Don't forget HS2 was adopted as a sop to the LibDems to help secure a working majority coalition government. Chinese whispers abound regarding the third Heathrow runway being back on the cards despite all of the bluster from Boris. Regarding Curzon Street being a terminus for the initial stage of HS2 any approach from the south or south east would have to be tunneled or elevated as would any onward extension. I can not think of a worse suggestion for a Birmingham terminus with the exception of New St. New St is hampered by being too central and has restricted access to the station consisting of two tunnels at both ends. Capacity has been reached for years and delays are a way of life.
If, and it is a big if, HS2 goes ahead then another terminus site will have to be found and a mass transit system put into place to connect BHX and New St. East of the city centre has the best locations and motorway access from all directions and would be closer to BHX. The airport does not need another station it has one connected to the national rail system with three fast trains an hour taking about 75 minutes to London. As for the WCML being at full capacity in 2020, I would suggest that is just scaremongering by the proponents of HS2. I have driven trains over the WCML for about 15 years now and the capacity issues are more down to bully boy tactics by Beardies bunch over timetabling, rather than actual capacity issues.
Other than the Tories were the first of the three main parties to sort HSR and not the lib dems and had it in their manifesto.
The Brum outskirts station will be at BHX and by the motorway, and no one seriously does not think that there will soon - 2026 being the estimate - be need for additional track capacity on the WCML. The opponents of HS2 don't argue the extra capacity will not be required rather that quieter stops should lose their services.
Of choose the roe into Brum, without the tunnels or elevated sections has now (some months ago) been published by HS2/DfT.
Quote: "Curzon Street is extremely close to the existing New Street Station, far closer than any of the existing mainline rail stations in London are to each other."
Even if Curzon Street is as close as a 5 minute walk, would pax (possibly carrying baggage) connecting from other places in the conurbation via New Street be bothered to do it, and have to pay the HS2 supplement for the priveledge)? With a 5 minute walk, the 15 minute time saving becomes 10 minutes, is it really worth it? People want convenience and lack of hassle.
Quote: "But HS2 is not about shaving time of train journeys, it is about adding additional capacity that will be required on the WCML before the end of the 2020s."
Yes it is! that's exactly what it's about.
Quote: "Other than the Tories were the first of the three main parties to sort HSR and not the lib dems and had it in their manifesto."
Whether it's a Conservative or a Libdem vanity project is a moot point. It's also got the fingerprints of Labour's Andrew Adonis all over it. They're all too keen to waste public money while cutting vital services and attacking public servants.
There are many rival schemes from railway professionals for improving capacity: more bypasses, more graded junctions, removal of bottlenecks, duplication of 2-track sections to better segregate fast and slow trains, electrification of branches to eliminate slower diesels (e.g. North wales line, Blackpool, Preston to Liverpool/Manchester), improvement of the New Street bottleneck (as is being done at Reading at present), etc..
These can be done incrementally and for a lot less than £32bn.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 3rd Jun 2012 at 12:19.
Of choose the roe into Brum, without the tunnels or elevated sections has now (some months ago) been published by HS2/DfT.
Just had a good look at the official plans and there are quite a few elevated sections in to Brum.
Quote:
There are many rival schemes from railway professionals for improving capacity: more bypasses, more graded junctions, removal of bottlenecks, duplication of 2-track sections to better segregate fast and slow trains, electrification of branches to eliminate slower diesels (e.g. North wales line, Blackpool, Preston to Liverpool/Manchester), improvement of the New Street bottleneck (it's being done at Reading at present), etc..
These can be done incrementally and for a lot less than £32bn.
Thank Christ for pragmatism over dreamers vanity projects.
The most recent drawings in the Birmingham Mail show a large covered walkway all the way from Curzon Street linking up with either the Bull Ring or New Street Station,and supposedly moving walkways.
Not sure how it would fit having a quick look at the angles between etc, but Im no architect so what do I know ?
Fairdealfrank - show me the HS2 or DfT documents that big up the time savings as the reason for the project.
You seem to be confusing journos who have dumbed down the project and focused on the speed and are ignoring what those involved in the project are saying.
For once this country is looking ahead, the capacity issue that everyone agrees is coming (other than you Fairdealfrank - even the anti's do not argue that case) and plans are put in place to avoid the WCML running out of capacity.
