CARDIFF - 2
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Yes I agree, but BRS managed to secure Continental and New York last time....yes it was a B757 compared to what the Gulf carriers operate but you can never under estimate BRS lately.
Hope they get the full backing of the Welsh Government as ideal for those customers travelling to the Middle East, Far East and Australia/New Zealand and saves changing at Amsterdam or Paris and will definitely save the drive to LHR
Hope they get the full backing of the Welsh Government as ideal for those customers travelling to the Middle East, Far East and Australia/New Zealand and saves changing at Amsterdam or Paris and will definitely save the drive to LHR
Join Date: Apr 2013
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And now the Conservative Party have won the General Election, let's hope they stick to their word and give the air tax powers to the Welsh Government so Cardiff Airport can really gain the benefits.......
This news could help secure future long haul flights which CWL need.
This news could help secure future long haul flights which CWL need.
Brunel to Concorde
Join Date: Mar 2003
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APDD
I don't think that Cameron went that far. When visiting Wales on 27 February he is quoted as saying that the UK government, "will consider (my emphasis) the case and options for devolving further powers to the Assembly over Air Passenger Duty (APD), informed by a review of potential options to mitigate the impacts of APD devolution on regional airports".
Live updates as David Cameron and Nick Clegg make new powers pledge for the National Assembly in Cardiff - Wales Online
My view is that unfettered devolution of APD powers to Wales would have been more likely with a Labour Government relying on the support of the SNP and Plaid Cymru, although that's not to say it won't happen with the new Conservative government.
Live updates as David Cameron and Nick Clegg make new powers pledge for the National Assembly in Cardiff - Wales Online
My view is that unfettered devolution of APD powers to Wales would have been more likely with a Labour Government relying on the support of the SNP and Plaid Cymru, although that's not to say it won't happen with the new Conservative government.
Join Date: Apr 2012
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I believe that now as a result of this election, Scotland will see more devolution pretty quickly with the large SNP influence in the Commons.
As for Wales, I can see APD being devolved among other relatively small scale duties etc. Devolving long haul APD at the moment probably has a very small income, so devolving it and effectively zeroing this tax in Wales will have a very minimal impact on the WAG's budget, whilst making CWL more attractive for those long haul carriers that wish to fly here.
IF (emphasis on 'if') APD was devolved to Wales on long haul flights, i think we would see a pretty instant return by TOM and perhaps another, whilst strengthening the case of a NYC route, despite the fact that BRS are 'very close' to getting one. Also, the CWL team have been in Dubai this week promoting Wales along with Visit Wales to the Arabian Travel Market, notably the only UK Airport to do so. The stature of this event should not be underestimated since all the MEB3 are present, along with potential visitors and would be users of any route offered to that region of the world. A great networking opportunity, and from what rhetoric has been passed around in recent months with regard to a route to that region, I would never say never ...
As for Wales, I can see APD being devolved among other relatively small scale duties etc. Devolving long haul APD at the moment probably has a very small income, so devolving it and effectively zeroing this tax in Wales will have a very minimal impact on the WAG's budget, whilst making CWL more attractive for those long haul carriers that wish to fly here.
IF (emphasis on 'if') APD was devolved to Wales on long haul flights, i think we would see a pretty instant return by TOM and perhaps another, whilst strengthening the case of a NYC route, despite the fact that BRS are 'very close' to getting one. Also, the CWL team have been in Dubai this week promoting Wales along with Visit Wales to the Arabian Travel Market, notably the only UK Airport to do so. The stature of this event should not be underestimated since all the MEB3 are present, along with potential visitors and would be users of any route offered to that region of the world. A great networking opportunity, and from what rhetoric has been passed around in recent months with regard to a route to that region, I would never say never ...
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Yes totally agree, hope that is the case. Especially with the CWL team in talks this week with QR, EK and EY.
If the tax is removed then long haul charters would surely return with TOM and quite possibly TCX.
CWL are also in talks about the NYC route along with BRS and this could be used to sway the vote in CWL's favour.....to the anger of BRS who totally against the powers going to the Welsh Government.
Time will tell I suppose....fingers crossed for CWL......if it happens for Scotland then only fair it happens for Wales and Northern Ireland too
If the tax is removed then long haul charters would surely return with TOM and quite possibly TCX.
CWL are also in talks about the NYC route along with BRS and this could be used to sway the vote in CWL's favour.....to the anger of BRS who totally against the powers going to the Welsh Government.
