BOURNEMOUTH - 3
I think you'll find that having been around in Bournemouth for over 100 years, long before the airport even existed, that the Bournemouth Daily Echo Team certainly know alot more about the airport than Manchester Airport Group - don't you think? The Echo reporters will know all about the general lack of progress at the airport going back to the days of Dan Air in the 1970s when it was a thriving "local" providing many flights to the Channel Islands and the Dan Air Link City service that connected the airport with the rest of the UK.
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Regardless of the Daily Echo report the other day, what is crystal clear is that Bournemouth needs an airline that is willing to fly schedules and support the airport all year round. This nonsense with Ryanair surely can't be allowed to continue as it's costing the airport very dearly!
With around 600,000 passengers now flying from the airport, a regular service by a carrier that is prepared to actually base two 737s / A320s is the way forward. Not a charter airline but a scheduled carrier flying to a dozen or so routes. In the summer, twice a day to the Med, with maybe a night flight over the busy weekends and in the winter ski destinations as well as the Canaries which would be year round. The current domestic routes are about as good as it's going to get! Let's not forget that many airlines have tried and failed again and again and again over the years, and of course you only need to drive for 30 minutes to Southampton for those services.
For this to happen MAG must get rid of Ryanair and break this very unsatisfactory relationship. Five months without a service really is taking the mickey! The biggest problem of all appears to be that while Ryanair are there other carriers won't even consider coming to Bournemouth!
If Bath Travel could be persuaded to come back and tie up with a company such as Monarch for example and persuade them to base two A320s then I see no reason at all why this shouldn't be a long term happy relationship. It's about time that normal service was resumed! Who are actually promoting Bournemouth? A team in Manchester or are MAG based in Bournemouth supporting the local community? Well other than Ryanair, it hasn't gone too well has it! Ask them about Palmair?
Ryanair have got to go along with that extremely stupid drop off / pick up fee!
With around 600,000 passengers now flying from the airport, a regular service by a carrier that is prepared to actually base two 737s / A320s is the way forward. Not a charter airline but a scheduled carrier flying to a dozen or so routes. In the summer, twice a day to the Med, with maybe a night flight over the busy weekends and in the winter ski destinations as well as the Canaries which would be year round. The current domestic routes are about as good as it's going to get! Let's not forget that many airlines have tried and failed again and again and again over the years, and of course you only need to drive for 30 minutes to Southampton for those services.
For this to happen MAG must get rid of Ryanair and break this very unsatisfactory relationship. Five months without a service really is taking the mickey! The biggest problem of all appears to be that while Ryanair are there other carriers won't even consider coming to Bournemouth!
If Bath Travel could be persuaded to come back and tie up with a company such as Monarch for example and persuade them to base two A320s then I see no reason at all why this shouldn't be a long term happy relationship. It's about time that normal service was resumed! Who are actually promoting Bournemouth? A team in Manchester or are MAG based in Bournemouth supporting the local community? Well other than Ryanair, it hasn't gone too well has it! Ask them about Palmair?
Ryanair have got to go along with that extremely stupid drop off / pick up fee!
Last edited by mrshubigbus; 6th Nov 2012 at 19:04.
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Could not have put it better !! well said and totally agree with everything in the above post
Its comming to a very disturbing and worrying end now , for 5 months the airport is pretty much a ghost town and 45 million invested is not a good return in any imagination
With the drop off fee upsetting pretty much everyone who see it as punishment for using the airport and supporting it , while the airport in return trying to make a bit of extra cash to cover for this winter debacle in any way they can while Ryanair hold the airport over a barrel
Its comming to a very disturbing and worrying end now , for 5 months the airport is pretty much a ghost town and 45 million invested is not a good return in any imagination
With the drop off fee upsetting pretty much everyone who see it as punishment for using the airport and supporting it , while the airport in return trying to make a bit of extra cash to cover for this winter debacle in any way they can while Ryanair hold the airport over a barrel
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Jet2
I think Jet2 would be ideal for BOH, they have really expanded over the last few years with many bases opened up and a move south would be a good move not only for Jet2 but also for BOH and with a fairly large fleet of boeing 737/757s, the routes they offer from other UK airports would be ideal for BOH.
Even under the current economic climate Jet2 seem to be doing quite well financially and there are a few of those ex BMIBaby Boeing 737-300s hanging around!
I know Jet2 intended to fly from BOH several years back but it never materialised, I think now is the time for them to consider BOH in there future plans!
If Easyjet were to expand from BOH I think they would have done so by now but that would be absolutely great news for BOH if they did, if Easyjet can make SEN work with STN fairly close why not BOH with SOU being close by, the possibilities are there regardless of the airports access, public transport to the airport and drop off charge, etc!
