Aer Lingus - 6
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If slots must be given because of competition then it's likely BA will have to give them up and not take them out of EIs pairs
LCY-DUB CFE / WX / BE
LGW/STN/LTN-DUB FR
in the market, none of 'em are likely to want to have a wee go out of LHR. There's not much of a case for making anyone give up slot pairs. In terms of making sure ORK/SNN have access to LHR, genuine question, is it really so difficult to get to DUB and fly from there direct with a US carrier or the ME3?
Very contentious I know, not trying to provoke an argument, keen to know.
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BA (nor EI) won't be forced to give up LHR slots by default.
What will probably happen (based on precedent set by IAG's purchase of bmi) is BA/EI will have to surrender a set number of slots (say six pairs) to any willing entrant on LHR-DUB (ditto for Belfast).
Based on the experience of Little Red, it's unlikely that an entrant will be forthcoming.
I don't buy the idea that IAG will slash connectivity between Ireland and the UK.
One of the first things IAG will do is, as soon as regulatory approval allows, put the EI code on every BA long-haul route. And vice versa. Ditto for Iberia at MAD.
Also don't forget that EI will gain a very strong transatlantic partner in the form of AA so I expect AA will increase its flights to DUB above existing services. AA also has a huge hub at MIA and DFW (and to a lesser extent LAX) so there's plenty of scope for EI to add destinations in the US.
What will probably happen (based on precedent set by IAG's purchase of bmi) is BA/EI will have to surrender a set number of slots (say six pairs) to any willing entrant on LHR-DUB (ditto for Belfast).
Based on the experience of Little Red, it's unlikely that an entrant will be forthcoming.
I don't buy the idea that IAG will slash connectivity between Ireland and the UK.
One of the first things IAG will do is, as soon as regulatory approval allows, put the EI code on every BA long-haul route. And vice versa. Ditto for Iberia at MAD.
Also don't forget that EI will gain a very strong transatlantic partner in the form of AA so I expect AA will increase its flights to DUB above existing services. AA also has a huge hub at MIA and DFW (and to a lesser extent LAX) so there's plenty of scope for EI to add destinations in the US.
I really hope that the Irish government will veto any sell off.
Aer Lingus is beginning to recover; such recovery should be encouraged.
ba is only after more landing slots at London Airport and has zero interest in flights to Ireland.
Aer Lingus is beginning to recover; such recovery should be encouraged.
ba is only after more landing slots at London Airport and has zero interest in flights to Ireland.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Aren't Aer lingus the dominant carrier on the route? Not sure why you think it's the British carrier who will be forced to surrender slots. Given the huge competition with the carriers below :
LCY-DUB CFE / WX / BE
LGW/STN/LTN-DUB FR
in the market, none of 'em are likely to want to have a wee go out of LHR. There's not much of a case for making anyone give up slot pairs. In terms of making sure ORK/SNN have access to LHR, genuine question, is it really so difficult to get to DUB and fly from there direct with a US carrier or the ME3?
Very contentious I know, not trying to provoke an argument, keen to know.
LCY-DUB CFE / WX / BE
LGW/STN/LTN-DUB FR
in the market, none of 'em are likely to want to have a wee go out of LHR. There's not much of a case for making anyone give up slot pairs. In terms of making sure ORK/SNN have access to LHR, genuine question, is it really so difficult to get to DUB and fly from there direct with a US carrier or the ME3?
Very contentious I know, not trying to provoke an argument, keen to know.
As for LHR generally, very overrated saw recent stat that around 2/3 of traffic from ROI is point to point. As for traveling to fly ex DUB, it is very expensive to fly T/A from DUB compared to London however an argument could be made if capacity was boosted it would help on that front.
FR have said they would likely take on LHR if they were forced to give up slots.
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BBC News - Aer Lingus 'to accept' bid from British Airways owner IAG
Aer Lingus 'to accept' bid from British Airways owner IAG
Aer Lingus 'to accept' bid from British Airways owner IAG
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Getting this over the line will be very difficult.
