CARDIFF - 2

[Phileas Fogg]

Oh, by the way Ben,

Anytime I like I can register a domain, including 12 months web hosting and 10 email addresses, for 70p.

You spent £52.00 .... What do you reckon the chances are of anyone forking out umpteens of millions on anything you say?

[JSCL]

70p? I pay £180/year for that stuff! Unlimited email addresses too!

[mathers_wales_uk]

It all depends on how Cardiff Airport records their figures if it is based on outbound or inbound.

The UPS service operated by Farnair sends freight outbound only
The Royal Mail service operated by Atlantic Airlines with inbound mail only

But certainly overall the movement of freight/mail would have increased in 2011 compared to 2010 in general.

[caaardiff]

I didnt get the yield information, but I can tell you that my friend was aboard a TCX flight coming back from AYT a week or two ago, and he said that the plane was half empty. With such a low load factor I think it would be impossible to get a tidy yield from that !
Also, it is all over news articles that Thomas Cook Airlines are restructuring and re-organizing their Uk operations.

TCX at different times during the year use the aircraft in Glasgow during the Scottish Peak holidays.
The past few weeks the aircraft positioned to GLA, operated the outbound flight then came direct back to CWL with pax on board, and vice versa later on - operated out of with CWL pax then back to GLA with pax and pos back to CWL. This may have something to do with the low load factor on your flight, as it may be only bringing a weeks worth of pax back once it started back up again.

Discussed on this forum, post 156
And here..
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...t-flights.html

Just because it was half full, doesn't automatically mean the aircraft is not making money. Sending the aircraft to GLA must make TCX a packet during the school holidays, and its not just CWL's aircraft that is used and flying back to the UK "half empty" at some point.
I once started off on here as fairly new to the industry and eager to learn. I sat back, watched the educated replies of some posters and took note. I'm hardly an aviation expert, but some people may need to do the same, as its constantly the same over ambitious and potentially damaging rumours and "assumptions" that keep cropping up.

[GROUNDHOG]

Listen wannabees tell you what why not arrange for a few people who have been there and done it to come over and give you a lecture and face to face meet to discuss the truth about how business plans are written, finance encouraged then airlines started, marketing, etc etc

It would be better to pay some of us oldies for a few hours than keep spending your time and money chasing shadows and dreams.

And when you are told things from those that have been in the Industry for decades for Gods sake LISTEN TO WHAT YOU ARE BEING TOLD AND DON'T SHOUT IT DOWN BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

I really am trying to be helpful............

[USE THE RUDDERS]

I will be flying out of Cardiff on Sat night with TCX so will share my experience at a later date.

As a Bristolian who has lived in Cardiff for the past 6 years I find the banter rather amusing and have used both airports in the last 8 years.

No susprises that whilst I've seen vast growth in Bristol in this period and having operated out of there Cardiff airport has gone the other way.
Two years ago flew out on a family summer holiday and the place was a ghost town and what I gather since then it hasn't improved.

[JSCL]

Fares mean nothing when there's nobody to pay them, however.

[JSCL]

Look at Newquay, Ryanair moved in, the Market remained stale. Cardiff is no different, someone in the Bristol thread mentione that they would sooner keep to BRS than bother travelling over to CWL because with the cost of fuel to get there, still more effective to keep to BRS. You can't just create markets because of low fares.

[bravoromeosierra]

The Severn Bridge fare is also quite extortionate, isn't it not?

[Phileas Fogg]

And both the bridges are French

[pwalhx]

The air tax referred to is the APD and it is not coming to England it is already here. What is being discussed is the Welsh Assembly assuming control over it and the possibility they may reduce or remove it at Welsh airports I believe.

[Phileas Fogg]

FR no longer operate out of NQY because it's not the marketplace to be operating B737-800's.

It's not like FR to admit a mistake that they misjudged the marketplace, it's their way, their arrogance, to always pin the blame on anybody except themselves.