Time will tell I suppose....fingers crossed for CWL......if it happens for Scotland then only fair it happens for Wales and Northern Ireland too
Brunel to Concorde
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APD
I follow your argument that what is fair for Scotland is fair for Wales and Northern Ireland. So is it fair for England to remain under the yoke of the Westminster parliament for such matters where Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPS would have a say on English APD, where the rates would remain draconian, as well as on many other purely English issues?
That's the rub and a tricky conundrum for the new government to ponder.
If the Wales Assembly Government was given APD powers and reduced the rate to zero and it did lead to long haul (and possibly other services) starting at CWL when they might (on a level playing field) have gone to BRS, and even some current services moving across the estuary, the additional jobs created in Wales would obviously be a boon to the Principality. The jobs lost in the West of England would attract the opposite reaction there.
Most politicians and governments aren't interested in fairness, only expediency. Apart from three Labour-held constituencies in the middle of Bristol the entire BRS core catchment and well beyond is a sea of blue in political terms. The new government will be wary of upsetting their new power base in South West England that was a Lib Dem stronghold until this week.
So APD devolution to the Wales Assembly Government might not be the tick box that some seem to believe.
That's the rub and a tricky conundrum for the new government to ponder.
If the Wales Assembly Government was given APD powers and reduced the rate to zero and it did lead to long haul (and possibly other services) starting at CWL when they might (on a level playing field) have gone to BRS, and even some current services moving across the estuary, the additional jobs created in Wales would obviously be a boon to the Principality. The jobs lost in the West of England would attract the opposite reaction there.
Most politicians and governments aren't interested in fairness, only expediency. Apart from three Labour-held constituencies in the middle of Bristol the entire BRS core catchment and well beyond is a sea of blue in political terms. The new government will be wary of upsetting their new power base in South West England that was a Lib Dem stronghold until this week.
So APD devolution to the Wales Assembly Government might not be the tick box that some seem to believe.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The new government will be wary of upsetting their new power base in South West England that was a Lib Dem stronghold until this week.
.[/QUOTE]
Why would devolving APD to Wales and the WAG reducing it to zero upset the people of the southwest. Surely they would be pleased that they could fly long haul cheaper out of Cardiff.
.[/QUOTE]
Why would devolving APD to Wales and the WAG reducing it to zero upset the people of the southwest. Surely they would be pleased that they could fly long haul cheaper out of Cardiff.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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This is the same old "fool's gold" argument. Bristol's success is based on low cost airlines. It is not based on legacy carriers. Cardiff's management should be looking to copy that model, rather than trying to capture one "prize" route to DXB. APD is only one of many issues that a carrier will look at. The reality is that the BRS covers a wide economically affluent area, whereas once you step outside of Cardiff there is a marked decline in affluence. You can get to LHR from Bristol almost as quickly as you can get to CWL. Why then would I travel to CWL to catch a plane when there is so much direct route choice and competition on cost in the opposite direction? After 2017 when the line is electrified the journey will be effortless, with ultimately direct trains from Bristol to Heathrow. BRS got the NY route at a time when Continental had no access to LHR, but as soon as they did they left. Quite how people think CWL is going to support daily a A330 or B777 when it struggles to support links to Scotland and Paris I don't know. The lack of APD may encourage the charter operators because that would have a greater attraction to passengers in the South West to avoid the longer trip to LGW. Regional airports have thrived due to Lo-Co operators. CWL missed a trick when they fell out with Ryanair. If they hadn't, they may have had a Lo-Co to rival Bristol. BRS management understand the limitations of not only the site, but their customer base. Consequently they have methodically built up a good network. I would rather have an airport with a comprehensive European network than one with a single "prize" route. As always I wish CWL well and it is a shame to see what years of mis-managent and political interference has done. They need solid route foundations not fool's gold built on sand.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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bristolflyer shares some very good points. However I think CWL is currently going after whatever they can get.
EZY won't be interested, and I'm guessing by the 1 weekly service still going from FR that there's not much likely to come of that either. FR have just got their feet back under the table at BRS with more based aircraft.
BRS are very clever in not creating too much competition on routes. I'm sure if FR could they would try and wipe out EZY and create a huge price war, where the only winners would be the passengers. EZY are continuing to expand and offer a wide range of routes, some of which you'd only expect to see at larger airports. I have no doubt that there will be more to come.
How can CWL possibly compete with that by concentrating on getting a lo-co?
