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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:37   #2061 (permalink)
 
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Why the families UK home for many many years has been leafy Buckinghamshire and close to the end of the metropolitan tube line "Chalfont St Giles"

A stones throw from the "blackhole"
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 13:51   #2062 (permalink)
 
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When Qatar get round to operating into Birmingham they will almost certainly use two class A332/333 models.

Of all the nonsense AH/AI/EK third flight early 2013 - Qatar are the only creditable new carrier on the horizon - however as you rightly point out Islamic holidays combined with Uk low season would likely hold back any decision to the autumn period or even 2014.

As for India well lets say combined political interference global recession (In relevant tech industries) and shear weakness of all airline candidates will prevent any UK regional service for some years.
Kingfisher - Effectively bust
Air India - Corrupt political tool and also broke
Jet - More concerned with *A membership and deciding whether to remain in Brussels or move to Munich.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:40   #2063 (permalink)
 
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What would come first in UK EDI or BHX for the next ME route from any carrier be it Qatar or Etihad ?

Last edited by CabinCrewe; 28th Dec 2012 at 14:40.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 15:00   #2064 (permalink)
 
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Didn't Qatar say they were waiting for deliveries of new aircraft? I didn't think they would be waiting for deliveries of new A330s.

Quote:
Plans to rename BHX Ozzy Osbourne International Airport anyone?
How ironic - I saw that in the news - I'm not sure I like the idea, then again we'll still refer to it as BHX so it won't make much of a difference.

Quote:
However reported on another site, two more two class A332's are to leave the fleet early 2013. This leaves 22 A332's mainly three class configurations.
Well, I get the feeling EK would want to start the third daily service before the A332's run out as I can't see them starting with a 772/3, unless they would be willing to operate an A343 on the route if it can manage the runway length.

Quote:
Over the years there have been quite a few routes from BHX that were top money makers...apparantley..

AA BHX to Chicago.. was 3rd highest performer after MAD & ?..
AI BHX to Amritsar.. Air India said made large amounts of money.. only stopped to save landing rights at LHR...

Both of the above no longer operate...
I'm guessing AA was the third highest performer after MAD and possibly Dubai. I don't think BHX really fought to keep AI, or at least get it back the next summer. They do seem to be vying for AA/Chicago however, it has recently been in the news with them realising the cities are twinned . After AA terminated in 2002, PIA struck up a service to Chicago transiting through BHX, which worked well until they brought out their 777s and moved to MAN instead.

Airlines like US Airways could have worked well if they sorted out these landing charges and, if they maybe decided to make it year round and had been more confident in it as they must realise they are struggling with attaining numerous US services in the long-term. Continental seems to be the only one that has worked, and that always seems to be full.

I guess it's quite unlikely we'll be seeing an India service in 2013, but it's possible if one of those three airlines sort themselves out. I think it's certain the A380 won't come until the runway is done.

It's quite a shame as with Air India, you would get 3 different 777s at the airport at a time (EK, PIA are the others) which not many other UK airports could manage, not even Gatwick.

2013 will indeed be an interesting year for new services. Still keeping a lookout for any rumours.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 15:01   #2065 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What would come first in UK EDI or BHX for the next ME route from any carrier be it Qatar or Etihad ?
BHX seems more of a priority, Qatar have even confirmed they'll start BHX (no schedules or start date yet however). Etihad won't be here for a couple of years at least.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 15:58   #2066 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Of all the nonsense AH/AI/EK third flight early 2013
Couldn't agree more rutankrd, there has been more than the usual wishful thinking on this thread recently. I know this is a rumour network but EK third flight, AI, AA and QR @ BHX rumours are just getting boring and the fact they still get discussed is testament to to the fact that there is simply nothing else out there credible long haul wise to talk about

Yes QR and EK are possible, although when who knows. I know that BHX are still chasing AI but really what for? If ATQ had been a goldmine they would still be flying it. As for AH, what utter nonsense - IF it happens it will be yet another Hellenic, Aerosvit, Armavia - blink and you miss it.

Fact is, as of right now, BHX has but two new confirmed routes for summer '13 which are ZB summer season low frequency leisure flights to BOD and SPU as well as the planned increase of TK flights to IST. That's it. People are focusing so much on long haul dreams they seem to have forgotten that for summer '13:

1. All BE French seasonal routes have been dropped (low frequency and short season admittedly but still more than a few thousand pax lost)

2. City routes recently dropped to GOT, LYS, PRG and LIS have not been replaced

3. There are increasingly (and worryingly) more capacity cuts on legacy carrier routes (LX to ZRH, LH to TXL for example)

4. There are still gaps in both city and leisure focused destinations in Europe.

Positivity yes - but cmbined with realism. BHX is certainly not stagnating but it is failing to attract new airlines (last was TK in 2009?) and cannot seem to attract a based carrier that will commit to an aggressive expansion of airframes and destinations at a BHX base, although ZB have shown commitment to long term growth. We also need to remember that annual pax numbers are still well below 9 million and the airport has been overtaken by LTN and EDI in the past 24 months in annual pax totals.