If slots must be given because of competition then it's likely BA will have to give them up and not take them out of EIs pairs and many other problems will need to be addressed.
If slots must be given because of competition then it's likely BA will have to give them up and not take them out of EIs pairs and many other problems will need to be addressed.
BA (nor EI) won't be forced to give up LHR slots by default.
What will probably happen (based on precedent set by IAG's purchase of bmi) is BA/EI will have to surrender a set number of slots (say six pairs) to any willing entrant on LHR-DUB (ditto for Belfast).
Based on the experience of Little Red, it's unlikely that an entrant will be forthcoming.
I don't buy the idea that IAG will slash connectivity between Ireland and the UK.
What will probably happen (based on precedent set by IAG's purchase of bmi) is BA/EI will have to surrender a set number of slots (say six pairs) to any willing entrant on LHR-DUB (ditto for Belfast).
Based on the experience of Little Red, it's unlikely that an entrant will be forthcoming.
I don't buy the idea that IAG will slash connectivity between Ireland and the UK.
One of the first things IAG will do is, as soon as regulatory approval allows, put the EI code on every BA long-haul route. And vice versa. Ditto for Iberia at MAD.
FR have said they would likely take on LHR if they were forced to give up slots.
That is believable: too many delays at Heathrow, both landing and takeoff; taxi times are too long; 25 minute turnarounds are not possible; no dedicated "no frills" terminal; contact gates have to be used (mostly).
Doesn't fit the FR model: FR doesn't make money with its aircraft stuck on the ground, so don't believe it for a minute.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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FR has also said that it will never operate flights to/from Heathrow, Paris De Gaulle and Frankfurt.
That is believable: too many delays at Heathrow, both landing and takeoff; taxi times are too long; 25 minute turnarounds are not possible; no dedicated "no frills" terminal; contact gates have to be used (mostly).
Doesn't fit the FR model: FR doesn't make money with its aircraft stuck on the ground, so don't believe it for a minute.
That is believable: too many delays at Heathrow, both landing and takeoff; taxi times are too long; 25 minute turnarounds are not possible; no dedicated "no frills" terminal; contact gates have to be used (mostly).
Doesn't fit the FR model: FR doesn't make money with its aircraft stuck on the ground, so don't believe it for a minute.
As for turnaround etc, 25 minutes has turned in 35 minutes for many routes and if EI have a reasonable good OTP then FR could have the same and they only allow 40. On their DUB-BRU route they have a 70 minute turnaround in the mornings for slot reasons. Don't see them dropped that any time soon...
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Lifejackets at the ready?
I presume by now that the great employees of Ireland's State airline may have braced themselves for the impending visits to the Jobcentre?
Once this deal is through, the surplus employees will be jettisoned, the best of the 'frames may be retained if they can be used in IAG mode and it will be shades of Dan-Air all over again.
It was a most unpleasant experience and I sympathise with anyone who will be negatively affected by BIGCORP on the prowl, eating and destroying anything it regards as a tasty morsel.
Anyone not recognising this behaviour please read "The Corporation", it may be out of print but copies can be obtained. Small compensation to understand what has/will happen.
Once this deal is through, the surplus employees will be jettisoned, the best of the 'frames may be retained if they can be used in IAG mode and it will be shades of Dan-Air all over again.
It was a most unpleasant experience and I sympathise with anyone who will be negatively affected by BIGCORP on the prowl, eating and destroying anything it regards as a tasty morsel.
Anyone not recognising this behaviour please read "The Corporation", it may be out of print but copies can be obtained. Small compensation to understand what has/will happen.
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There will inevitably job losses. These will be in back office functions such as IT and procurement as IAG is moving to a "shared services" platform. I think a lot of BA's IT department moved to IAG some time ago.
However, on the flipside, if IAG expands EI and DUB there will be new jobs created for front line staff.