I guess that the BOH PR team will take the time off during Ryanair's absence from the airport, after all they do deserve a break!
Even under the current economic climate Jet2 seem to be doing quite well financially and there are a few of those ex BMIBaby Boeing 737-300s hanging around!
I know Jet2 intended to fly from BOH several years back but it never materialised, I think now is the time for them to consider BOH in there future plans!
If Easyjet were to expand from BOH I think they would have done so by now but that would be absolutely great news for BOH if they did, if Easyjet can make SEN work with STN fairly close why not BOH with SOU being close by, the possibilities are there regardless of the airports access, public transport to the airport and drop off charge, etc!
I guess that the BOH PR team will take the time off during Ryanair's absence from the airport, after all they do deserve a break!
I know Jet2 intended to fly from BOH several years back but it never materialised,
The Echo reporters will know all about the general lack of progress at the airport going back to the days of Dan Air in the 1970s when it was a thriving "local" providing many flights to the Channel Islands and the Dan Air Link City service that connected the airport with the rest of the UK.
Last edited by Groundloop; 7th Nov 2012 at 07:34.
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Now is definitely not the time for the marketing PR team to take a break! They need to be working overtime to bring in a scheduled carrier who will fly from the airport all year round!!! You can't spend 45 million on an airport then have virtually no passengers for 5 months!!!
I would definitely agree that Jet 2 are a possibility with 2 x 737-300s based at the airport. In fact either Jet 2 or Monarch working alongside Bath Travel would be a very workable way forward for the airport in my view. But, there is still one major stumbling block which makes this currently impossible!
R Y A N A I R!!! You can't have an airline hold an airport to ransom every year!
Somebody at MAG has got to make a big call and either sling O'Leary into touch or accept that in future he might continue to pull his routes for up to five months of the year. I couldn't run a business which is supposed to support the local community all year round with an airline that does this!
It might take a brave move by Bournemouth Council to buy the airport back from MAG who are not surprisingly more focused on Manchester, East Midlands and Stansted than a tiny regional airport in Bournemouth! FACT!
Those three airports generate 50 million passengers for MAG!
And on a final note - today - Wednesday 7th November there is one arrival - yes just O N E arrival into Bournemouth! A Thomson 737 at 2100. The multi million pound terminal will stand empty all day with hundreds of staff required to man the shops, security, customs, handling agents, cleaners, etc.
This can't go on all winter and every winter!
The council in Bournemouth need to stop focusing / investing in follies such as the IMAX / SURF REEF disasters and start concentrating on their real assets that support the whole community!
GROUNDLOOP - Jet 2 to Belfast isn't what we are talking about here is it!!!
I would definitely agree that Jet 2 are a possibility with 2 x 737-300s based at the airport. In fact either Jet 2 or Monarch working alongside Bath Travel would be a very workable way forward for the airport in my view. But, there is still one major stumbling block which makes this currently impossible!
R Y A N A I R!!! You can't have an airline hold an airport to ransom every year!
Somebody at MAG has got to make a big call and either sling O'Leary into touch or accept that in future he might continue to pull his routes for up to five months of the year. I couldn't run a business which is supposed to support the local community all year round with an airline that does this!
It might take a brave move by Bournemouth Council to buy the airport back from MAG who are not surprisingly more focused on Manchester, East Midlands and Stansted than a tiny regional airport in Bournemouth! FACT!
Those three airports generate 50 million passengers for MAG!
And on a final note - today - Wednesday 7th November there is one arrival - yes just O N E arrival into Bournemouth! A Thomson 737 at 2100. The multi million pound terminal will stand empty all day with hundreds of staff required to man the shops, security, customs, handling agents, cleaners, etc.
This can't go on all winter and every winter!
The council in Bournemouth need to stop focusing / investing in follies such as the IMAX / SURF REEF disasters and start concentrating on their real assets that support the whole community!
GROUNDLOOP - Jet 2 to Belfast isn't what we are talking about here is it!!!
Last edited by mrshubigbus; 7th Nov 2012 at 07:50.
I like the fact mrshubigbus assumes that MAG would spend £45 million on a new terminal and then not try to grow scheduled flights there. Or that there would be a queue of airlines beating a path to the door if Ryanair left.
Perhaps you should approach them with an offer to buy it?
Perhaps you should approach them with an offer to buy it?
Last edited by pug; 7th Nov 2012 at 08:35.
