Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Aer Lingus - 6

Old 26th May 2015, 23:03
  #2921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Why are you persisting over and over with this blatant distortion of reality?

You insist that the blocking of a takeover was the basis for the decision. It wasn't. It was a minor part of it.

Secondly, if Ryanair doesn't sell its share, and IAG withdraws, then FR WILL HAVE BLOCKED A TAKEOVER thus proving the decision correct.

Who are you trying to fool?
IAG doesn't need Ryanairs shareholding to complete a takeover.

Not up to a court to decide a takeover.
racedo is offline  
Old 26th May 2015, 23:19
  #2922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by racedo
IAG doesn't need Ryanairs shareholding to complete a takeover.

Not up to a court to decide a takeover.
Yes they do, Ryanair have 30%, If they block it and convince 20% of shareholders not to sell (easy) then they have blocked it.

Also the EU courts have the ultimate decision.
AerRyan is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 09:38
  #2923 (permalink)  
bnt
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland. (No, I just live here.)
Posts: 732
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by j636
IAG presentation

file:///C:/Users/(user)/Downloads/Aer%20Lingus%20Cash%20Offer.pdf
Got a link to the file online? You posted a link to the file on your PC, but we can't access your PC ... you hope.

Last edited by bnt; 9th Sep 2015 at 12:53.
bnt is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 11:31
  #2924 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK & Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...F8VHlwZT0z&t=1
j636 is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 12:10
  #2925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So all going to their plan, Ryanair gets its money back and on one hand EY doubles their relatively small investment but on the other hand their online partner (remember their original aim was to gain more European routes) will go as EI will aim to increase PAX via LHR to APAC/Africa. For EI it would be like dragging a horse to water trying to convince passengers on the merits of LHR when an ever increasing number are enjoying the ease and convenience of AUH and BDX.
Sober Lark is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 12:32
  #2926 (permalink)  
840
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If EI moved their flights to T5, it would vastly improve the experience of connecting in Heathrow.

Is there any chance we might see a resumption of flights from Cork and/or Shannon to Gatwick?
840 is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 13:29
  #2927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Róisín Dubh
Posts: 1,389
Received 11 Likes on 4 Posts
These 4 new US destinations. Will they be from the ROI or the island of Ireland?
Will they be served by EI or by the IAG group (IE for example if BA stopped a flight in SNN one way to say IAD, would this count as one of them?), will they all be from DUB if they are EI or say would EG SNN-ORD or BFS-JFK start on a 757? And whats the time frame? Several of the A330s were due to remain alongside the A350s, giving far more extra capacity than is required to start just 4 new US routes.
Una Due Tfc is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 13:34
  #2928 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
UDT

Dublin only, 2 next year.

Expect BOS may see a 3rd daily flight at some point, EI are the only dominant carrier offering Euro connections from there.
EI-A330-300 is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 13:55
  #2929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not necessarily Dublin only, I have seen no reports stating that EI will start new transatlantic routes from Dublin, they all say from Ireland.
Of course they will mainly if not exclusively Dublin but I certainly would not rule out another Transatlantic route from Shannon or maybe Cork (not BFS)
AerRyan is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 14:01
  #2930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not necessarily Dublin only, I have seen no reports stating that EI will start new transatlantic routes from Dublin, they all say from Ireland.
Of course they will mainly if not exclusively Dublin but I certainly would not rule out another Transatlantic route from Shannon or maybe Cork (not BFS)
It's Dublin, even EI would admit that, they are adding 1 A330 next year from DUB and 2 routes. 2 more new (not existing airports served) following from DUB also and you don't believe they would try a new airport from SNN which DUB hasn't got?
EI-A330-300 is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 14:26
  #2931 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Róisín Dubh
Posts: 1,389
Received 11 Likes on 4 Posts
Cheers EI. LAX was already due to start next year. As agreements with UA expire I expect EI to move more towards AA hubs : LAX, MIA, DFW etc

Edit: AA fly CLT and PHL daily from DUB with A330s, what's to stop EI replacing them and there's 2 of the 4 new routes?

Last edited by Una Due Tfc; 27th May 2015 at 15:17.
Una Due Tfc is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 19:33
  #2932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why aren't they up in arms? Perhaps because there is as yet no formal bid or transaction for the competition regulator (CMA or DG COMP) to evaluate? Once IAG makes a formal bid and there is something for the regulator to look at, you can expect it to get involved.
Probably because VS isn’t whinging this time. Which other carrier wants to LHR-DUB? It’s not an issue.



The whole debate rages on about the finer details of the promises that IAG is expected to make. Yes we need a commitment that IAG would not scrap flights from Ireland to the UK, and that guarantee looks good for 7 years. But there are 2 issues here:


1. BA could simply axe their own 8 times daily DUB LHR route and put the slots elsewhere, and EI could step up the route to 321's as opposed to 320 (and the rare 319s on the route these days). So in effect, capacity could be reduced...


