I think the point is that if you can spare 500 managers and still operate to the same standard- which BA will- you plainly had at least 500 "managers" that had no bloody business at all being there in the first place.
In times of downturn BA has NEVER wielded the axe enough to clear the dead wood.
Think of all those jobs with fancy names (Multi worded Job title) How many are really and truly needed?
Talking to many people in different areas, the "work face" workers have been taking hits in jobs and terms and conditions for years.
How big does the "support team" need to be?
A cull at the top is fine, the company keeps talking about "Back to Basics" in service, but it also needs to go back to basics in what is needed to run the airline? (I am probably talking myself out of a job here! )
I think the point is that if you can spare 500 managers and still operate to the same standard- which BA will- you plainly had at least 500 "managers" that had no bloody business at all being there in the first place.
Or it could be that coming towards the end of T5 moves, outsourcing of many ground handling departments, regional bases, Engineering departments etc.. means less managers are needed.
Perhaps some on here really are unaware of what is really going on at BA.
Just because staff are surplus now when times are hard doesn't mean they weren't valuable assets that helped us survive and make massive profits in the past.
Manager or non-manager there is good and bad in all of them. I just hope the ones who are going are not the ones we really need to stay
Let's hope one to go is that renegade Staff Travel manager who supported - probably initiated - the disgraceful treatment of the older pensioners by arbitrarily ,and retrospectively, cutting off their rebate travel at the end of their lives - for which they pay something don't forget, even if only tax towards the crazy Carbon Credit tax per aircraft nonsense, and every penny counts these days - maybe that manager will be replaced with someone a little more honorably disposed to those who forged the once proud airline that they are now privileged to screw up.
Flown with a couple of ex EJ pilots who've recently joined BA who weren't doing 900 hours per year in their previous company. Not everybodys doing 900 hours in BA either, but I don't think one could say either group was clearly working harder than the other.
Am I correct in thinking that if you're on the minibus fleet out of LHR or 733 out of LGW then you spend a lot of time away night stopping around Europe?
BA running at about 160/airframe, Iberia 120/airframe and American at about 90/airframe.
This whole thread is a load of spin and tosh. The above, for example, is meaningless if BA operates services inhouse at a lower cost than an outsourcer - thereby raising the headcount figure, but operating more efficiently.
All that is certain is that most contributors here either know nothing, or work for the Daily Mail / Despatches.
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Am I correct in thinking that if you're on the minibus fleet out of LHR or 733 out of LGW then you spend a lot of time away night stopping around Europe?
Tours are a common and known part of the model - totally different from EJ, and very clear to incoming applicants to the business. What is your point?
meaningless if BA operates services inhouse at a lower cost than an outsourcer - thereby raising the headcount figure, but operating more efficiently.
- unfortunately a good theory but does not work in practice when each department is made a self-budgeting 'profit centre' and thus charges 'users' (other departments) an above market rate to cover the high running costs of an overstaffed outfit. This happened at LGW with MT who were charging 6-7 times the commercial rate for each crew transport journey. Could we get it changed? No. Too many 'industrial issues'.
Of course the money 'circulates' inside BA but all departmental budgeting/accounting costs money/time/manpower to process so it is not cost neutral as it appears. Again - it is much nicer to have your own people doing your own engineering/dispatch/check-in etc but it does cost more.
Never knew that - have you gotten an exemption to go beyond the CAP371 targets?
BA don't operate using CAP371. They have their own approved Scheme with some differences (for example, the number of earlies which can be worked in a row is greater than CAP371). The 100hr/month and 900hr/year limits are the same though. On longhaul, many of the guys are on restricted rosters as a result of hitting the 900 hour limit. On shorthaul, it's more difficult to hit the 900hr limit but at both bases, a running total of greater than 800 hours is common. The restrictions on shorthaul tend to be duty related rather than hours related.
That's not to say the company haven't applied for exemptions in the past. There was a request a couple of years ago for 100hr/month for twelve months and the CAA objected. No doubt we will see them trying to push of LH bunk time to be discounted from the total again. Can't see that happening in a hurry either.
The term manager when applied to BA is anyone that they have identified as not entitled to overtime. You work past your 37.5 hours for free on the promise of a fat bonus at year end (well July anyway). Aircraft maintenance supervisors are 'management grade', quality engineers, tech engineers etc etc - all managers. So it doesn't surprise me, that there are 1500 that have at some point, or are at the moment, in charge of a team (sometimes a team of one!) who have been offered the dosh to go. Life will go on, safety won't be compromised, we'll just do things differently and bin anything that doesn't add value.
Calm down reheat..... it's only a discussion. I think the manager/airframe ratio is a good indicator. For years people have been saying BA is top heavy...but it wasn't until this morning that I found out that BA could happily just lose 1,500 and carry on! I think you have to admit that's alarming.
As for the SH European tours..... it was just a question. No criticism, not trying to make "a point".
All managers were asked if they wished voluntary redunacy,
Well I am a BA Manager, and no-one asked me to go.
Maybe because
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Again - it is much nicer to have your own people doing your own engineering/dispatch/check-in etc but it does cost more.
We do engineering for BA at about half the cost of getting the local airline to do it.
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You work past your 37.5 hours for free on the promise of a fat bonus at year end
Yes this years was nice (before tax) but it doesn't happen very often nowadays. we are flexible, work odd shifts, come in on our days off when an aircraft breaks down, and then work to fix it with no CAP371 to tell us to go home after 18 hours!, and only DOIL to try and take sometime in the future. But their is never anyone available to come over and do your job when you want to.
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