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I can only add that they didn't anticipate that Ryanair would pull out for five months. My understanding was that the money was only invested because Ryanair indicated that they would increase their presence at the airport. It was suggested at one point that they would base as many as five 737-800s at Bournemouth and all year round! That would explain the massive expansion of aircraft stands which are very rarely full of aircraft these days.
MAG made an investment decision which in this case seems to have been an expensive mistake so far!
Have I once suggested that there would be a "queue" of airlines waiting to come in if Ryanair left??? If you read my post, I suggested that an airline might be tempted to move in with two airframes if Ryanair weren't there. Palmair operated two 737s at their peak for example but simply couldn't maintain the operation in the face of huge pressure from RYR.
MAG made an investment decision which in this case seems to have been an expensive mistake so far!
Have I once suggested that there would be a "queue" of airlines waiting to come in if Ryanair left??? If you read my post, I suggested that an airline might be tempted to move in with two airframes if Ryanair weren't there. Palmair operated two 737s at their peak for example but simply couldn't maintain the operation in the face of huge pressure from RYR.
Last edited by mrshubigbus; 7th Nov 2012 at 09:38.
If you read my post, I suggested that an airline might be tempted to move in with two airframes if Ryanair weren't there.
TOM and FR both having a base at BOH is pretty good going for an airport of its size at the moment. If Ryanair find it more cost effective to stop for the winter, then does it bode well for these other airlines you believe would step in?
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Do you stop having holidays from November through to the end of March?
Nor do I. 200,000 potential passengers will now have to fly to places like the Canaries from Gatwick or Bristol, not forgetting all those potential ski destinations. I know there are long term issues with airlines basing themselves at Bmth and yes I agree that it is great to have Thomson based with a year round 737-800 service and Ryanair with a seven month service to many destinations. That doesn't mean success in this curent climate.
Just walk round the terminal today to see that for yourself.
What I would sadly admit to though, is that if MAG or any other potential owner can't do anything with Bournemouth airport in a climate where there are low cost airlines such as Ryanair flying 300 737s, Easyjet with 200 A319/320 etc, then I'm afraid that the airport have missed the boat completely. I for one don't ever see over one million passengers travelling through the airport again unless something major changes. The current investment was planned with three million passengers in mind!
Oh I love this thread - I should find something better to do with my spare time however, when I'm not flying my 320!
Nor do I. 200,000 potential passengers will now have to fly to places like the Canaries from Gatwick or Bristol, not forgetting all those potential ski destinations. I know there are long term issues with airlines basing themselves at Bmth and yes I agree that it is great to have Thomson based with a year round 737-800 service and Ryanair with a seven month service to many destinations. That doesn't mean success in this curent climate.
Just walk round the terminal today to see that for yourself.
What I would sadly admit to though, is that if MAG or any other potential owner can't do anything with Bournemouth airport in a climate where there are low cost airlines such as Ryanair flying 300 737s, Easyjet with 200 A319/320 etc, then I'm afraid that the airport have missed the boat completely. I for one don't ever see over one million passengers travelling through the airport again unless something major changes. The current investment was planned with three million passengers in mind!
Oh I love this thread - I should find something better to do with my spare time however, when I'm not flying my 320!
Last edited by mrshubigbus; 7th Nov 2012 at 09:51.
200,000 potential passengers will now have to fly to places like the Canaries from Gatwick or Bristol, not forgetting all those potential ski destinations.
Jet 2 to Belfast isn't what we are talking about here is it!!!
is that if MAG or any other potential owner can't do anything with Bournemouth airport in a climate where there are low cost airlines such as Ryanair flying 300 737s, Easyjet with 200 A319/320 etc, then I'm afraid that the airport have missed the boat completely.
I would suggest that the ball is very much in Ryanair's court. Why it would be a good business decision for BOH to try and push their biggest source of passengers out isnt clear, particularly as a replacement looks unlikely.
Last edited by pug; 7th Nov 2012 at 10:32.
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Listening to most travel agents both Thomson and Bath Travel over the last year based in the Dorset area , they are consistently sending thousands of customers up to Gatwick or Bristol to catch flights to the Canaries and mainland Spain during the past two winters now , most driving past the airport to get to another !
Its amazing that Thomson have not seen a gap yet to put on extra flights in the 4 / 5 month period to Tenerife / Alicante / Malaga for example to at least help with this loss and make a few pounds in the meantime . The utilisation of the based aircraft is shocking in the winter
Bath Travel commands huge respect from the local area and work quite closely now with Thomson in selling holidays from Bournemouth and still have to send many potential customers up the road as flights that do operate are full
Its very frustrating and bewildering sometimes that this is happening and even more with the Marketing department at the airport which i believe is now based at Manchester to cut costs .