Don't get me wrong I am very pro BHX and have flown at least once a month from there during 2012 on business and leisure. The investment in pax facilities has transformed the place very much for the better. And I would be the first to be shouting off the rooftops if QR for example did start but until there are either a raft of new carriers and destinations announced or a based carrier that really takes the lead and develops a 10+ based airframe operation BHX will continue to simply stumble along rather than growing in leaps and bounds which it should be given its first class pax facilities and central location.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 16:17   #2067 (permalink)
 
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Well said GF! All this recent talk of will QR ever start, will AA/AI/US ever comeback and heaven help us the coming of Air Algerie is getting a bit tedious. The problem is that many people believe the runway extension will solve all BHX's problems. It won't. But while I do think the extension will make the airport a more lucrative option for some carriers, the basic fact remains that their are gaping holes in BHX's short haul market which I think should be addressed before chasing after fantasy routes such as SFO or SIN just to grab a bit of media attention. The answer to turning BHX's fortunes around in the short term lies with Jet2 IMO.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 16:30   #2068 (permalink)
 
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"Continental seems to be the only one that has worked, and that always seems to be full"
Well not if the CAA stats for Nov are to be believed....
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 17:15   #2069 (permalink)
 
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Short Haul/Jet2

But what would Jet2 bring that Monarch/Thomson/Thomas Cook/FR/BE dont already offer?

Monarch have gone from 4 BHX based A/C in 2011 to 6 Monarch and 2 wet leased in 2012 and 9 Monarch aircraft planned for 2013 plus increased frequencies and two knew routes (Bordeaux and Split). Just dont see what Jet2 could really bring other than maybe a new route or two but surely if they needed serving Tom/TC/ZB/ would be serving them.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 18:09   #2070 (permalink)
 
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Jet2

Despite MON picking up a lot of the slack from bmibaby, I still feel that their is room for another based carrier at BHX. Ryanair aren't really interested and the cynic in me believes they only keep their BHX base running so they have somewhere to park their spare aircraft in the winter months. EZY have had plenty of opportunity to start a base at BHX in the past but don't seem interested either.

Jet 2 have gone from strength to strength in their existing bases and BHX has often been rumored as a potential new station. The likes of Budapest, Prague, Tolouse, Lisbon, Pisa, a few underserved bucket and spade routes and perhaps something like Madrid or even Tel Aviv would be good to see. Like I say, it's just my two cents but I think these kind of goals are more realistic than chasing somewhere like ORD.

Last edited by chinapattern; 28th Dec 2012 at 18:10.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 18:11   #2071 (permalink)
 
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Quote: "AI BHX to Amritsar.. Air India said made large amounts of money.. only stopped to save landing rights at LHR..."

Don't understand how the two are connected. There is a fairly liberal (if not open skies) agreement between the UK and India. It was, for example, liberal enough to allow BA, BD, VS, AI and 9W on LHR-BOM (BD dropped out and IT came on later) with BA and 9W twice daily.



Quote: "Plans to rename BHX Ozzy Osbourne International Airport anyone?"

Hmmm, Heathrow-Dick Turpin Airport ?
Heathrow-The Black Hole Airport? (see below)

No, let's not waste money on frivolity, leave it as the much more sensible Birmingham-Elmdon.

Why not name our railway stations and football grounds after celebrities first? Once we've made ourselves look silly nationally then maybe we can make ourselves a laughing stock globally.

Quote: "Why the families UK home for many many years has been leafy Buckinghamshire and close to the end of the metropolitan tube line "Chalfont St Giles"

A stones throw from the "blackhole"

Los Angeles was also home for a while, IIRC.

Quote: "As for India well lets say combined political interference global recession (In relevant tech industries) and shear weakness of all airline candidates will prevent any UK regional service for some years.
Kingfisher - Effectively bust
Air India - Corrupt political tool and also broke
Jet - More concerned with *A membership and deciding whether to remain in Brussels or move to Munich.
"

Yes, forget about AI to ATQ coming back, forget about IT and/or 9W starting up, never going to happen. Why? because it's too late.

The low yield VFR traffic to northern India has been sown up by EK in particular (offering multiple destinations in India via DXB) and, to a lesser extent, TK. Doubtless QR and EY will be on this bandwagon before AI gets it act together.

As for the premium business and high yield, that heads further south these days to Bombay, as always, and the growing cities of Bangalore and Hyderabad and Madras.

Over the years there has been a change, a move to the south and nonstop UK-India flights now reflect this: they go to BLR, HYD and MAA rather than ATQ and CCU. BOM is the main centre for business finance, and commerce, DEL is the capital and the centre of the tourist trade, so they have always had the most flights and this won't change.

As far as BHX and the sub-continent is concerned, would expect Pakistan and Bangladesh to be more important direct destinations. As far as India is concerned, LHR appears to have its routes sown up.

Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 28th Dec 2012 at 18:35.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 18:26   #2072 (permalink)
 
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BHX can't really expect any new investment, especially of the "10 based airframes" type at present, and even in the foreseeable future.

"It's the economy, stupid", and that is the top and bottom of the lack of progress. The West Midlands certainly has its success stories, but the economy just is not as vibrant as London's, and even that is pretty pedestrian at present.

