BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
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BFS101, you make some fair points and it certainly would be possible to have EI continue feeding pax from BFS to LHR hub. I suppose that was my point, I dont see the interlining agreement being pulled.
I think BA would return to BFS though the city airport will have to make sure for its own long term that the LHR route stays in tact. I am not confident that BA will have long term interest here.
Ps - I dont work for EI despite my profile name!
I think BA would return to BFS though the city airport will have to make sure for its own long term that the LHR route stays in tact. I am not confident that BA will have long term interest here.
Ps - I dont work for EI despite my profile name!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Belfast
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I've long heard the line that the city attracts higher yielding traffic than Aldergrove but where is the evidence of this? Is there not alot more busines traffic, if indeed that is higher yield these days, at BFS.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Belfast, UK
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Belboy. When BD operated from both BFS and BHD into Heathrow, they publically stated that the demand and yield was much greater into BHD. Perhaps because they were a legacy carrier, more business focused, had more interlining traffic??; but that was the reason given when they then pulled out of BFS completely.
Its obvious that business people will pay for convenience, and business fares are higher yield, LCY fares being generally higher for example. And many business people flying to and from Belfast will find BHD more convenient. Now that was maybe about ten years ago, so have things maybe changed since then, I don't know, but would imagine business travellers from the mainland, if all things were equal, would prefer to fly into BHD, especially in their final destination was in the city.
Its obvious that business people will pay for convenience, and business fares are higher yield, LCY fares being generally higher for example. And many business people flying to and from Belfast will find BHD more convenient. Now that was maybe about ten years ago, so have things maybe changed since then, I don't know, but would imagine business travellers from the mainland, if all things were equal, would prefer to fly into BHD, especially in their final destination was in the city.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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I'm not convinced that yield is better at city airport, nor do I believe it is hugely more attractive for the passenger as an airport, granted i like flying from there myself.
Re yield, I point to 2 examples.
1. In the 1990s when Bmi and BA served BFS LHR Bmi group put Manx Airlines on 4 daily BHD LHR. It was said to have done well though when ORY opened up Bmi took the 4 daily slots back from Manx in order to fly LHR ORY. If BHD was better at that time why didn't they split the schedule between the 2 BFS airports? Or move completely? I realise they did both of these actions later on but granted when BA pulled out. I believe the deal from BHD was and is so attractive that bmi stayed, not necessarily about yield.
2. Easyjet would have kept Luton at BHD if the yield was better.
Re yield, I point to 2 examples.
1. In the 1990s when Bmi and BA served BFS LHR Bmi group put Manx Airlines on 4 daily BHD LHR. It was said to have done well though when ORY opened up Bmi took the 4 daily slots back from Manx in order to fly LHR ORY. If BHD was better at that time why didn't they split the schedule between the 2 BFS airports? Or move completely? I realise they did both of these actions later on but granted when BA pulled out. I believe the deal from BHD was and is so attractive that bmi stayed, not necessarily about yield.
2. Easyjet would have kept Luton at BHD if the yield was better.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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If IAG are buying BMI for their slots at LHR, they will want to use those slots for high yield international routes. I can't see them rushing to replace the BD flights to LHR. So will EI pick up the slack? Well, can they get the extra slots? We know they swapped slots from Cork to Aldergrove when they came here, so they can't have many to play with. Possibly, we'll see BA extend the codeshare with EI, and selling EI a few slot pairs at LHR? EI can go to 6 or 7 a day, and BA get their codeshare cut and the onward traffic?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belfast
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Knock on effects from the bmi sale to IAG
There are a few points to bear in mind when musing over the likely effects on our LHR links.
1. BA left BFS because they needed the slots for their migration of longhaul from Gatwick to Heathrow. Their stated reasons were just a smokescreen. It wasn't about profitability as such though I understand they did have an issue as to how revenue was divided up for connecting flights.
2. There are undoubtedly high fares to be earned at peak business times out of BHD. HOWEVER, when booking ahead I almost always get better fares on bmi, than on IE from BFS.
3. Business passengers follow the schedule, IE does not have enough flights to be business friendly.
4. Everyone was surprised when IE cut back next summers schedule. This has been interpreted as due to weak demand. I have seen no real evidence of weak demand. The flights are fairly full and getting decent fares. IMHO it is much more likely that IE were aware in advance of the negotiations between LH and IAG and have decided to play safe.
5. IAG are almost certainly still interested in buying IE, subject to the pensions liability being resolved. Given that absolutely no buyer will be interested whilst there is a pension liability, IAG is frontrunner for evental ownership of IE.
6. BA do not have enough capacity at T5. This is a real problem as minimum connecting times from T1 to T5 are too high. (T5 to T1 is much quicker).
7. Finally. Things have changed a lot in 10 years. The past is not much of a guide to the future. BA has drastically cut their operating costs and IE run a very effcient base at BFS.
There are a lot of scenarios that could play out.
- IE could pick up some extra slots and operate a full schedule from BFS.
- IE and BA could set up a joint full business friendly schedule from BFS.
- BA could retain the BHD service pretty much as is, at least in the medium term.
Given the IE cutback next summer. I'd go for the third option for now.
The proposed takeover timescale is very agressive, perhaps we won't have to wait very long.
1. BA left BFS because they needed the slots for their migration of longhaul from Gatwick to Heathrow. Their stated reasons were just a smokescreen. It wasn't about profitability as such though I understand they did have an issue as to how revenue was divided up for connecting flights.