Reports have been done by Network Rail, a shed loads of consultants, the DfT, HS2 and all come back showing the most effective way to resolve those capacity issues is new tracks.
So, if you build new tracks do you build them at high or low speed if the price is very similar.
Anyway, I await with interest these reports from the DfT or HS2 showing that this is all about speed and not capacity, I may have quite some wait though.
I think that the extra capacity issue is just as important if not more so than the extra speed.
Our current rail lines are reaching capacity and seems the only way to increase that is to take high speed trains off the current ones and put local trains on them. At least the HS2 lines would allow that.
Anyway we are all getting way off aviation, so I won't comment further.
It looks as if the new SAS ARN service from BHX reduces to five weekly (daily ex Tue and Sat.) for Dec 2012, Jan and Feb 2013. Six weekly returns on 26th Feb. Discovered this while trying to book a pre-Christmas break. Daza
Back from Berlin, went out on the first service Sunday 3rd June, as mentioned by Ian a few posts back.
I assume the fact it was a late Sunday evening, a UK bank holiday weekend and it was not going to the much heralded new Berlin airport was the reason why the first indication that it was the first service was at 37000ft over Germany during the first officers update of the progress of the flight?
No business pax outbound or inbound tonight but a very different make-up to each flight. Outbound Sunday the load was between 80-90 and most seem to be UK leisure pax and of course there was nothing too shocking about that.
Tonight was only third flight and was there was about 60 passengers but a much different make-up. There were a lot of Germans in suits and a lot of German speakers full-stop.
One source shows the A319 as 138 seats, which I must admit sounded a lot to fill for a BHX-Berlin flight on a daily basis but you never know.
What was interesting was the ultra-slimline racaro seat Lufthansa now use giving a lot of legroom for an aircraft the size of an A319 with 138 seats.
I would imagine very good for most LH missions but anything longer than three hours might affect your back even with the leather.
When Maersk operated the daily flight, it was mainly economy passengers that filled the 737. Many times we used to carry over 100 down the back with the curtain divider at row 2.
Quote: “The airport does not need another station it has one connected to the national rail system with three fast trains an hour taking about 75 minutes to London. As for the WCML being at full capacity in 2020, I would suggest that is just scaremongering by the proponents of HS2. I have driven trains over the WCML for about 15 years now and the capacity issues are more down to bully boy tactics by Beardies bunch over timetabling, rather than actual capacity issues.”
Interesting point McGoonagall!
Quote: “You seem to be confusing journos who have dumbed down the project and focused on the speed and are ignoring what those involved in the project are saying.
For once this country is looking ahead, the capacity issue that everyone agrees is coming (other than you Fairdealfrank - even the anti's do not argue that case) and plans are put in place to avoid the WCML running out of capacity.”
Not so, Manchester Kurt, the truth is that the HS2 was hastily cobbled together just before the 2010 election, so it's not the journos who dumbed it down! Politicians saw another band wagon rolling and as usual, jumped on it.
Have no objections to the principle of high speed rail, so please do not imply this. The objections are to the sloppy way it’s been put together and the way it has alienated millions. It’s lack of connectivity with existing transport interchanges is probably the best way to ensure it’s a white elephant.
Common sense dictates that they need to take the time to come up with a sensible scheme that links into and compliments existing rail, road and air options and so extends choice. It is, after all, an expensive and long term project, so use the money wisely and do not settle for second best.
Were you on the Tuesday evening flight? My in-laws were on that and they reckon there were only a handful of empty seats. They were down the front though so perhaps couldn't see.
I was on the Tuesday evening inbound to BHX in row 12, it was around here that most the passengers were seated. Business was empty and the last seven rows looked to have only a few pax as well.
I did a rough head-count at the gate a few times and I never got to more than 60 and everyone had a seat in what I can only describe as a compact area.
I won't go into detail of how Tegal works but I would say that the BBI delay has given them a few headaches to deal with but it made BHX look super efficient, especially when we landed the airbridge was ready and we walked virtually straight through immigration plus the "e-gates" were working as well.
With hand-luggage only we were waiting for our lift at the railway station within 15 minutes of touching down.