BHX wasn't helped by their failure to secure a based loco during the loco boom (about 1995-2007). The strategy of sticking with established full service carriers has had some success looking at the range of current operators, but the lack of a based loco has been, in retrospect, disadvantageous. Don't forget that Baby came late to BHX, and was not the best-managed company. MyTravelLite was a flawed concept that failed to survive consolidation in the IT industry, so the only saviour has been Monarch.

I can't see much more than trend levels of growth over the next few years, unless someone with more money than sense latches on to the extended runway with a long-haul operation.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 18:29   #2073 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
But what would Jet2 bring that Monarch/Thomson/Thomas Cook/FR/BE dont already offer?
Quite a lot! I do hope that you don't work for the BHX Marketing Team....

Looking at the current Jet2 map, La Rochelle, Bergerac, Geneva, Marrakech, Sardinia, Pisa, Budapest (forgot in my previous post that we are about to lose that aswell), Prague, Corfu, Zante, Kos, Rhodes, Tel Aviv are all served by Jet2 but not by airlines from BHX. I'm not saying all of these would work but there is enough selection of city break and beach destinations for a two a/c base?

Personally I would prefer an EZY base but talking about an EZY BHX base is almost as dull as the when will QR start question.

Quote:
Why not name our railway stations and football grounds after celebrities first?
I think BHX would greatly benefit from Birmingham International station being renamed to Birmingham Airport
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 20:30   #2074 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I think BHX would greatly benefit from Birmingham International station being renamed to Birmingham Airport
I quite agree. When you think about it all airports are international so why state the obvious? There again there are some strange airport names. Bristol was built out of an RAF base in a village called Lulsgate Bottom in North Somerset. "Welcome to Lulsgate Bottom where the local time is......" Then again Calcutta's airport is named Dum Dum which is an area north west of city!
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 20:42   #2075 (permalink)
 
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Nope I dont work for BHX

Looking at that route list that Jet2 do a fair few are covered by existing carriers at BHX

Geneva - ZB, BE
Marrakech -Tom
Budapest - BE
Prague - BE
Corfu -ZB(charter), Tom, TC
Zante - ZB(charter), Tom
Kos - Tom
Rhodes - BE, Tom

That was found from a brief look on there websites. What would ideally be better for BHX would be continued growth of the likes of ZB to Antayla, Friedrichshafen (winter) and maybe some ZB Rhodes, Corfu, Zante, Heraklion and Kos rather than charter, maybe some more mid to long destions wouldn't go a miss such as Goa, Mombassa, Tobago etc aswell.

Continued growth is occuring, Monarchs winter 2013/4 programme has been released with an extra SSH, ACE, FAO, TFS, LCA a week + GIB(3 per week - New Route) I can really only speak for ZB and not other carriers.

Last edited by Alex321; 28th Dec 2012 at 20:56.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 20:50   #2076 (permalink)
 
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Budapest and Prague by BE???

Since when?
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 21:15   #2077 (permalink)
 
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777s

Planeaddict

Regarding the possibilty of seeing three 777s at BHX from three different international airlines I think your find that London Gatwick does have three international airlines 777s tails in together at the same time and all in the North Terminal as in EK, KE, VN along with BA of course although KE is seasonal.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 22:52   #2078 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Airlines like US Airways could have worked well if they sorted out these landing charges and, if they maybe decided to make it year round and had been more confident in it .
What do you mean? They tried it for one season and passenger yield and volume were below expectations. It really was that simple, if it had been wider issues they'd have persevered. Indeed they have now expanded at SNN and dropped LGW having remained seasonal at GLA. Being "confident in it" had absolutely nothing to do with it, demand wasn't there to make enough money.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 23:16   #2079 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
When you think about it all airports are international so why state the obvious?
Birmingham dropped 'International' from it's title some time ago when they did the re-branding. It's just plain old Birmingham airport now......The Airport management is not exactly pushing for the Station to be renamed to reflect the change

Last edited by call100; 28th Dec 2012 at 23:16.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 11:28   #2080 (permalink)
 
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I wouldn't like a Jet2 base in Birmingham for a couple of reasons:
- It would harm what they have successfully built up at East Midlands in recent years in which they are very pleased with the performance of and in fact since the new base opened in 2010, it has had another aircraft added to it every summer (now 4 for 2013).
- Monarch have recently expanded Birmingham and Jet2 is simply not needed as the two airlines are very comparible and quite simply quite similar in what they offer. Jet2 wouldn't bring anything new to Birmingham and would be surprised if they wanted them as they would only upset Monarch as well as their own base at East Midlands Airport.

The airlines never stop surprising us though so who knows? Monarch have started from Jet2 airports (East Midlands and Leeds/Bradford) so maybe Jet2 will start going into Monarch airports but I really wouldn't like to see Jet2 in Birmingham because as I say, it would bring nothing new and would just cause harm elsewhere. I'd prefer a London base, preferably Stansted after it's sold off as only Ryanair serves a lot of the key routes like Alicante and Barcelona next year, but what is the liklihood of them going to London airports???
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