DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
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highwideandugly I did not put any positive spin on anything just reported the facts and the fact that you clearly thought TNT weren't operating at the airport just shows how little you understand about revenue streams! MOD doesn't have to be trooping flights but is verything and anything under the MOD umbrella! My whole point is that airports aren't just that! They are business parks, airfields and much more besides!
NorthSouth is LCY SEN?... No! Neither did I say Middlesborough was full of bankers! Was it bankers that were using the LHR link?
Pug agree that 737 sized aircraft were never the right option for MME on low cost models and yes the airport should never of turned their back on the bucket and spade brigade! But that is all hindsight.
NorthSouth is LCY SEN?... No! Neither did I say Middlesborough was full of bankers! Was it bankers that were using the LHR link?
Pug agree that 737 sized aircraft were never the right option for MME on low cost models and yes the airport should never of turned their back on the bucket and spade brigade! But that is all hindsight.
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Just been looking at Google Map together with Google Earth and Street View. I notice that Teeside Airport station can only be accessed from the airport and not the A67. So was the station built to serve the former RAF base or for passenger access to the airport? Has the airport ever provided some sort of shuttle bus to the terminal?
Also looking at Google Earth’s historic view taken in 2000 and their modern view. There is the framework of a large building that was being built by the railway station on airport land in 2000 or before. The building site has been abandoned. What was this building going to be used for and why was it abandoned?
Also looking at Google Earth’s historic view taken in 2000 and their modern view. There is the framework of a large building that was being built by the railway station on airport land in 2000 or before. The building site has been abandoned. What was this building going to be used for and why was it abandoned?
Last edited by LTNman; 22nd Jul 2011 at 06:10.
I understand that trains stop at Teesside Airport railway station only on Sundays, with only two services then. The platform can also take only four-carriage trains apparently.
A shuttle bus driver wouldn't be exactly over employed.
A shuttle bus driver wouldn't be exactly over employed.
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Train access or rather lack of is not an issue here, one only has to look at LBA or EMA to see that will not hold an airport back, most people wil either self drive or taxi, over many years the only train I have ever caught to a airport was LHR
I disagree that the 737 is the wrong size for the LoCo model out of DTV baby loads were very good on many routes, but DTV will only support so many routes due to it's location between LBA NCL and a two aircraft base might be viable when gas was cheap but not at current prices.
What DTV need to do is to persuade a few airline to run W pattern flight through DTV thereby avoiding base costs and show there is demand, it may be too late for winter ski but the likes of PRG would be a start.
I disagree that the 737 is the wrong size for the LoCo model out of DTV baby loads were very good on many routes, but DTV will only support so many routes due to it's location between LBA NCL and a two aircraft base might be viable when gas was cheap but not at current prices.
What DTV need to do is to persuade a few airline to run W pattern flight through DTV thereby avoiding base costs and show there is demand, it may be too late for winter ski but the likes of PRG would be a start.
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I think you're right @Facebookbovvered - to an extent.
735's would have been fine to support the market for DTV an still could be used there to offer some routes. Definitely, some W patterns could work - the point is, it has to be worth people traveling. I will happily travel from Manchester to Blackpool, Leeds and Liverpool if I need to and have done in the past if it's worthwhile doing so. So VAS should definitely be thinking that they are in the position to offer phenomenal fee rates to entice carriers in, they should have no problem being able to do that. I do actually see DTV becoming a Liverpool of the area - not massively busy but developing and sustaining a good level of routes which is at a profit for the airport overall.
They just need to pull themselves together and go for it. They have a tonne of facility space there, they could even start working to bring in some more cargo guys and too good to refuse rates, but the problem again is transport from the Airport.
I don't really know DTV or a lot about it, but there is no reason in my view that they can't be doing something about the ghost town situation.
