MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07
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Air Transport Department grounds One-Two-Go Airlines for third time
Air Transport Department grounds One-Two-Go Airlines for third time.
Director-General of the Department of Air Transport has ordered additional suspension time of One-Two-Go Airlines' air travel certification. The airline will be grounded for an additional 30 days. The extension is the third to be handed down to the airline since its initial suspension ended on the 20th of September. The Department of Air Transport holds that the airline has failed to meet safety standards set by the department.
Director of the Office of Air Travel Safety Standards Wutichai Singhamanee (วุฒิชัย สิงหมณี) elaborated on the suspension of One-Two-Go's certification, saying that the carrier has failed to satisfy safety inspections especially in terms of its manual and disemination of responsibilities. He also revealed that a suspension has extended for the MD-80 Aircraft of Orient Thai Airlines which will be grounded an additional 15 days from the past 20th of September.
National News Bureau Public Relations Department
Director-General of the Department of Air Transport has ordered additional suspension time of One-Two-Go Airlines' air travel certification. The airline will be grounded for an additional 30 days. The extension is the third to be handed down to the airline since its initial suspension ended on the 20th of September. The Department of Air Transport holds that the airline has failed to meet safety standards set by the department.
Director of the Office of Air Travel Safety Standards Wutichai Singhamanee (วุฒิชัย สิงหมณี) elaborated on the suspension of One-Two-Go's certification, saying that the carrier has failed to satisfy safety inspections especially in terms of its manual and disemination of responsibilities. He also revealed that a suspension has extended for the MD-80 Aircraft of Orient Thai Airlines which will be grounded an additional 15 days from the past 20th of September.
National News Bureau Public Relations Department
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- I need to add a correction here. PiratePete and I are not in perfect agreement.
PiratePete says
Professional pilots don't get to blame the weather.
PiratePete says
.in This Order......poor Weather At Phuket,
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Flight 269 should have never left Bangkok
Tropical weather is notoriously spotty and short-lived. Of course, if the AoT equipment is OTS and not NOTAM'd, and the AeroThai WX is not caveated, then the picture at departure might have been, if not rosy, then not unflyable. Airplanes operate in heavy weather all the time.
But for Pete, I've seen wx get included as a contributing factor, but don't recall it listed as the cause of any accident (not to say it hasn't, just that I can't recall). That's the call that the guys up front are supposed to make, whether a neophyte electing to "continue VFR flight into IMC" or an experienced big iron crew electing to continue an approach into more drastic wx. The SOP's, work limits, and training, combined with experience, are the things that are supposed to aid that decision making and prevent tragedies like this.
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I note that earlier in this thread it was pointed out that the suspension was only for the MD80s. Seems this is the way out. Anyone know where these 747s are coming from?
One-Two-Go to resume operations in October
Watchiranont Thongtep, Bangkok (2008-09-22) TTG
Watchiranont Thongtep, Bangkok (2008-09-22) TTG
EMBATTLED One-Two-Go Airlines plans to resume its domestic flight operations with a
full-fledge inflight service in October, later than its original planned date
on September 15.
full-fledge inflight service in October, later than its original planned date
on September 15.
The airline has been grounded by Thailand Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) since July 22 in violation of safety regulations and substandard operations, until all safety measures, operations and human resources are found to be up to standards.
The airline's founder and CEO, Mr Udom Tantiprasongchai, said the airline was working to meet all standards required by DCA in order to resume domestic flights in October as a "full service" carrier.
Initial routes will be from Bangkok to key regional cities - Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Phuket and Krabi. The airline is set to operate using an upgraded fleet of six Boeing 747s, which are wet leased to be delivered between early next year to 2013 to replace the MD80 aircraft.
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One would hope that if the aircraft are wet leased then they will come from a reputable source with properly trained and rostered crews. However, it may well be possible that the aircraft will be the original Orient Thai 747's that have been parked up at Suvarnabhumi for many months. Create a new company and transfer ownership and (hey presto) you can 'wet lease' them back to yourself with the same poorly trained and overworked crews.
I wonder where Udom hopes to generate his passenger base from? It certainly won't be 'farangs' and in the present economic climate there won't be too many Thais with the money to spend. Hopefully the whole thing will fall flat on it's face and we'll be rid of Udom (as an airline operator at any rate) once and for all.
I wonder where Udom hopes to generate his passenger base from? It certainly won't be 'farangs' and in the present economic climate there won't be too many Thais with the money to spend. Hopefully the whole thing will fall flat on it's face and we'll be rid of Udom (as an airline operator at any rate) once and for all.
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Hang on a minute. He's stripped the MD80's as previously posted photographs have shown. In the Ad he's supposed to be re-starting next month with a fleet of 747's
So, if the first of those is due to be delivered next year, what's he thinking of using in the meantime?