2. There are undoubtedly high fares to be earned at peak business times out of BHD. HOWEVER, when booking ahead I almost always get better fares on bmi, than on IE from BFS.
3. Business passengers follow the schedule, IE does not have enough flights to be business friendly.
4. Everyone was surprised when IE cut back next summers schedule. This has been interpreted as due to weak demand. I have seen no real evidence of weak demand. The flights are fairly full and getting decent fares. IMHO it is much more likely that IE were aware in advance of the negotiations between LH and IAG and have decided to play safe.
5. IAG are almost certainly still interested in buying IE, subject to the pensions liability being resolved. Given that absolutely no buyer will be interested whilst there is a pension liability, IAG is frontrunner for evental ownership of IE.
6. BA do not have enough capacity at T5. This is a real problem as minimum connecting times from T1 to T5 are too high. (T5 to T1 is much quicker).
7. Finally. Things have changed a lot in 10 years. The past is not much of a guide to the future. BA has drastically cut their operating costs and IE run a very effcient base at BFS.
There are a lot of scenarios that could play out.
- IE could pick up some extra slots and operate a full schedule from BFS.
- IE and BA could set up a joint full business friendly schedule from BFS.
- BA could retain the BHD service pretty much as is, at least in the medium term.
Given the IE cutback next summer. I'd go for the third option for now.
The proposed takeover timescale is very agressive, perhaps we won't have to wait very long.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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All this talk about better yield to Lhr from Bhd, not Bfs. If in a few months time, the only game in town is Bfs - Lhr, then the yield will be there as there will be no alternative. I think this marks the end of competition on domestic routes to Lhr, there will be nobody else in the future to provide that. Part of the reason will be lack of slots at Lhr for anyone else to start services. So the competition in the future will be between airports at the London end from Belfast, not to Lhr itself. If I was BA, I would do a deal with EI, get what I want, probably at lower cost. The only problem with that, would be an early morning out of Lhr to Belfast. So would Ba do 2/3 services a day or would Ei night stop at Lhr. 3 a day from each end by each carrier looks a real possibility.
TB
TB
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Belfast, UK
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Found this on UK Airport News
There are concerns over the future of the BMI service from Belfast City Airport to Heathrow, UTV reports. The route - which is considered the most important air link between Northern Ireland and Great Britain - is at risk with BMI expected to be taken over by British Airways.
Prof Austin Smyth from the University of Westminster, said he expects BA to cut the number of short haul routes BMI operates from Heathrow. He said: ‘The reason BA is purchasing BMI is for its landing slots to Heathrow. It could divert those slots to more profitable [long haul] destinations.’
However, NI Trade Minister Arlene Foster was more positive. She said: ‘We have been watching very carefully what is happening, but we are quite content because we know the flights between Belfast and Heathrow are profitable.'
Prof Austin Smyth from the University of Westminster, said he expects BA to cut the number of short haul routes BMI operates from Heathrow. He said: ‘The reason BA is purchasing BMI is for its landing slots to Heathrow. It could divert those slots to more profitable [long haul] destinations.’
However, NI Trade Minister Arlene Foster was more positive. She said: ‘We have been watching very carefully what is happening, but we are quite content because we know the flights between Belfast and Heathrow are profitable.'
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I would suspect the deal will be conditional on certain domestic city pairs being retained. Government will not allow IAG to remove links to the regions from LHR, it isn't what the UK needs right now.
That said, if the Shuttles to EDI, GLA & MAN are upgauged to bigger aircraft as demand requires then bmi slots to those cities are fair game for going to long haul IMO.
Belfast must be profitable for BD or it would have been pulled by now, no sentiment was afforded to GLA. I flew with them just over a week ago and there were very few seats to be had out (A320) or back (A319). Perhaps IAG will just let it tick over as is while maintaining a close eye and getting the best of both worlds by enjoying feed from BFS and BHD?
That said, if the Shuttles to EDI, GLA & MAN are upgauged to bigger aircraft as demand requires then bmi slots to those cities are fair game for going to long haul IMO.
Belfast must be profitable for BD or it would have been pulled by now, no sentiment was afforded to GLA. I flew with them just over a week ago and there were very few seats to be had out (A320) or back (A319). Perhaps IAG will just let it tick over as is while maintaining a close eye and getting the best of both worlds by enjoying feed from BFS and BHD?
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Can't see the government taking that much interest in regional links to LHR specifically. Even if they did, there would still be an extant link.
It'll be a purely financial decision.
It'll be a purely financial decision.
Join Date: Mar 2010
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regards EI at the moment the plan is to base 2xA319's at belfast and 1xA320 next summer, depending upon the outcome of BA-BD this could however change but thats the plan at the moment.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Can't see the government taking that much interest in regional links to LHR specifically
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Iceland Express
just wondering if there is any news regarding iceland express, i know last year the route never got off the ground, but i think this was due to money problems.
they did say they would be back for 2012 with reykjavik, and newyork. plus it is now appearing on wikipedia (i know not a valuable source) but does someone maybe know more about this
they did say they would be back for 2012 with reykjavik, and newyork. plus it is now appearing on wikipedia (i know not a valuable source) but does someone maybe know more about this
Join Date: Mar 2008
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The route did get off to a start as such ( The original planned triangle route EDI-BFS -KEF) it was just that the BFS section didnt. Was a summer only service ex EDI with acceptable loads. Should be back next year height of summer only (from June, M,F) if it doesnt all go t*ts up. No mention of BFS in next summer schedules however