735's would have been fine to support the market for DTV an still could be used there to offer some routes. Definitely, some W patterns could work - the point is, it has to be worth people traveling. I will happily travel from Manchester to Blackpool, Leeds and Liverpool if I need to and have done in the past if it's worthwhile doing so. So VAS should definitely be thinking that they are in the position to offer phenomenal fee rates to entice carriers in, they should have no problem being able to do that. I do actually see DTV becoming a Liverpool of the area - not massively busy but developing and sustaining a good level of routes which is at a profit for the airport overall.
They just need to pull themselves together and go for it. They have a tonne of facility space there, they could even start working to bring in some more cargo guys and too good to refuse rates, but the problem again is transport from the Airport.
I don't really know DTV or a lot about it, but there is no reason in my view that they can't be doing something about the ghost town situation.
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JCSL
I fear your views are more theoretical than practical, & perhaps miss the most fundamental of points "It is a sellers market" out there insofar as carriers are concerned, thus they place their aircraft where they believe they can generate the most revenue. DTV simply can't compete from on a level playing field, with underwriting costs to support services totally unecconomic.
Looking at it from another direction for a Loco to provide a service then this has to be at the expense of another service / route elsewhere on their network. Alternatively the introduction of an additional aircraft into the fleet & one is competing with bases all across europe. DTV is unfortunately at the wrong end of a downwards spiral, which with partial closures & reduction in resources is hardly sending out a positive message. This all also relevant as regards to "w" operations, which incidentally would likely be less cost effective in terms of the net revenue generated.
I'm unsure as to what VAS must be thinking though I doubt VAS have any Arab benefactors willing to throw money around. More to the point is that VAS came to the table with strong credentials / experience of running airports. One would be excused from assuming based on their performance at DTV that that is not the case !
I do actually see DTV becoming a Liverpool of the area - not massively busy but developing and sustaining a good level of routes which is at a profit for the airport overall.
Looking at it from another direction for a Loco to provide a service then this has to be at the expense of another service / route elsewhere on their network. Alternatively the introduction of an additional aircraft into the fleet & one is competing with bases all across europe. DTV is unfortunately at the wrong end of a downwards spiral, which with partial closures & reduction in resources is hardly sending out a positive message. This all also relevant as regards to "w" operations, which incidentally would likely be less cost effective in terms of the net revenue generated.
So VAS should definitely be thinking that they are in the position to offer phenomenal fee rates to entice carriers in, they should have no problem being able to do that.
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Skyman - you appear to lay out an argument as to why services from DTV would be uneconomic and then end with a dig at VAS for not attracting services to the airport??
If the market as it stands at the moment means that airlines are not in the mood for taking risks at smaller airports like DTV, then what do you propose VAS should do?
If the market as it stands at the moment means that airlines are not in the mood for taking risks at smaller airports like DTV, then what do you propose VAS should do?
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onion:
No indeed. But your point was that a Teesside-Southend service might work because SEN is
i.e. that it might serve the same clientele as LCY.
NS
NorthSouth is LCY SEN?... No! Neither did I say Middlesborough was full of bankers! Was it bankers that were using the LHR link?
ideal for the City and Canary Wharf
NS
A good barnie!!
Excellent thoughts and ideas from all here!! Maybe we should all get together(small amount of capital) and dictate the running of the airport?
Onion..I love your posts and I dont want to argue as I know like others you care.However you must take off the blinkers... I am aware of revenue streams(I should be in my position!) and my point is...MME doesnt have any!! The TNT operation has been going for years..where is it in the airport accounts? I will tell you way,way down.As others have said..that operation could be run from any site.What recognition does it give the airport? non.. as processed items (and I know) do not mention DTV on dispatch.
The MOD you mention is a trickle although more flights are due shortly! Front line/training sq> unfortunately do not exist any more..revenue? = nil plus its a small fee charged for these aircraft.
Commercial terminal feed is nil (ex.tax)
The infrastucture which takes years to build has gone I'm afraid.
Skyman hits the nail on the head..listen to him!
B737 aircraft were the right option..they had to be as no one operated anything else!
