
Instead weaker operators will go (bmi baby) or downsize (Thomas Cook) and stronger carriers will use their leverage to shift capacity to which ever airport gives them the best deal or where they can exert pressure on weaker operators.
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No doubt about it. Yes, there has been a decline in passengers recently but they will bounce back I'm sure.
When people have more money in there pockets and are sure of their jobs..There will be a bounce once people are sure of their jobs, and have more cash to spend on flight..
I found Liverpool good to use..It did not happen to me, but some complain about queues at security..Liverpool may want to address that, as queues can be annoying.
Like the fast bag drop at BLK, that is now the slow bag drop - because lots more use that, than check in at the airport.
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i used liverpool quite frequently,but have started to use east midlands for ryanair flights.about the same travelling time,but find east midlands better for parking and a much better experience in the terminal.it's tough for the regional airports which are so dependant on lo cost operators as the customers,like me,will switch to where we get the best deal and experience.
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but find east midlands better for parking
However both Manchester and Liverpool are not as good parking, but for me Liverpool gets the nod over Man, simply because the terminal is easy to use..More important using jet2 at MAN T1..I find flying back into MAN early morning a nightmare..Flying out of MAN is easy enough..twice I have had long walks after landing at MAN in the wee hours
Liverpool is easy, inbound and outbound..
Last edited by Ernest Lanc's; 31st Aug 2012 at 22:33.
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I was in Chester today and I saw some aircraft coming in, but one of them strangely enough was a Transavia. Does anyone know why it was there cause I do know Transavia dont fly to Liverpool. Believe it was from Amsterdam.
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TSR2
Spotty M managment have visited a number of times recently as well as another charter operator not to mention the Jet 2 routes which were going to occur but got pulled. I do beleive Liverpool will survive but cost base will be critical and Canadians parent does not seem to be intrested (Vancouver has also got problems apparantly). This deal was put together approx 2008 and the world has changed since then as we all know, so do the Canadians still have the appetite for it going forward.
Spotty M managment have visited a number of times recently as well as another charter operator not to mention the Jet 2 routes which were going to occur but got pulled. I do beleive Liverpool will survive but cost base will be critical and Canadians parent does not seem to be intrested (Vancouver has also got problems apparantly). This deal was put together approx 2008 and the world has changed since then as we all know, so do the Canadians still have the appetite for it going forward.
Mr Mac, are you sure it wasn't OLT Express who pulled away last minute and not Jet2? I'm pretty sure Jet2 historically announce new bases early-mid September..
As for Spotty M, as I posted earlier, according to members of FoLa Vantage have highlighted that LBA and MAG are 'paying airlines to fly from them, and are cynical of the longevity of such a setup'.. I would suggest that with Monarch having announced a base at LBA then that may have been one of those airlines directly refered to.
I dont believe for a minute that LBA or MAN would pay an airline to fly from them, with MAN supposidly having a policy of no less than £3 per passenger levied on the airlines. What it may be is favourable subsidies for marketing and such, something I understand is one of the most expensive aspects of airlines launching new routes.
With Peel Holdings retaining ownership of much of the land at DSA (same at LPL?) then I suppose there is little scope for alternative revenue sources available to Peel Airports. Therefore the days of the 'Peel Deal' over?
As for Spotty M, as I posted earlier, according to members of FoLa Vantage have highlighted that LBA and MAG are 'paying airlines to fly from them, and are cynical of the longevity of such a setup'.. I would suggest that with Monarch having announced a base at LBA then that may have been one of those airlines directly refered to.
I dont believe for a minute that LBA or MAN would pay an airline to fly from them, with MAN supposidly having a policy of no less than £3 per passenger levied on the airlines. What it may be is favourable subsidies for marketing and such, something I understand is one of the most expensive aspects of airlines launching new routes.
With Peel Holdings retaining ownership of much of the land at DSA (same at LPL?) then I suppose there is little scope for alternative revenue sources available to Peel Airports. Therefore the days of the 'Peel Deal' over?
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Mr Mac, are you sure it wasn't OLT Express who pulled away last minute and not Jet2? I'm pretty sure Jet2 historically announce new bases early-mid September..
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Ernest, LJLA laid down impossible conditions to Jet2 to protect the EasyJet agreement and their routes.
Ironically, the "agreement" between LJLA and EasyJet seems to have been the one thing that got in the way of LJLA's only real hope of expansion; Jet2.
One has to wonder whether the Vancouver boys were fully appraised of all contractual agreements before they signed on the dotted line, though being Peel, nothing would surprise me.
A few people have alot of egg on their faces currently, and there's worse to come...
Ironically, the "agreement" between LJLA and EasyJet seems to have been the one thing that got in the way of LJLA's only real hope of expansion; Jet2.
One has to wonder whether the Vancouver boys were fully appraised of all contractual agreements before they signed on the dotted line, though being Peel, nothing would surprise me.
A few people have alot of egg on their faces currently, and there's worse to come...
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The press have already started preparing the public for the worst, all in preparation for an imminent Wizz announcement....
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If clauses are in place to protect an incumbent's routes from a newcomer, there isn't much scope for expansion at LPL other than from RYR AND EZY.
LS would tread on EAZY's toes, they did it with Monarch with the AGP route in 2006.
It's a difficult one this 160to4DME ..LS has expanded at BLK from 2013 with Dalaman, Ibiza and Lanzarote..
I would be a bit worried at the moment is Easy based an a/c at BLK, in case they flew some of the same sunshine routes as LS.
I take your point though, Liverpool are reliant on just EAZY and FR..Not room for other airlines if they are being protected.
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Lets clear a few things up:
1. The press conference thing in July was NOT Jet2, it was OLT express and was cancelled because of their own financial difficulties.
2. I very much doubt that anyone except those who need to know will know much about the contract between easyJet and LPL, I also doubt that easyJet get protection on routes because Ryanair also serve a large amount of their routes.
3. easyJet can't pull out of Liverpool, and their based aircraft can't fall below 7.
4. Wizz into Manchester is just a rumour, I doubt they would do it at LPL's expense, the market is huge.
I don't think that Jet2 coming into Liverpool would have a negative effect, I think it would be more likely to kickstart a "route race" with the others (especially Ryanair and probably easyJet) expanding to get a bigger slice of the cake.
I'm pretty sure Jet2 will announce Liverpool soon. As someone else said Jet2 don't announce bases in July! We will have to wait and see...
1. The press conference thing in July was NOT Jet2, it was OLT express and was cancelled because of their own financial difficulties.
2. I very much doubt that anyone except those who need to know will know much about the contract between easyJet and LPL, I also doubt that easyJet get protection on routes because Ryanair also serve a large amount of their routes.
3. easyJet can't pull out of Liverpool, and their based aircraft can't fall below 7.
4. Wizz into Manchester is just a rumour, I doubt they would do it at LPL's expense, the market is huge.
I don't think that Jet2 coming into Liverpool would have a negative effect, I think it would be more likely to kickstart a "route race" with the others (especially Ryanair and probably easyJet) expanding to get a bigger slice of the cake.
I'm pretty sure Jet2 will announce Liverpool soon. As someone else said Jet2 don't announce bases in July! We will have to wait and see...
EZYLPL dont count your chickens. Just see what happens. The reason 16to4DME offered re. jet2 sounds plausible.
I think your sources of information are questionable if they are who I think they are.
I think your sources of information are questionable if they are who I think they are.
Last edited by pug; 3rd Sep 2012 at 19:51.