[MerchantVenturer]

APD

But if there were ever airlines such as ryanair moving to CWL, the market would move with them ...

It might be tempting for an airline such as Ryanair to use CWL if its air passenger tax regime was far more favourable than neighbouring English airports, but to say the market would move with it is not necessarily the case. Part of the market probably would but how much?

Bristol, which by common consent, seems to be Cardiff's main rival has a larger core catchment and, importantly, a bigger local business base and more well-off leisure travellers with the means and will to travel.

If, say, Ryanair moved all its flight across the Severn to Cardiff it would need to be certain it could attract enough punters to give it at least as good a return as it gets at Bristol. Latest CAA stats (albeit from 2008) show that just under 13% of BRS's passengers begin or end their journey in South Wales.

Let's assume with reasonable confidence that Ryanair has a broadly similar proportion of 'Welsh' passengers out of Bristol. This means that around 87% of the passengers begin or end their journeys somewhere other than Wales - the CAA stats suggest that nearly 48% start/finish in Greater Bristol and 36% in the wider south west with smaller numbers from the Thames Valley, Home Counties and Midlands. Because of its smaller core catchment CWL would have to attract a much larger proportion of passengers (both percentage-wise and in real terms) from outside South Wales to maintain parity with the current Bristol set-up.

So it might not just be a more favourable tax regime that airlines would have to consider tempting though that may be. That said, the Bristol Airport management is clearly concerned.

[JSCL]

Based on next week... BRS and LGW clearly have limited seats and CWL has lots of capacity left if the deals are that much different!

[JSCL]

It's price wise because of desperation. They need to sell seats, so they lower the price.

LGW and BRS prices are likely due to over capacity ie more departures than CWL has anyway.

[JSCL]

Because they know all too well, it'll sell in advance at that price. It'll adjust if it doesn't sell. Clearly people are prepared to pay to fly out of BRS and £400 means nothing to flying out of CWL.

It seems clear that the only way can attract advance bookings in the region is tempt people to CWL in advance because they know BRS is likely to sell. They are basically prostitituting CWL.

[Phileas Fogg]

Interesting that RoyalWelsh is posting the same 'Aviation Wales' links as Benjimin was, Benjimin disappeared to be replaced by RoyalWelsh.

Benjimin was exposed for deception, RoyalWelsh appears overnight having suddenly put on 7 years in age ... Benjimin's deception continues!

One claimed to be 17, the other 24, yet they both live in the small location of Nelson, Nr. Caerphilly.

This thread has become Benjimin's play pen.

[USE THE RUDDERS]

I've been reading these Cardiff posts now for a number of years now and feel the need to comment!

There is no way the likes of FR are going to up sticks and leave a successful airport like BRS with a larger catchment area, higher GDP per head of population and relocate to a struggilng airport like Cardiff.

If the likes of BMI Baby are pulling out and Flybe not planning any immediate expansion why would FR want to fill the void when they have already left once?
Even the charters are cutting back on routes?

I can't see how air tax in England can be seen as Cardiff's saviour. Correct me if I'm wrong I didn't think the WAG had taxition powers, do these still belong in Westminster?
What will stop WAG bring in it's own eco tax?

Unfortunately Cardiff in still stuck in a 1970's/80's timewarp and has been eclipsed by more succesful regional airports.

I first flew from there in the early 90's and compared to BRS then it was cutting edge.

No amount of silly school projects and fantasy airlines with fictitous routes is going to deny the fact that the airport is in a major rutt.
Previous talk of EK,AA and DAL looking at the place are frankly ludicrous and embarrassing.

I would be the first to admit if I'm proved wrong but in all seriousness the future is looking bleak.

Please guys can we live in the real world.

[PPRuNe Pop]

I am not sure what is going on here. But experience tells me that it is not good. There is no debate just assumptions, guesswork and nothing else.

Unless there is stuff to discuss get off the subject.

AND............if there is a Walter Mitty in our midst he will be banned.

[USE THE RUDDERS]

Well said PPruNe Pop