MANCHESTER - 8
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Iberia
Mr A Tis
I have a quick look at the Iberia timetable and it does look good for some connections although a few hours layover to some South American routes.
It has also been reported on other forums that both the inbound and outbound time perfectly for South American connections.
Also with Madrid probably less of a need for a business day trip due to the flight times and it should pick up business traffic as well with it being daily albeit with a hotel stay.
Leisure, which I am sure would only be a bonus has no chance with the other two around.
Ryanair to blink first although easy is now showing four weekly.
Just need to persuade IB, that BHX would be an even better idea with no competition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pete
I have a quick look at the Iberia timetable and it does look good for some connections although a few hours layover to some South American routes.
It has also been reported on other forums that both the inbound and outbound time perfectly for South American connections.
Also with Madrid probably less of a need for a business day trip due to the flight times and it should pick up business traffic as well with it being daily albeit with a hotel stay.
Leisure, which I am sure would only be a bonus has no chance with the other two around.
Ryanair to blink first although easy is now showing four weekly.
Just need to persuade IB, that BHX would be an even better idea with no competition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pete
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and there is also the rumour of Monarch / Air Europa interest, although this may have now fallen through
There are 2 daily flights, one leaves at 0745, returning 1345. The other flight leaves at 1700, but is down as returning 08:30 the next day. The latter may change as thats a long night stop at MAD, unless they plan to operate a W-pattern to somewhere else.
Blimey, from zero to 18 flights a week ! You can predict the outcome can't you!!
Same as Berlin when we went from 2 x E145s a day to 2 x E145s + B733 + B738 a day & ended up with none.
Mind you, if the ZB does operate in the morning, it would be a bonus & if the IB does connect well-then there is hope for them too. I think TAP has "tapped" into the south american market well- is there room for two?
Same as Berlin when we went from 2 x E145s a day to 2 x E145s + B733 + B738 a day & ended up with none.
Mind you, if the ZB does operate in the morning, it would be a bonus & if the IB does connect well-then there is hope for them too. I think TAP has "tapped" into the south american market well- is there room for two?
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TAP is predominently Brasil with some Venezuela and Argentina flights whereas Iberia has a broaer range of desinations around South America I would say there is room for both.
There are 2 daily flights, one leaves at 0745, returning 1345. The other flight leaves at 1700, but is down as returning 08:30 the next day. The latter may change as thats a long night stop at MAD, unless they plan to operate a W-pattern to somewhere else.
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With a block time of 2 hours 20 mins, a 17:00 MAN dep will arrive in MAD at 19:20. Also, the 08:30 time is the arrival back at MAN, meaning an 06:10 departure. Thats a night stop of 10:50. When you include report times, which can be up to 1.30 before TO, that does not give the 11 hours required rest, but still makes a long night stop. Hence why I think the times could change.
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when easy jet said that they were going to fly out of southend ,along with the bucket n spade flights madrid was mentioned as a destination.i know ryan air do a earlt morning flight and an early evening flight from stansted,then maybe the sen flight {if it goes ahead}could be a good thing is there a market for more flights to madrid south of manchester?
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delta 154
Not quite correct is saying the Crew need 11 hours off
With split duty rest in madrid which would be a total of 8 hours thay can add 4 hours to the maximum allowed for 2 Sectors which would probably be enough assuming they reqport at 1600 in Manchester
Loys of Airlines do that were a short night stop is required
So I presume thats how they will do it with just 1 Crew Man-Mad-Man
Regards
Gerry
With split duty rest in madrid which would be a total of 8 hours thay can add 4 hours to the maximum allowed for 2 Sectors which would probably be enough assuming they reqport at 1600 in Manchester
Loys of Airlines do that were a short night stop is required
So I presume thats how they will do it with just 1 Crew Man-Mad-Man
Regards
Gerry
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Hi Learjet
Thanks for the explination, but, as a small point, it wasnt me who said the crew needed 11 hours, it was easyflyer83. My post was trying to comment that if the crew needed 11 hours, the block times of the flight wouldnt allow it.
Should be interesting to see when this gets announced, not long for lead in times now.
Thanks for the explination, but, as a small point, it wasnt me who said the crew needed 11 hours, it was easyflyer83. My post was trying to comment that if the crew needed 11 hours, the block times of the flight wouldnt allow it.
Should be interesting to see when this gets announced, not long for lead in times now.
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Any reason that the Finnair ERJ-170s were bussed from the remote Stand 101 over the weekend and also that one of the KLM ERJ-190 was bussed from the 230s when there was but a single Thomson B757 on T2??? Has someone broken the only towbar Servisair have and would BMI not share perhaps?
Also the security system at T3 is mental. Only airport I have flown through where they let you into the security area (past a bloke who could have cheked it !!!) then only check your boarding card as you are taking off your belt and emptying your pockets at the trays. I know the self scan barcode gates were useless (LGW's just spent millions installing them at the South Terrible!!) but if you want a human check, do it before you get that far. You remember? The way it was always done? Multi tasking as you get your turn for a plastic tray is hard enough to get everything that needs to go in there as well as belt off and finding boarding card!
Incidentally LGW introduced a system of NOT giving passengers trays until the last minute making frequent fliers wait while staff helped once a year Nelly to take ages getting stuff into the tray. MAN T3 still has this approach, but guess what, LGW just dumped this approach for the much faster everyone grabs a tray and is allowed to fill a tray without supervision! Radical!!
