FAA knew Thailand was deficient in July '07 but never informed the traveling public
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FAA knew Thailand was deficient in July '07 but never informed the traveling public
The US FAA has a program called IASA (International Aviation Safety Assessment) which it uses to:
In July 2007, the FAA informed the DCA they had "serious deficiencies" in their oversight of Thai-based aviation. They NEVER notified the public of these issues.
In September 2007, Orient Thai's One-Two-Go OG269 crashed on landing in Phuket, Thailand, killing 90 people, including 5 Americans.*
In January 2008, the FAA told the DCA they had sufficiently remediated their deficiencies.
In my effort for a proper investigation into the crash of OG269, I learned of serious and dangerous deficiencies in Thai-based aviation - not only at Orient Thai. In April of '08, I made contact with the FAA international branch. They agreed to receive and review the evidence I was provided. Despite that proof and testimony from pilots and others working in commercial aviation in Thailand, the FAA re-affirmed their findings that Thailand met the minimum ICAO standards in August 2008.
An aide to Congressman Frank and I met with the FAA on Oct 27, 2008 to discuss their findings in the face of significant proof of dangerous and illegal flight on international Thai-based airlines, well-known and overlooked by the DCA.
The FAA brought in lawyer Mark Bury. Mr. Bury (repeatedly) said, "The FAA can not say a country is safe or that they have proper oversight or that they maintain proper oversight. The FAA can only say that at a particular moment in time, the FAA found the country to meet the minimum ICAO standards for annexes 1,6, and 8."
I am assured by sources with contacts at higher levels of the FAA, that the FAA is well aware of the significant issues with Thai-based aviation, yet has chosen to deal not harshly with Thailand rather than meet their mandate of keeping Americans safe.
Because the FAA has taken no action to warn the public. I am making public the material I was provided**. The website is www.dontflythai.com. It is currently under construction. ***
*No intent of minimizing the deaths of non-Americans, just noting that the FAA's responsibilies included those 5 Americans lost. The dead were citizens of Australian, Britian, France, Ireland, Iran, Isreali, Sweeden and Thailand, plus injuries to other people and nationalities.
**When authorized by the source.
*** I felt it important to get this information into the public domain asap. For information specific to Orient Thai, see InvestigateUdom.com proof and evidence.
- Determine a country's aviation access rights to the US
- Inform US travelers abroad where they are safe to fly
In July 2007, the FAA informed the DCA they had "serious deficiencies" in their oversight of Thai-based aviation. They NEVER notified the public of these issues.
In September 2007, Orient Thai's One-Two-Go OG269 crashed on landing in Phuket, Thailand, killing 90 people, including 5 Americans.*
In January 2008, the FAA told the DCA they had sufficiently remediated their deficiencies.
In my effort for a proper investigation into the crash of OG269, I learned of serious and dangerous deficiencies in Thai-based aviation - not only at Orient Thai. In April of '08, I made contact with the FAA international branch. They agreed to receive and review the evidence I was provided. Despite that proof and testimony from pilots and others working in commercial aviation in Thailand, the FAA re-affirmed their findings that Thailand met the minimum ICAO standards in August 2008.
An aide to Congressman Frank and I met with the FAA on Oct 27, 2008 to discuss their findings in the face of significant proof of dangerous and illegal flight on international Thai-based airlines, well-known and overlooked by the DCA.
The FAA brought in lawyer Mark Bury. Mr. Bury (repeatedly) said, "The FAA can not say a country is safe or that they have proper oversight or that they maintain proper oversight. The FAA can only say that at a particular moment in time, the FAA found the country to meet the minimum ICAO standards for annexes 1,6, and 8."
I am assured by sources with contacts at higher levels of the FAA, that the FAA is well aware of the significant issues with Thai-based aviation, yet has chosen to deal not harshly with Thailand rather than meet their mandate of keeping Americans safe.