VY continue at a stagnant level at CWL, but I'm guessing as they are, the routes are profitable. The issue here is, how many Welsh passengers are still flying from BRS on routes offered by CWL and VY. I can bet there's a hell of a lot. CWL needs to win those passengers back and get them on VY services. But when you look at VY's prices, they don't always compare to that of prices from BRS. So for VY, why add extra services and drop prices and risk yield? I have no doubt that VY could support at least 1 more flight a week to ALC and AGP.
BE are back and competing mainly it seems with BM routes. Again, BRS is the biggest base for BM and is continuing to grow. BM offer to different markets than EZY/FR.
CWL is going after long haul, because its the advantage it has over BRS. If 1m+ Welsh passengers use BRS every year, why can't a portion of Southwest passengers use CWL? Speak to anyone that flies from LHR and majority will try to avoid it if they can. That's why EK/KL/EI does so well. Quite often people will choose connections over LHR to avoid it.
I also agree in that CWL has potential to get long haul charters back.
EZY won't be interested, and I'm guessing by the 1 weekly service still going from FR that there's not much likely to come of that either. FR have just got their feet back under the table at BRS with more based aircraft.
BRS are very clever in not creating too much competition on routes. I'm sure if FR could they would try and wipe out EZY and create a huge price war, where the only winners would be the passengers. EZY are continuing to expand and offer a wide range of routes, some of which you'd only expect to see at larger airports. I have no doubt that there will be more to come.
How can CWL possibly compete with that by concentrating on getting a lo-co?
VY continue at a stagnant level at CWL, but I'm guessing as they are, the routes are profitable. The issue here is, how many Welsh passengers are still flying from BRS on routes offered by CWL and VY. I can bet there's a hell of a lot. CWL needs to win those passengers back and get them on VY services. But when you look at VY's prices, they don't always compare to that of prices from BRS. So for VY, why add extra services and drop prices and risk yield? I have no doubt that VY could support at least 1 more flight a week to ALC and AGP.
BE are back and competing mainly it seems with BM routes. Again, BRS is the biggest base for BM and is continuing to grow. BM offer to different markets than EZY/FR.
CWL is going after long haul, because its the advantage it has over BRS. If 1m+ Welsh passengers use BRS every year, why can't a portion of Southwest passengers use CWL? Speak to anyone that flies from LHR and majority will try to avoid it if they can. That's why EK/KL/EI does so well. Quite often people will choose connections over LHR to avoid it.
I also agree in that CWL has potential to get long haul charters back.
Brunel to Concorde
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APD
The new government will be wary of upsetting their new power base in South West England that was a Lib Dem stronghold until this week.
Why would devolving APD to Wales and the WAG reducing it to zero upset the people of the southwest. Surely they would be pleased that they could fly long haul cheaper out of Cardiff.
Why would devolving APD to Wales and the WAG reducing it to zero upset the people of the southwest. Surely they would be pleased that they could fly long haul cheaper out of Cardiff.
Indeed, a lot of people from Somerset and Gloucestershire would appreciate decent fares to Dubai and the like without needing to go to LHR
Ergo, any government action that might adversely affect BRS is likely to attract similar opposition from MPs in that area, most of whom are now members of the Westminster Government’s party.
Look at the disquiet felt by elected representative in the North East of England vis-a-vis the proposed devolution of APD to Scotland and its possible effects on NCL.
Any contraction of an airport will always be seen by many as a threat to the health of the local economy with the spectre of job losses - whether it is always that much of a threat might sometimes be arguable.
If APD was devolved to Wales and BRS was likely to suffer because it might lose routes/services or not get some it might otherwise have done then that would certainly not be viewed in a favourable light by most West Country MPs, not to mention many local authority representatives and business and industry leaders.
No doubt some West Country travellers would be pleased to travel a bit cheaper on long haul even if it meant flying from a neighbouring airport, but they would be even more pleased if government action allowed them to fly less expensively from their own local airport.
But this was not the point I was trying to make in my previous post. It was that the Westminster Conservative Government is likely to face serious opposition from it own West Country MPs if it devolves APD to Wales without trying to mitigate the effects on BRS. I have no idea how such mitigation could be achieved.
I don’t fly much on short haul at all now as I once did. Flying no longer holds any pleasure for me (and even less for my wife) when getting there by air was once considered by us to be an enjoyable part of any holiday. My wife and I do fly to Australia every year for family reasons and we don’t find getting to Birmingham or London from the Bristol area to reach an Emirates service any chore at all. If CWL did get itself an MEB3 start-up we would certainly be very interested to see what was on offer.