Weary but interesting...if all the threads could be joined together and some form of super energy produced MME would be number 1 in the NE !!
off to the pub again..care to join me anyone??
Onion..I love your posts and I dont want to argue as I know like others you care.However you must take off the blinkers... I am aware of revenue streams(I should be in my position!) and my point is...MME doesnt have any!! The TNT operation has been going for years..where is it in the airport accounts? I will tell you way,way down.As others have said..that operation could be run from any site.What recognition does it give the airport? non.. as processed items (and I know) do not mention DTV on dispatch.
The MOD you mention is a trickle although more flights are due shortly! Front line/training sq> unfortunately do not exist any more..revenue? = nil plus its a small fee charged for these aircraft.
Commercial terminal feed is nil (ex.tax)
The infrastucture which takes years to build has gone I'm afraid.
Skyman hits the nail on the head..listen to him!
B737 aircraft were the right option..they had to be as no one operated anything else!
Weary but interesting...if all the threads could be joined together and some form of super energy produced MME would be number 1 in the NE !!
off to the pub again..care to join me anyone??
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North West
I am not in the position to tell VAS what to do, though I am not as naive as to suggest as per :-
JSCL
.
Back to reality !... then my only comments on the VAS acquisition are a) to suggest that VAS possibly did not carry out sufficient “due diligence” on buying into Peel Airports. Ironically a read through the earlier postings of this thread could potentially have put them on notice as to some of the many issues that they have been unable to resolve. & b) To note that I understood that VAS initial objectives upon acquisition when considering their airport portfolio as a whole were to address matters at DTV. From what I can see, then from a DTV positive perspective they haven't managed to get past first base !
I am not in the position to tell VAS what to do, though I am not as naive as to suggest as per :-
JSCL
VAS should definitely be thinking that they are in the position to offer phenomenal fee rates to entice carriers in 
,
,
Back to reality !... then my only comments on the VAS acquisition are a) to suggest that VAS possibly did not carry out sufficient “due diligence” on buying into Peel Airports. Ironically a read through the earlier postings of this thread could potentially have put them on notice as to some of the many issues that they have been unable to resolve. & b) To note that I understood that VAS initial objectives upon acquisition when considering their airport portfolio as a whole were to address matters at DTV. From what I can see, then from a DTV positive perspective they haven't managed to get past first base !
I note that in Plymouth, the company running the airport has basically given up, and decided to close the airport.
What are the formal commercial and legal barriers to Peel / VAS doing the same thing and selling the land for alternate use such as an industrial park, retail development or housing ? Are there, for example, any commercial contracts which forbid this ? Perhaps planning laws or the MoD require the airport to be functional ? Anything else ?
I don't wish to see MME close, but am curious as to how strong a hand the airport supporters have, if the boards of Peel or VAS decide they've had enough
What are the formal commercial and legal barriers to Peel / VAS doing the same thing and selling the land for alternate use such as an industrial park, retail development or housing ? Are there, for example, any commercial contracts which forbid this ? Perhaps planning laws or the MoD require the airport to be functional ? Anything else ?
I don't wish to see MME close, but am curious as to how strong a hand the airport supporters have, if the boards of Peel or VAS decide they've had enough
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Hangars One and Two and the majority of the other buildings from the RAF days are listed buildings and can't be touched, so that would be a spanner in the works.
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highwideandugly I am far from blinkered and have had a close relationship with the airport for 20+ years! I have seen things come and go. The facts are that too many people believe the be and end all is passengers! Airfields do and can survive with out passengers and before you point out an airport with out passengers is and airfield, I know.
B737 aircraft were the wrong sized aircraft, point is that Globespan, bmibaby or Ryanair could make them work in the long term on routes! The routes needed to be carefully chosen with the right aircraft, frequencies and timings. This was never done and all that has happened is that the routes came and went! This has put people off and put other airlines off. Yes there are many other reasons why lowcost services didn't take off at MME but these are the main reasons. It isn't only lowcost that have got it wrong though, Eastern did with their Brussels services that left MME to late arriving in Brussels to late and thus returning back to the UK to late! This all leads to bad publicity and a poor reputation with the general public and other airlines.