Also the security system at T3 is mental. Only airport I have flown through where they let you into the security area (past a bloke who could have cheked it !!!) then only check your boarding card as you are taking off your belt and emptying your pockets at the trays. I know the self scan barcode gates were useless (LGW's just spent millions installing them at the South Terrible!!) but if you want a human check, do it before you get that far. You remember? The way it was always done? Multi tasking as you get your turn for a plastic tray is hard enough to get everything that needs to go in there as well as belt off and finding boarding card!
Incidentally LGW introduced a system of NOT giving passengers trays until the last minute making frequent fliers wait while staff helped once a year Nelly to take ages getting stuff into the tray. MAN T3 still has this approach, but guess what, LGW just dumped this approach for the much faster everyone grabs a tray and is allowed to fill a tray without supervision! Radical!!
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 15th Aug 2011 at 10:06.
I think the duty wouldn't work as a split shift. I did indeed mention the 11 hour rest period but I think downroute the rest period can be reduced to 10 hours. I'm a bit rusty of the FDP front.
Even so, it's not that long a nightstop. Typically, nightstoppers tend to land between 9 and 1030 anyway so there isn't really anything dramatically different. The aircraft lands around 2020 (thats local btw) and it's needed the next morning to operate the flight back to MAN. Therefore, theres nothing else for the aircraft to do other than sit on the ground in MAD and the crew need their rest period. It all sounds perfectly plausible should it go ahead.
Now for a split duty scenario to work it would likely see the service depart MAN around 1030PM arriving MAD 0150am and then the crew would HOTAC for 4 or 5 hours before departing back to MAN.
Even so, it's not that long a nightstop. Typically, nightstoppers tend to land between 9 and 1030 anyway so there isn't really anything dramatically different. The aircraft lands around 2020 (thats local btw) and it's needed the next morning to operate the flight back to MAN. Therefore, theres nothing else for the aircraft to do other than sit on the ground in MAD and the crew need their rest period. It all sounds perfectly plausible should it go ahead.
Now for a split duty scenario to work it would likely see the service depart MAN around 1030PM arriving MAD 0150am and then the crew would HOTAC for 4 or 5 hours before departing back to MAN.
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Depending on Monarch's scheduling agreement, the duty would work with a split allowed under CAP 371.
Report 1600z = Max FDP based on 2 sectors of 12hr 25min
Depart 1700z
Arrive 1920z
Off Duty 1950z
Report 0500z = Rest of 9hr 10min
Depart 0600z
Arrive 0830z = Total Duty 16hr 30min
Last on chocks = 16:00+12:25+4:35 (Half of 9:10)-24:00 (To covert back to a time since over midnight) = 09:00z
As long as the crew get their required rest downroute, and the aircraft arrives back on stand by 0900z then the flight would be legal if Monarch schedule up to max FDP allowed under CAP 371... Although I suspect they may not.
Report 1600z = Max FDP based on 2 sectors of 12hr 25min
Depart 1700z
Arrive 1920z
Off Duty 1950z
Report 0500z = Rest of 9hr 10min
Depart 0600z
Arrive 0830z = Total Duty 16hr 30min
Last on chocks = 16:00+12:25+4:35 (Half of 9:10)-24:00 (To covert back to a time since over midnight) = 09:00z
As long as the crew get their required rest downroute, and the aircraft arrives back on stand by 0900z then the flight would be legal if Monarch schedule up to max FDP allowed under CAP 371... Although I suspect they may not.
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Any reason that the Finnair ERJ-170s were bussed from the remote Stand 101 over the weekend and also that one of the KLM ERJ-190 was bussed from the 230s when there was but a single Thomson B757 on T2??? Has someone broken the only towbar Servisair have and would BMI not share perhaps?
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Delta 154 and downwind left
Sorry Delta 154 cant read ????
Downwind left ansered the questions re Max hours like other CAP371 is a long way in the past certainly for me
Gerry
Downwind left ansered the questions re Max hours like other CAP371 is a long way in the past certainly for me
Gerry
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Depending on Monarch's scheduling agreement, the duty would work with a split allowed under CAP 371.
Report 1600z = Max FDP based on 2 sectors of 12hr 25min
Depart 1700z
Arrive 1920z
Off Duty 1950z
Report 0500z = Rest of 9hr 10min
Depart 0600z
Arrive 0830z = Total Duty 16hr 30min
Last on chocks = 16:00+12:25+4:35 (Half of 9:10)-24:00 (To covert back to a time since over midnight) = 09:00z
As long as the crew get their required rest downroute, and the aircraft arrives back on stand by 0900z then the flight would be legal if Monarch schedule up to max FDP allowed under CAP 371... Although I suspect they may not.
Report 1600z = Max FDP based on 2 sectors of 12hr 25min
Depart 1700z
Arrive 1920z
Off Duty 1950z
Report 0500z = Rest of 9hr 10min
Depart 0600z
Arrive 0830z = Total Duty 16hr 30min
Last on chocks = 16:00+12:25+4:35 (Half of 9:10)-24:00 (To covert back to a time since over midnight) = 09:00z
As long as the crew get their required rest downroute, and the aircraft arrives back on stand by 0900z then the flight would be legal if Monarch schedule up to max FDP allowed under CAP 371... Although I suspect they may not.
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The ZB schedule as published above can be operated as a split duty but it won't happen before S12 at the earliest if at all...why would they enter a market that is going to be a bloodbath?
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The ZB schedule as published above can be operated as a split duty but it won't happen before S12 at the earliest if at all...why would they enter a market that is going to be a bloodbath?