All i ever have had back is a generic e mail saying they are in " Daily contact with potential airlines and tour companies "
Its amazing that Thomson have not seen a gap yet to put on extra flights in the 4 / 5 month period to Tenerife / Alicante / Malaga for example to at least help with this loss and make a few pounds in the meantime . The utilisation of the based aircraft is shocking in the winter
Bath Travel commands huge respect from the local area and work quite closely now with Thomson in selling holidays from Bournemouth and still have to send many potential customers up the road as flights that do operate are full
Its very frustrating and bewildering sometimes that this is happening and even more with the Marketing department at the airport which i believe is now based at Manchester to cut costs .
All i ever have had back is a generic e mail saying they are in " Daily contact with potential airlines and tour companies "
Marketing department at the airport which i believe is now based at Manchester to cut costs
That said, the management at BOH will no doubt have input, and IMO its naive to assume that they aren't talking to current and new operators to try and convince them to open more routes.
Last edited by pug; 7th Nov 2012 at 11:34.
Its amazing that Thomson have not seen a gap yet to put on extra flights in the 4 / 5 month period to Tenerife / Alicante / Malaga for example to at least help with this loss and make a few pounds in the meantime . The utilisation of the based aircraft is shocking in the winter
What most people are forgetting when discussing Ryanair's departure for the winter is that RYR ground a lot of their fleet over the winter - because a significant proportion of their pilots have run out of hours for the year. A maximum of 100hrs a month but only 900 for the year means that, as they are worked hard in the summer, they run out of hours over the winter. The flight crews that still have hours are used on more lucrative routes than BOH. This is slightly simplified but this is a major part of RYR's reasoning.
Last edited by Groundloop; 7th Nov 2012 at 14:46.
Can you shed any light on these experts. I'm just someone who wants to see the airport succeed. I haven't come across these so called experts have you?
The M.A.G commercial team are working very hard in this very difficult economic climate to deliver growth at Bournemouth, using all the benefits of our new facilities and low cost base to encourage new and increased operations. We are confident that the commercial team's efforts will deliver the growth requested by our passengers, local businesses and, in fact, the whole of the Bournemouth Airport team.
Well this statement clearly shows they haven't got a clue!
Well this statement clearly shows they haven't got a clue!
I should find something better to do with my spare time however, when I'm not flying my 320!
Last edited by pug; 7th Nov 2012 at 12:50.
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PUG,
Well I like your sense of humour! I do hope I don't get up to 712 posts though!
"The M.A.G commercial team are working very hard in this very difficult economic climate to deliver growth at Bournemouth, using all the benefits of our new facilities and low cost base to encourage new and increased operations. We are confident that the commercial team's efforts will deliver the growth requested by our passengers, local businesses and, in fact, the whole of the Bournemouth Airport team".
It fortunately doesn't take an expert to realise that they are just going to have to try a bit harder, especially if you walked through the terminal today or possibly do so at any time during the next five months.
PUG - over to you - as you'd better have the last word!
I've thoroughly enjoyed our little debate today but won't be making a habit of it though.
Well I like your sense of humour! I do hope I don't get up to 712 posts though!
"The M.A.G commercial team are working very hard in this very difficult economic climate to deliver growth at Bournemouth, using all the benefits of our new facilities and low cost base to encourage new and increased operations. We are confident that the commercial team's efforts will deliver the growth requested by our passengers, local businesses and, in fact, the whole of the Bournemouth Airport team".
It fortunately doesn't take an expert to realise that they are just going to have to try a bit harder, especially if you walked through the terminal today or possibly do so at any time during the next five months.
PUG - over to you - as you'd better have the last word!
I've thoroughly enjoyed our little debate today but won't be making a habit of it though.
Last edited by mrshubigbus; 7th Nov 2012 at 17:59.
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I see delusion has once again set in on this thread. It seems to rear its head almost on a routine basis.
The facts (the short version this time
)
Ryanair
Eazy
Jet2
Flybe
Aer Arann
Blue Islands
Thomson Fly
Just a list of the players in the UK regional market who all as it happens had a finger in the pie that is Hurn. Result? Only Ryanair around and even thats for half the year.
You can pick as much as you like on the scale of each of their involvement but Hurn is the so called cherry waiting to be plucked and yet.......................
Answer? There is no great need to fly from there, and there is certainly no desire to fly there FROM ANYONE
.
The facts (the short version this time
)Ryanair
Eazy
Jet2
Flybe
Aer Arann
Blue Islands
Thomson Fly
Just a list of the players in the UK regional market who all as it happens had a finger in the pie that is Hurn. Result? Only Ryanair around and even thats for half the year.