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I think the biggest thing in this election was rise of English nationalism through UKIP and to a lesser extent the Tories (English votes on English matters).
I suspect that APD won't be devolved, especially when you've got MPs like Liam Fox in the SW England region who is quite happy to do a bit of rabble rousing. He may or may not like the airport but he'll respond to people complaining about Wales getting beneficial treatment (there's already grumblings about this in the border areas).
If Wales does get APD then money might be magiced from somewhere to pay for something like making the A38 a dual carriageway, which when coupled with the southern distributor will make BRS a lot easier to get to.
There might also be an element of becareful what you wish for, Wales will get APD powers, but any tax cuts will need to be fully paid for by Wales (i.e. not made-up via the Barnett formula) either through spending cuts or raising other taxes. The real sting in the tail would be the shortfall being calculated based on the hypothetical APD that would have been raised - so as the airport gets more popular more tax revenue is lost and has to be made-up for elsewhere.
I suspect that APD won't be devolved, especially when you've got MPs like Liam Fox in the SW England region who is quite happy to do a bit of rabble rousing. He may or may not like the airport but he'll respond to people complaining about Wales getting beneficial treatment (there's already grumblings about this in the border areas).
If Wales does get APD then money might be magiced from somewhere to pay for something like making the A38 a dual carriageway, which when coupled with the southern distributor will make BRS a lot easier to get to.
There might also be an element of becareful what you wish for, Wales will get APD powers, but any tax cuts will need to be fully paid for by Wales (i.e. not made-up via the Barnett formula) either through spending cuts or raising other taxes. The real sting in the tail would be the shortfall being calculated based on the hypothetical APD that would have been raised - so as the airport gets more popular more tax revenue is lost and has to be made-up for elsewhere.
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Jobs and ADP are a bit of a red herring to me. The vast majority of BRS traffic on EZY and FR is pleasure, save for perhaps Edinburgh and Glasgow with the strong connection with very large HBOS and RBS offices in Bristol. Aside from that I can't see how sunshine and stag routes support jobs in either Wales or the West Country. The old CO service did have more business traffic, but there was still more pleasure than business. One of the problems CO faced was that whilst economy was often close to full, business class rarely was. Therefore yield wasn't great. To make these services work the airline needs people flying up front in solid numbers. I don't understand why APD isn't removed for every regional airport and simply reserved for LHR. That's where airlines are prepared to pay a premium to operate. Removing it regionally would be a driver of growth, especially in the North. If Osbourne is serious about his economic powerhouse proposal this would be an excellent demonstration of intent.
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Still a long way to go and certainly on the wish list but good to Thomas Cook testing the long haul market next year.
CWL-CUN one off flight next year announced so far.
Good to see a small sign with regards to long haul flights & hopefully there will be an increase including the TCX flights to MCO.
CWL-CUN one off flight next year announced so far.
Good to see a small sign with regards to long haul flights & hopefully there will be an increase including the TCX flights to MCO.
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Are CityJet planning a return of the CWL-JER flights ? I've just been on WX webpage and it's showing CWL-JER as one of their routes but no flights listed to book.
This was previously removed from the booking search engine when they stopped last year and was not on there last month when I booked a Paris flight.
It also says 5 flights a week on the webpage.
This was previously removed from the booking search engine when they stopped last year and was not on there last month when I booked a Paris flight.
It also says 5 flights a week on the webpage.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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CItyjet close EDI and ORY from 30 June blaming Cardiff Airport for backing Flybe.
Management better hope flybe are around for the long haul as if they go nobody will come in as there is nobody left....
Management better hope flybe are around for the long haul as if they go nobody will come in as there is nobody left....
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CItyjet close EDI and ORY from 30 June blaming Cardiff Airport for backing Flybe.
Management better hope flybe are around for the long haul as if they go nobody will come in as there is nobody left....
Did the management at Cardiff really not see this one coming, introducing competition when routes are fragile is totally the wrong direction. I really hope for Cardiff's sake that flyBE stick around and build passenger numbers as promised.
Management better hope flybe are around for the long haul as if they go nobody will come in as there is nobody left....
Did the management at Cardiff really not see this one coming, introducing competition when routes are fragile is totally the wrong direction. I really hope for Cardiff's sake that flyBE stick around and build passenger numbers as promised.