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Old 19th July 2008, 20:23   #1 (permalink)
eagle21
 
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Spanish most likely to free more military airspace as a fuel saving measure

I am afraid link only in Spanish from www.elcorreodigital.com

Quote:
Fomento propone flexibilizar los espacios aéreos militares para que las aerolíneas reduzcan costes en plena crisis
Esta iniciativa facilitaría rutas más directas, con la consiguiente reducción de distancias, minoración de los costes energéticos, tiempos de trayectos y descenso de las emisiones


La ministra de Fomento, Magdalena Alvarez, propondrá a su colega de Defensa, Carme Chacón, una modificación encaminada a flexibilizar el tráfico de los pasillos aéreos, con el objeto de reducir costes para las aerolíneas, en plena crisis como consecuencia de la subida de los combustibles. Además, el tráfico aéreo entre Madrid y ciudades como Barcelona y Málaga se ha visto reducido con la llegada del AVE a estas capitales.
Esta iniciativa facilitaría rutas más directas, con la consiguiente reducción de distancias, minoración de los costes energéticos, tiempos de trayectos y descenso de las emisiones de substancias nocivas para el medio ambiente. La propuesta, además, se complementa con el proyecto de Cielo Único Europeo que contempla la creación de rutas más directas, mediante un uso flexible del espacio aéreo reservado a las aeronaves militares.
Concretamente, en España y en el resto de Europa, el espacio aéreo está atravesado por multitud de pasillos que recorren las aeronaves desde su despegue hasta el aterrizaje, pero estas aerovías se encuentran con el inconveniente de las reservas para uso de la navegación militar, lo que obliga a los aviones comerciales a establecer rutas más largas. Una flexibilización de ese espacio ayudaría, según Fomento, a las compañías aéreas a recortar recorridos y, con ello, optimizar tripulaciones y aparatos en otros vuelos.

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Old 19th July 2008, 22:44   #2 (permalink)
 
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Question

er, what's the point of this thread.......
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Old 19th July 2008, 23:44   #3 (permalink)
 
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In automatic translation

Automated Yahoo (it turned out better than Google) translation (slightly corrected by me) says:
Quote:
Promotion proposes to make flexible the military airspace so that the airlines reduce to costs crisis in the heat of This initiative would facilitate more direct routes, with the consequent reduction of distances, lessening of the power costs, times of passages and reduction of the emissions The minister of Promotion, Magdalena Alvarez, will propose her colleague of Defense, Car to me Chacón, a directed modification to make flexible the traffic of the aerial corridors, with the intention of reducing costs for the airlines, in the heat of crisis as a result of the ascent of fuels. In addition, the aerial traffic between Madrid and cities as Barcelona and Malaga have been reduced with the arrival of the AVE to these capitals. This initiative would facilitate more direct routes, with the consequent reduction of distances, lessening of the power costs, times of passages and reduction of the injurious substance emissions for the environment. The proposal, in addition, is complemented with the European Unique Sky project that contemplates the creation of more direct routes, by means of a flexible use of the airspace reserved to the military airships. Concretely, in Spain and the rest of Europe, the airspace is crossed by multitude of corridors that cross the airships from their takeoff to the landing, but these airways are with the disadvantage of the reserves for use of military navigation, which forces the commercial airplanes to establish longer routes. A relaxation of that space would help, according to Promotion, the airline companies to trim routes and, in this way, to optimize crews and apparatuses in other flights.
So in summary it seems that the Spanish government is proposing to remove some military restricted airspace which they claim will allow shorter routing through or to Spanish airports, to complement Single European Sky ATC. There is also a side comment that AVE (high-speed train similar to TGV) between Madrid and Barcelona and Malaga has reduced air traffic on those routes, but no immediate connection is made with how this is supposed to make life better for airlines with the current high fuel costs.
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Old 19th July 2008, 23:52   #4 (permalink)
 
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The point is:

That I can see this is the first action taken by a goverment to help airlines ( little, but at least help ) as a direct reaction to the increase in fuel price in the last 3 months. As such I think it is important to let other people in the industry know.

This comes as Spanair announced a third of their employees will loose their jobs soon.


Also it could set as an example to other countries.


In fact it could set an example on goverment and aviation bodies regarding many other procedures:

Many countries could enforce CDA approaches like the UK does.

More airports could be installed with app radars to shorten approaches.



I just tought it was worth mentioning it.

May I ask you now honestly, whether you did not get the point or you were just simply contributing in a "positive" way to this thread?
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Old 20th July 2008, 01:37   #5 (permalink)
 
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I think perhaps he was implying that the thread was pointless because it was all in Spanish with no initial translation, not implying that the subject was pointless.

Anyway, I have a question relating to the AVE high speed rail network. Firstly, does anybody know how the introduction of the service from Malaga to Madrid/Barcelona has affected airline passenger numbers. The new high speed Malaga - Madrid link is certainly very attractive in terms of duration. 2 1/2 hours I believe city centre to city centre and I'm sure I read somewhere that you will receive a full refund if it arrives more than 15 minutes late. Secondly, seeing as though the AVE is in direct competition with airlines on certain routes between key Spanish citites, will they not perceive this move as favouritism towards the airlines? Ok, the train is not as sensitive to rising fuel prices as airlines are but have the Spanish railways been given similar subsidaries/beneficial cost reducing schemes in the past?
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Old 20th July 2008, 11:13   #6 (permalink)
 
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Renfe and AVE are public companies not private
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Old 20th July 2008, 12:17   #7 (permalink)
 
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Not sure how the new AVE is impacting on Madrid-Barcelona air traffic (recently reported to have been the world's busiest air route in terms of numbers of flights) but I do know that it's possible to buy joint air/train tickets (don't know if it's with Iberia or Spanair). A case of "if you can't beat them, join them"....?
One thing which Madrid has in its favour compared with, say, London's airports is a very rapid and cheap (approx 2 euros or £1.60) metro line to the city centre. Journey time is roughly 12 minutes (somewhat longer from/to the new Terminal 4). This makes getting to the city centre a pleasure in comparison with the treks from Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted or Luton and might mean that air traffic holds up quite well. (And, yes, before anyone responds, I do realise that Madrid is a smaller city!)
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Old 20th July 2008, 12:32   #8 (permalink)

Pilot of the Airwaves
 
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Take a look at this article:

AFP: Spanish airlines feel pressure from expansion of fast train network

..and this:

Train in Spain sets out to beat the plane | More Train Less Strain
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Old 21st July 2008, 09:08   #9 (permalink)
 
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Latest figures that I received in the daily Spanish aviation news bulletin talked of a 32% decrease in pax numbers on MAD-BCN by the end of the year. For Madrid the AVE is fantastic for city center access, as indeed for BCN, the only difference being that for BCN depending on where you are going the airport can be closer. Madrid´s business is built around a concentric model whereas Barcelonas is more of a ribbon effect along the coastline.
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Old 21st July 2008, 14:15   #10 (permalink)
Morbid
 
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Today "Hosteltur" have published that 42% of all travellers (not in private car) between Madrid and Barcelona now use the AVE (high speed train). This has resulted in a 15% fall in the number of pax flying the same route.

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Old 22nd July 2008, 21:24   #11 (permalink)
Seat62K
 
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One of Spain's free newspapers, 20 minutos, reported yesterday a 14.2% decline in flights between Madrid and Barcelona. From the brief item it was not clear whether this six month decline was in comparison with the previous six months or twelve months earlier. It is, of course, difficult to gauge the degree to which the general state of the Spanish economy might have contributed to this.

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