2. Qatar Airways are in the background with a large interest in IAG, while the most likely would be prevented from taking over a majority of the group, changes in dynamic and ownership, may put any agreements made now between Ireland and IAG is doubt... not as if the Irish government could regain its shareholding.


All in all DUB LHR is a very attractive route of significant scale. So it will be in place, we can be very sure about that. But it is Cork and Shannon that needs the assurances the most....


EI-BUD
Why would BA cut LHR-DUB? This is not about LHR slots, BA has more than it can handle with the takeover and closing of BD, hence the increase in its shorthaul holiday routes from there. AFAIK, this is because of a current shortage of suitable aircraft which, once resolved, should see the commencement of new BA longhaul routes.

Because of the shortage of rwy capacity at LHR, more UK airports are connected to AMS and DUB than to LHR, and consequently, EI and KL take a great deal of transfer pax that, given sufficient LHR rwy capacity and therefore sufficient links to smaller UK airports, could be BA’s.

Buying EI gives IAG an opportunity to grab some of this transfer traffic. Equally important, it prevents another carrier from doing so.

That is what IAG ownership of EI is really about, it’s not BD reheated.



This in my view can only be a positive development. Despite commentators on RTE explaining how the company has been profitable etc. the fact is that Ryanair is growing its point to point traffic, and the Aer Lingus needs to be part of something bigger.
Yes, this deal very much benefits EI. Also looking forward to EI’s return to the Oneworld Alliance.


This has to be good news for EI...in today's world, smaller airlines are struggling, and security comes from being part of a bigger group. EI is a well-run and profitable small airline, but to maintain that position will become more difficult against the consolidated big guys. Now, IAG can bring investment in a significant way...4 new transatlantic routes for a start. That has to be attractive. LHR will be secure, as FR and others will provide the competitive pressure. And I've always seen this move as IAG ensuring they have insurance against the lack of an R3 at LHR. They can now route north American TA business via either LHR or DUB and south American via LHR or MAD. If you live in Glasgow or Manchester, a BA / EI flight via DUB to JFK / BOS / SFO / IAD / YYZ / MCO etc. might be a tempting proposition...
Agree, it’s win-win all round. Also when it comes to new aircraft, being part of IAG can secure a better deal.

The LHR rwy issue has a bearing up to a point: expansion at DUB could be much bigger if (when?) the rwy doesn’t materialise.


BA1/3 taking on pax at Shannon! That'd be an interesting development.
Would be surprised if there were huge numbers queuing up for it.
Its a niche and very expensive route.
Pax joining/ leaving at SNN wouldn’t disrupt the schedule and wouldn't add to costs, so may as well do it, but it’s going to be a problem on the eastbound leg!

If EI moved their flights to T5, it would vastly improve the experience of connecting in Heathrow.
Had taken it for granted that this would happen! The common travel area arrivals channel is now set up there, and it would also make transfers a whole lot easier. Moreover, IB are also at LHR-5.
Fairdealfrank is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 22:03
  #2933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Yes they do, Ryanair have 30%, If they block it and convince 20% of shareholders not to sell (easy) then they have blocked it.

Also the EU courts have the ultimate decision.
If 50.0000001 % of shareholders block a takeover is blocked.

Nothing to do with a court as court cannot order a takeover.
racedo is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 22:32
  #2934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by racedo
If 50.0000001 % of shareholders block a takeover is blocked.
Cool.
That helps your argument, how?
Without Ryanair 30%, they can convince others not to sell and suddenly we have our 50%.

Nothing to do with a court as court cannot order a takeover.
No they can't order one, but they can certainly block it.
AerRyan is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 22:46
  #2935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why would BA cut LHR-DUB? This is not about LHR slots, BA has more than it can handle with the takeover and closing of BD, hence the increase in its shorthaul holiday routes from there. AFAIK, this is because of a current shortage of suitable aircraft which, once resolved, should see the commencement of new BA longhaul routes.

Because of the shortage of rwy capacity at LHR, more UK airports are connected to AMS and DUB than to LHR, and consequently, EI and KL take a great deal of transfer pax that, given sufficient LHR rwy capacity and therefore sufficient links to smaller UK airports, could be BA’s.

Buying EI gives IAG an opportunity to grab some of this transfer traffic. Equally important, it prevents another carrier from doing so.

That is what IAG ownership of EI is really about, it’s not BD reheated.
Fairdealfrank,
My point is that IAG can give assurances about lhr dub for Ei but they could cut it. You ask why would they? If the same number of passengers can be transported with less rotations spread equally across the day that better for the group. The shortage of slots would make 8 slots attractive as new long haul aircraft come on stream.