Because the FAA has taken no action to warn the public. I am making public the material I was provided**. The website is www.dontflythai.com. It is currently under construction. ***
*No intent of minimizing the deaths of non-Americans, just noting that the FAA's responsibilies included those 5 Americans lost. The dead were citizens of Australian, Britian, France, Ireland, Iran, Isreali, Sweeden and Thailand, plus injuries to other people and nationalities.
**When authorized by the source.
*** I felt it important to get this information into the public domain asap. For information specific to Orient Thai, see InvestigateUdom.com proof and evidence.
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In July 2007, the FAA informed the DCA they had "serious deficiencies" in their oversight of Thai-based aviation. They NEVER notified the public of these issues.
In September 2007, Orient Thai's One-Two-Go OG269 crashed on landing in Phuket, Thailand, killing 90 people, including 5 Americans.
In September 2007, Orient Thai's One-Two-Go OG269 crashed on landing in Phuket, Thailand, killing 90 people, including 5 Americans.
Just a thought - does the action of not notifying the public leave them (the FAA) open to any consequential legal action or review?
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Dear Mr. "InvestigateUdom."
You speak as if the American "FAA" [Federal Aviation Administration, Washington, DC, USA] has some sort of legal control or jurisdiction over Thai registered airplanes operating in Thai airspace.
You speak as if the kingdom of Thailand were not a sovereign nation and that its Department of Civil Aviation, and "One-Two-Go" airlines in particular, were subject to United States operating standards. . . ?
How should the American FAA have "informed the public" in Thailand? . . . By placing ads in Thai newspapers warning Thai domestic travellers that its Thai airlines, its Thai licenced crews and its Thai registered airplanes do not meet American FAA standards....?
Obviously, you're a man with a mission regarding Thai aviation. But get real.
[PS: I don't live in Thailand, nor am I affiliated with Thai Aviation]
You speak as if the kingdom of Thailand were not a sovereign nation and that its Department of Civil Aviation, and "One-Two-Go" airlines in particular, were subject to United States operating standards. . . ?
How should the American FAA have "informed the public" in Thailand? . . . By placing ads in Thai newspapers warning Thai domestic travellers that its Thai airlines, its Thai licenced crews and its Thai registered airplanes do not meet American FAA standards....?
Obviously, you're a man with a mission regarding Thai aviation. But get real.
[PS: I don't live in Thailand, nor am I affiliated with Thai Aviation]
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FAA is responsible for informing Americans of CAA's compliance with ICAO standards
You can read about the IASA program on the FAA's website. To be clear, IASA is not a review of a country or an airline or of any organization's adherence to US standards. It is an assessment of a country's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) ability and willingness to meet the mininimum International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standards for annex's 1,6, & 8 (airworthiness of aircraft, operation of aircraft, licensing).
If there is an airline in a country that wants to fly into the US, the country must submit to this audit or have submitted to this audit in the past. The FAA then performs regular reviews of the countries' CAA to ensure they continue to meet minimum ICAO standards. The FAA, recognizing the rights of Americans to this information, provides their findings to the State Department to inform Americans where they are safe traveling. Here is Thailand's. Notice the Aviation Safety Oversight section. This is very clear and very incorrect.
Let's be clear. This is about an economic relationship between the US and other countries, in this case Thailand. The FAA IASA review of Indonsesia found Indonesia deficient. They have very limited rights to US airspace. And, Americans don't much vacation to Indonesia. (How many Americans have been offered a family vacation in Indonesia recently? Very few.)
Long answer short. No, the US does not and should not regulate Thailand. However, in the process of ensuring Thailand was safe enough for flight into the US, the FAA learned that Thailand's aviation (or the CAA) was "seriously deficient". They had a stated responsibility to inform Americans and did not. In fact, they mis-informed Americans by stating the country was safe for airline travel.
Yes, I think this is a big deal.