I do feel though most of the blame at the airport rest at the incompetence of the senior managment.
I think most on here would agree that there are ways out of the situation but the managment and operators just don't seemed to be bothered with the business and I know thre don't care about the staff.
B737 aircraft were the wrong sized aircraft, point is that Globespan, bmibaby or Ryanair could make them work in the long term on routes! The routes needed to be carefully chosen with the right aircraft, frequencies and timings. This was never done and all that has happened is that the routes came and went! This has put people off and put other airlines off. Yes there are many other reasons why lowcost services didn't take off at MME but these are the main reasons. It isn't only lowcost that have got it wrong though, Eastern did with their Brussels services that left MME to late arriving in Brussels to late and thus returning back to the UK to late! This all leads to bad publicity and a poor reputation with the general public and other airlines.
I do feel though most of the blame at the airport rest at the incompetence of the senior managment.
I think most on here would agree that there are ways out of the situation but the managment and operators just don't seemed to be bothered with the business and I know thre don't care about the staff.
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Train access is hugely important. EMA has the parkway station. Public transport to EMA is also available through Skylink, ie bus which links to the Nottingham trains and tram services.
The point being that the ONLY way to go to ME is either via taxi or self-drive. Both are expensive and as Ive explained here before, it is actually cheaper, more efficient and easier to go to Manchester Airport from Teesside than it is to go to MME.
The point being that the ONLY way to go to ME is either via taxi or self-drive. Both are expensive and as Ive explained here before, it is actually cheaper, more efficient and easier to go to Manchester Airport from Teesside than it is to go to MME.
June figures
I know we spend a lot of time looking at passenger figures through our airport(and others) however can anyone fill in the missing airport for June....
1)Dundee
2)Derry
3).......
4)not Dallas
yes you have guessed it..so not only are our passenger figures rock bottom..our movements are rock bottom..campaign time!!!
VAS OUT !!!! local councils back!!
1)Dundee
2)Derry
3).......
4)not Dallas
yes you have guessed it..so not only are our passenger figures rock bottom..our movements are rock bottom..campaign time!!!
VAS OUT !!!! local councils back!!
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VAS OUT !!!! local councils back!!
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As I have said before the only thing keeping the builders off the airport site is the fact were are in recession. Once land prices pick up then I am afraid it may be easier for the land to be sold off for housing, retail park etc. I fear that given the opportunity the airport owners may think it makes better business to sell off the land than keep the airport on the life support machine
DTVAIRPORT - every day I pass a site on the way to NCL airport that used to have a command and control building for the RAF that was built in the thirties to keep a check on the Luftwaffe, unfortunately at the height of the housing boom that did not stop a house builder buying the site for housbuilding they simply were not allowed to pull the bunker down so built round it. Although a derelict building from the 1930s looks strange in a middle of a new housing estate it did not stop the builders or in deed put the folks off buying the houses. - dont think two hangers will stop the land around them been developed as it wont
DTVAIRPORT - every day I pass a site on the way to NCL airport that used to have a command and control building for the RAF that was built in the thirties to keep a check on the Luftwaffe, unfortunately at the height of the housing boom that did not stop a house builder buying the site for housbuilding they simply were not allowed to pull the bunker down so built round it. Although a derelict building from the 1930s looks strange in a middle of a new housing estate it did not stop the builders or in deed put the folks off buying the houses. - dont think two hangers will stop the land around them been developed as it wont
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Bourgas
More bad news - looks like the Bourgas flights have been scrapped for the rest of the summer. Next special offer on Balkan Holidays website for Durham Tees Valley is 21 May 2012, where as every other airport has special offers for this year... Is it a case of the £6 fee putting a few people off flying from MME which then makes marginal routes unprofitable? Quite shocking as we are now in the peak holiday season...