Iberia exited BCN LHR, and the 2 airlines consolidated their operations on the route... Granted Iberia were moving their focus to Madrid.

I'd Not like to see BA leaving dub lhr route but I'm simply saying that there is do much talk of securing the ei slots for Ireland, that there were never assurances sought about BA's rotations ex DUB to LHR...
EI-BUD is offline  
Old 27th May 2015, 22:56
  #2936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Cool.
That helps your argument, how?
Without Ryanair 30%, they can convince others not to sell and suddenly we have our 50%.
Up to bidding company to persuade majority of shareholders to accept bid.

If they can't persuade then clearly bid was not sufficient in the first place.

Shareholders have always a price just up to a bidder to meet it.
racedo is offline  
Old 28th May 2015, 16:50
  #2937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oneworld

"Yes, this deal very much benefits EI. Also looking forward to EI’s return to the Oneworld Alliance."

I'm not sure EI would join Oneworld if they were part of IAG. Vueling aren't in Oneworld are they?
riptack is offline  
Old 28th May 2015, 16:55
  #2938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK & Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
IAG said they would rejoin.
j636 is offline  
Old 28th May 2015, 20:51
  #2939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fairdealfrank,
My point is that IAG can give assurances about lhr dub for Ei but they could cut it. You ask why would they? If the same number of passengers can be transported with less rotations spread equally across the day that better for the group. The shortage of slots would make 8 slots attractive as new long haul aircraft come on stream.
With the takeover and closing of BD by IAG, there is no shortage of slots at LHR for BA , so let‘s knock that particular bit of misinformation on the head.

Business travel requires frequency, so it is unlikely except in the circumstance outlined earlier (a BA and an EI flight leaving at the same time or in close proximity).

Iberia exited BCN LHR, and the 2 airlines consolidated their operations on the route... Granted Iberia were moving their focus to Madrid.
But BA and IB still on LHR-MAD.

I'd Not like to see BA leaving dub lhr route but I'm simply saying that there is do much talk of securing the ei slots for Ireland, that there were never assurances sought about BA's rotations ex DUB to LHR...
Because it's not an issue. If LHR-DUB was a loss maker, BA would not have replaced BD on the route. Check it out: the loss-making BD routes were soon scrapped.

I'm not sure EI would join Oneworld if they were part of IAG. Vueling aren't in Oneworld are they?
But BA and IB are. With all that potential connecting traffic, it would be very silly for EI not to rejoin Oneworld.

EI and VY are hardly the same!
Fairdealfrank is offline  
Old 28th May 2015, 21:41
  #2940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
With the takeover and closing of BD by IAG, there is no shortage of slots at LHR for BA , so let‘s knock that particular bit of misinformation on the head.


Fairdealfrank,
I don't think it is misinformation, but thanks. So if BA want to launch a new route where do the slots come from, this statement would suggest that there are slots available? They clearly are using all slots at the moment?


My view is not any less valid than yours. With both airlines being part of the same organisation, my view is that it is completely plausible as it was between 1991 and 2012, that EI was the BA feeder ex Dublin, and BA not serving the route. Fewer flights with larger aircraft is completely workable, i.e. 321's across say 17/18 services offering the same capacity apart from freeing up slots (which you say they are not short of if required), is lower cost and more efficient way of using resources. Couple that with BA not having a base in Dublin could make the business case stronger. This is a scenario that I see as realistic, though I hope it is not.


But BA and IB still on LHR-MAD.


Yes this is correct, but I was citing BCN as an example of where BA have moved to an exclusing position. I think BA would have a far greater interesting in being part of LHR MAD in order to access a market that they do not currently serve as comprehensively as IB, i.e. south America. BA service to Dublin will aim to feed passengers to the US as almost all of the destinations are duplicates and as I said earlier, when BA vacated ROI, EI filled the space excellently codeshares in place via London.


Because it's not an issue. If LHR-DUB was a loss maker, BA would not have replaced BD on the route. Check it out: the loss-making BD routes were soon scrapped.


I am not suggesting for a second that DUB LHR is a loss maker for BA, I am simply expressing that efficiencies to be achieved by consolidating their position, less flights, bigger aircraft , i.e. 321s rather than 319s and broadly gain the same capacity still at very regular frequencies.


In a position where IAG owns both carriers, there certainly are economies to be achieves, and equally on BHD LHR where loads a far from high, often only in the 60%'s, there is case that EI could be done without or BA for that matter, doesn't mean that either carriers are losing money. There is a commercial logic in rationalising the operation, as has been the case on BCN LHR....




PS DONT KNOW WHY THE QUOTATION BOX NOT WORKING!

Last edited by EI-BUD; 28th May 2015 at 21:41. Reason: typo
EI-BUD is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.