If there is an airline in a country that wants to fly into the US, the country must submit to this audit or have submitted to this audit in the past. The FAA then performs regular reviews of the countries' CAA to ensure they continue to meet minimum ICAO standards. The FAA, recognizing the rights of Americans to this information, provides their findings to the State Department to inform Americans where they are safe traveling. Here is Thailand's. Notice the Aviation Safety Oversight section. This is very clear and very incorrect.
Let's be clear. This is about an economic relationship between the US and other countries, in this case Thailand. The FAA IASA review of Indonsesia found Indonesia deficient. They have very limited rights to US airspace. And, Americans don't much vacation to Indonesia. (How many Americans have been offered a family vacation in Indonesia recently? Very few.)
Long answer short. No, the US does not and should not regulate Thailand. However, in the process of ensuring Thailand was safe enough for flight into the US, the FAA learned that Thailand's aviation (or the CAA) was "seriously deficient". They had a stated responsibility to inform Americans and did not. In fact, they mis-informed Americans by stating the country was safe for airline travel.
Yes, I think this is a big deal.
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Thailand
AVIATION SAFETY OVERSIGHT: The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has assessed the Government ofThailand’s Civil Aviation Authority as being in compliance with International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) aviation safety standards for oversight of Thailand’s air carrier operations. For more information, travelers may visit the FAA’s web site at http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa
The ICAO Thailand Safety Oversight Audit Results under the Comprehensive Systems notes that operators surveillance obligations by DCA is well implemented (8/10).
Nonsense !
May be these guys can explain…
Marcus Costa [email protected]
Accident Investigation and Prevention Section (ICAO)
Henry Gourdji [email protected]
Chief Safety Oversight Audit Section (ICAO)
AVIATION SAFETY OVERSIGHT: The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has assessed the Government ofThailand’s Civil Aviation Authority as being in compliance with International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) aviation safety standards for oversight of Thailand’s air carrier operations. For more information, travelers may visit the FAA’s web site at http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa
The ICAO Thailand Safety Oversight Audit Results under the Comprehensive Systems notes that operators surveillance obligations by DCA is well implemented (8/10).
Nonsense !
May be these guys can explain…
Marcus Costa [email protected]
Accident Investigation and Prevention Section (ICAO)
Henry Gourdji [email protected]
Chief Safety Oversight Audit Section (ICAO)
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bertiecollins
Dear Glueball,
Just read your comments to 'Investigate Udom'. Lovin the 'get real' comment. I'm sure you'd 'get real' if you'd lost two beautiful 22 year old kids on the flight as my husband and I did. I find your comments completely offensive and uneducated!! Read the Investigateudom site and then comment.
Just read your comments to 'Investigate Udom'. Lovin the 'get real' comment. I'm sure you'd 'get real' if you'd lost two beautiful 22 year old kids on the flight as my husband and I did. I find your comments completely offensive and uneducated!! Read the Investigateudom site and then comment.
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Fly Thai, and Die
The Phuket Air Crash thread has been locked so I'm glad to see this one.
Bertie, very, very sorry for your loss. You should sue US FAA for failure to adequately do their job accessing TLand DCA and Phuket Airport too for not responding adequately to the crash .
I believe some French families are.
Please try to ignore posts that defend Thailand at all costs, more than likely they are from a forum within Thailand and become agitated when anyone critisizes TLand .
C 5, I notice resolved safety issue" box, uh what safety issue? That's more than a little vague
Now, any news IE ?
Bertie, very, very sorry for your loss. You should sue US FAA for failure to adequately do their job accessing TLand DCA and Phuket Airport too for not responding adequately to the crash .
I believe some French families are.
Please try to ignore posts that defend Thailand at all costs, more than likely they are from a forum within Thailand and become agitated when anyone critisizes TLand .
C 5, I notice resolved safety issue" box, uh what safety issue? That's more than a little vague
Now, any news IE ?
Last edited by ChristySweet; 15th Feb 2009 at 01:37. Reason: Add info
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French Families suing
Please elaborate, Are you suing the airport too, within Thailand, etc? Can I post more info about this on different forums and boards? PM me, please I think you have my personal e mail too