You can pick as much as you like on the scale of each of their involvement but Hurn is the so called cherry waiting to be plucked and yet.......................
Answer? There is no great need to fly from there, and there is certainly no desire to fly there FROM ANYONE
.
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Some more good news for Hurn/Bournemouth for 2013 NOT
Looks like Aer Arann flights to Dublin will only be on Thur/Fri/Sat/Sun.
eta BOH 1505 etd 1530
Unless they have not loaded the missing day , but unlikey..
Looks like Aer Arann flights to Dublin will only be on Thur/Fri/Sat/Sun.
eta BOH 1505 etd 1530
Unless they have not loaded the missing day , but unlikey..
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Bournemouth is doing rather well!
Perhaps some facts to illustrate the reality of airports in the UK. The CAA publish comprehensive statistics on the throughput of all UK airports.
The past peformance and passenger trends are worth looking at.
BOH is a small regional airport, similar in size to Exeter, Durham Tees Valley, Norwich, Coventry, Blackpool, Doncaster, and these days not very different to Glasgow Prestwick and Cardiff.
This is where you will find the data:
UK Airport Statistics | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA
I have prepared a graph (i was bored) of the throughput of these airports, and SOU, using CAA data for 2001, 2006, 2011 and projected for 2012. PM me if you want a copy.
If you take the trouble to look, you will see that BOH is the only one of any of these airports improving over 2011, and most importantly still substantially ahead of 2001 figures. Southampton hasn't done badly either, but is still in decline, although much less than its peers Prestwick and Cardiff.
Cardiff this year is back at 1996 pax levels!
BOH was at 157K pax back then... and SOU at 544k... a very different picture!
Times are hard for all UK regional airports, BOH is performing better than most, and is way ahead where it has been for most of the past 25 years. Well done!
Looking ahead, its pretty obvious that Flybe is struggling near term, and equally clear that Ryanair is booming.
If you want to understand airlines' strategy, take time to read the annual shareholder reports and interim updates, both Ryanair and Easyjet make good reading and tell you all you need to know to figure out what they will do.
Easyjet have no intention of expanding at places like BOH, their focus is business passenger growth, they are going after short haul markets served by Lufthansa, Air France, Alitalia, Iberia, TAP and British Airways.
See here:Results centre - easyJet plc
Ryanair are likely to slowly grow at BOH and other UK bases, perhaps 5 -10% per year. In line with its published plan for growth accross Europe detailed in their investor report published a few days ago, see here:
Investor Relations News
Flybe will almost certainly shrink in UK, which will hurt SOU, and other UK bases, my guess is a 3-5% pax reduction in 2013.
Not a disaster, both SOU and BOH are doing a lot better than most of their UK peers.
FF
The past peformance and passenger trends are worth looking at.
BOH is a small regional airport, similar in size to Exeter, Durham Tees Valley, Norwich, Coventry, Blackpool, Doncaster, and these days not very different to Glasgow Prestwick and Cardiff.
This is where you will find the data:
UK Airport Statistics | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA
I have prepared a graph (i was bored) of the throughput of these airports, and SOU, using CAA data for 2001, 2006, 2011 and projected for 2012. PM me if you want a copy.
If you take the trouble to look, you will see that BOH is the only one of any of these airports improving over 2011, and most importantly still substantially ahead of 2001 figures. Southampton hasn't done badly either, but is still in decline, although much less than its peers Prestwick and Cardiff.
Cardiff this year is back at 1996 pax levels!
BOH was at 157K pax back then... and SOU at 544k... a very different picture!
Times are hard for all UK regional airports, BOH is performing better than most, and is way ahead where it has been for most of the past 25 years. Well done!
Looking ahead, its pretty obvious that Flybe is struggling near term, and equally clear that Ryanair is booming.
If you want to understand airlines' strategy, take time to read the annual shareholder reports and interim updates, both Ryanair and Easyjet make good reading and tell you all you need to know to figure out what they will do.
Easyjet have no intention of expanding at places like BOH, their focus is business passenger growth, they are going after short haul markets served by Lufthansa, Air France, Alitalia, Iberia, TAP and British Airways.
See here:Results centre - easyJet plc
Ryanair are likely to slowly grow at BOH and other UK bases, perhaps 5 -10% per year. In line with its published plan for growth accross Europe detailed in their investor report published a few days ago, see here:
Investor Relations News
Flybe will almost certainly shrink in UK, which will hurt SOU, and other UK bases, my guess is a 3-5% pax reduction in 2013.
Not a disaster, both SOU and BOH are doing a lot better than most of their UK peers.
FF
Last edited by Flitefone; 8th Nov 2012 at 20:09.