However, on the flipside, if IAG expands EI and DUB there will be new jobs created for front line staff.
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However, on the flipside, if IAG expands EI and DUB there will be new jobs created for front line staff.
Paxing All Over The World
In a mature economy, such as Europe, the only way to increase 'shareholder value' 
is to acquire another company. After you have squeezed the juice out of it, then you move on.
Boys always like to have the biggest toys in the yard and the biggest bonus'. Nowadays, that means acquistion because there is no more space for natural growth. You can only expand if you force another to contract.
EI makes sense for IAG and they will already have others on their target list. Whether they are able to grow further, remains to be seen.
is to acquire another company. After you have squeezed the juice out of it, then you move on.Boys always like to have the biggest toys in the yard and the biggest bonus'. Nowadays, that means acquistion because there is no more space for natural growth. You can only expand if you force another to contract.
EI makes sense for IAG and they will already have others on their target list. Whether they are able to grow further, remains to be seen.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Must confess when IAG got hold of EI, I thought they would actually slash direct EI US flights and route everybody via London ?
Why duplicate out of DUB if you don't have to ?
Surely that's the effect of hubbing thru LHR and using economies of scale for partner airlines.
My understanding is that fares Ex DUB are extortionate whilst the sub fares from UK are Ironically cheap. Paradox is having a lot of traffic routing back thru LHR already.
It does seem odd that the Irish Government seem more interested in protecting the Irish routes to DUB than the transatlantic network. Maybe they know something.
Why duplicate out of DUB if you don't have to ?
Surely that's the effect of hubbing thru LHR and using economies of scale for partner airlines.
My understanding is that fares Ex DUB are extortionate whilst the sub fares from UK are Ironically cheap. Paradox is having a lot of traffic routing back thru LHR already.
It does seem odd that the Irish Government seem more interested in protecting the Irish routes to DUB than the transatlantic network. Maybe they know something.
Bagso
Doesn't really surprise me. Aside the undeniable benefits of inbound US tourists (who believe they are Irish and want to meet the ancestors) Ireland is a full member of the EU, and as such need to retain direct connections with it's chief trading partners who are, historically, the UK and then the rest of the EU.
The (political and business) fear must surely be that an IAG takeover will result in less competition on the point to point DUB/LON market, and diminishing direct flights (by EI) between Dublin and main European business centres, should IAG look to hub Irish passengers through LHR.
Of course, should this happen, the likes of KL / AF / LH and of course Ryanair will step in to fill the breach Ireland's image (through EI) wouldn't be being projected through the "national" carrier.
There are a lot of politics going to be involved here, no doubt.
It does seem odd that the Irish Government seem more interested in protecting the Irish routes to DUB than the transatlantic network.
The (political and business) fear must surely be that an IAG takeover will result in less competition on the point to point DUB/LON market, and diminishing direct flights (by EI) between Dublin and main European business centres, should IAG look to hub Irish passengers through LHR.
Of course, should this happen, the likes of KL / AF / LH and of course Ryanair will step in to fill the breach Ireland's image (through EI) wouldn't be being projected through the "national" carrier.
There are a lot of politics going to be involved here, no doubt.
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should IAG look to hub Irish passengers through LHR.
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Dublin hub
It would make no sence to direct passengers through Heathrow as Heathrow is full...
I would expect that due to Heathrow being full they will look at expanding Dublin and maybe route a few more via Dublin so that they can open new routes from Heathrow...????
If they pulled the routes from Dublin I'm sure another airline will just come and take over the routes to serve the pax already using Dublin as a hub
I would expect that due to Heathrow being full they will look at expanding Dublin and maybe route a few more via Dublin so that they can open new routes from Heathrow...????
If they pulled the routes from Dublin I'm sure another airline will just come and take over the routes to serve the pax already using Dublin as a hub
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Understandably there is huge speculation about what IAG would do with EI's operation, e.g. curtail the scale of US routes and channel through London.
IAG clearly are interested in EI, and the future viability of EI operations are through an increased transatlantic operation at Dublin which will ensure that the short haul operation is sustainable, which Ryanair is all over and will be more so in future.
Moving away from the core strenght and profit generator that is North America would spell doom for EI, and leave it completely exposed to Ryanairs point to point business.
There is a much bigger world outside of EI and if IAG want to secure EI to drive their London TA business etc. there are lots of other carriers who will fill the voids ex Dublin.
EI-BUD
IAG clearly are interested in EI, and the future viability of EI operations are through an increased transatlantic operation at Dublin which will ensure that the short haul operation is sustainable, which Ryanair is all over and will be more so in future.
Moving away from the core strenght and profit generator that is North America would spell doom for EI, and leave it completely exposed to Ryanairs point to point business.
There is a much bigger world outside of EI and if IAG want to secure EI to drive their London TA business etc. there are lots of other carriers who will fill the voids ex Dublin.
EI-BUD
BA route their TA traffic through Heathrow, that's their model. If the airline wanted to open a new TA base then Gatwick, Manchester and Birmingham all have greater catchment areas than Dublin (and that's even if you included most of the island of Ireland as DUB's catchment).
Yes, Heathrow runway capacity is pretty full at present, so how does an airline grab more of that capacity? ... by exactly doing what BA did to BMI, buy a competitor with some and then remove then, you get the triple whammy of removing a competitor, grabbing their asset and potentially taking much of their custom in the process.
TBH, I can't see any upside for EI in being rolled into the IAG fold. EI isn't the worlds biggest or most profitable airline, but they're doing OK and the prospects look good. Ryanair are probably happy to sell, the Irish Government under some pressure to do so, but with the official data saying the economy is doing OK, the State isn't in any rush. Etihad,the 3rd largest holder with about 4% might not be in a huge rush to enter the race given the drop in oil revenues, but a second bidder may well bide their time to see at what price the board recommends acceptace.
Eitherway, IMHO, FR won't be too upset to offload their holding at a good price, especially if a new owner is happy see underinvestment in EI's profitable routes.
JAS
Yes, Heathrow runway capacity is pretty full at present, so how does an airline grab more of that capacity? ... by exactly doing what BA did to BMI, buy a competitor with some and then remove then, you get the triple whammy of removing a competitor, grabbing their asset and potentially taking much of their custom in the process.
TBH, I can't see any upside for EI in being rolled into the IAG fold. EI isn't the worlds biggest or most profitable airline, but they're doing OK and the prospects look good. Ryanair are probably happy to sell, the Irish Government under some pressure to do so, but with the official data saying the economy is doing OK, the State isn't in any rush. Etihad,the 3rd largest holder with about 4% might not be in a huge rush to enter the race given the drop in oil revenues, but a second bidder may well bide their time to see at what price the board recommends acceptace.
Eitherway, IMHO, FR won't be too upset to offload their holding at a good price, especially if a new owner is happy see underinvestment in EI's profitable routes.
JAS
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Why would IAG spend well over a billion Euros buying an airline to only shrink it?
It would be utterly irrational. Aer Lingus' current transatlantic network is far too small to be considered such a threat to BA that IAG feels the need to neuter it.
IAG will grow Aer Lingus, provided it can do so profitably. All IAG airlines are currently in a phase of growth. Indeed, Iberia has today announced the return of flights to Havana and new routes to Cali and Medellin. It wasn't that long ago people were claiming IAG was engaged in a vast conspiracy to shrink Iberia in order to prop up BA.
It would be utterly irrational. Aer Lingus' current transatlantic network is far too small to be considered such a threat to BA that IAG feels the need to neuter it.
IAG will grow Aer Lingus, provided it can do so profitably. All IAG airlines are currently in a phase of growth. Indeed, Iberia has today announced the return of flights to Havana and new routes to Cali and Medellin. It wasn't that long ago people were claiming IAG was engaged in a vast conspiracy to shrink Iberia in order to prop up BA.