The airline is set to operate using an upgraded fleet of six Boeing 747s, which are wet leased to be delivered between early next year to 2013 to replace the MD80 aircraft.
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HKT safe??
my quote>>>>...Flight 269 should have never left Bangkok....>>>
Tbavprof response -
<<<<Would have to see the dispatch release for that. And the ops manual, with TAF and trended METARS. And all the updates from the dispatcher exercising his "operational control and flight following" duties.
Tropical weather is notoriously spotty and short-lived. Of course, if the AoT equipment is OTS and not NOTAM'd, and the AeroThai WX is not caveated, then the picture at departure might have been, if not rosy, then not unflyable. Airplanes operate in heavy weather all the time.
But for Pete, I've seen wx get included as a contributing factor, but don't recall it listed as the cause of any accident (not to say it hasn't, just that I can't recall). That's the call that the guys up front are supposed to make, whether a neophyte electing to "continue VFR flight into IMC" or an experienced big iron crew electing to continue an approach into more drastic wx. The SOP's, work limits, and training, combined with experience, are the things that are supposed to aid that decision making and prevent tragedies like this.>>> END Quote
I understand from your jargon that it is the pilot's responsibility for making the decision to land in bad weather and the airport remaining open didn't contribute to the crash .
But, I'm wondering if HKT isn't grooved for hard rain landing , as I'm informed by pilots on this thread , how is it that it remained open for landings in a monsoon?
I've always maintained that the last barrier to tragedies lilke 269 is a safety minded airport. Why is it in Key West Florida, USA would shut down at weather half as bad as the weather over the HKT runway on Sept 16th, 2007 ?
It's just my opinion, from observation - that Thailand is a nightmare for safety in aviation, and it is hidden quite delliberately
The newspaper , Phuket Gazette's new editor promised to be more forthcoming in reports on this subject ,but this past week released a full flegded HKT fluff piece that has nothing to do with safety and everything about tourist numbers .
THey even allowed the director to boast, unchallenged about the flight safety standards.
God forbid tourists should know the truth about Thai airlines or anyone insist that safety reign over money.
Tbavprof response -
<<<<Would have to see the dispatch release for that. And the ops manual, with TAF and trended METARS. And all the updates from the dispatcher exercising his "operational control and flight following" duties.
Tropical weather is notoriously spotty and short-lived. Of course, if the AoT equipment is OTS and not NOTAM'd, and the AeroThai WX is not caveated, then the picture at departure might have been, if not rosy, then not unflyable. Airplanes operate in heavy weather all the time.
But for Pete, I've seen wx get included as a contributing factor, but don't recall it listed as the cause of any accident (not to say it hasn't, just that I can't recall). That's the call that the guys up front are supposed to make, whether a neophyte electing to "continue VFR flight into IMC" or an experienced big iron crew electing to continue an approach into more drastic wx. The SOP's, work limits, and training, combined with experience, are the things that are supposed to aid that decision making and prevent tragedies like this.>>> END Quote
I understand from your jargon that it is the pilot's responsibility for making the decision to land in bad weather and the airport remaining open didn't contribute to the crash .
But, I'm wondering if HKT isn't grooved for hard rain landing , as I'm informed by pilots on this thread , how is it that it remained open for landings in a monsoon?
I've always maintained that the last barrier to tragedies lilke 269 is a safety minded airport. Why is it in Key West Florida, USA would shut down at weather half as bad as the weather over the HKT runway on Sept 16th, 2007 ?
It's just my opinion, from observation - that Thailand is a nightmare for safety in aviation, and it is hidden quite delliberately
The newspaper , Phuket Gazette's new editor promised to be more forthcoming in reports on this subject ,but this past week released a full flegded HKT fluff piece that has nothing to do with safety and everything about tourist numbers .
THey even allowed the director to boast, unchallenged about the flight safety standards.
God forbid tourists should know the truth about Thai airlines or anyone insist that safety reign over money.
Last edited by ChristySweet; 5th Oct 2008 at 03:41. Reason: Mistake
N4790P
It's just my opinion, from observation - that Thailand is a nightmare for safety in aviation, and it is hidden quite delliberately
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Most of the folks following this thread also are involved in aviation in Thailand. These folks are careful and skilled, and rightfully proud of those qualities that help keep themselves and their passengers safe, completely unlike Udom Tantiprasongchai, Phuket Air, PiratePete, Skystar and the DCA agents Vitichai, Phraphom, Chaisek and many others who encourage and support unsafe flight in and about Thailand,
IMO, the issue is: The traveling public has no way to know a safe from unsafe Thai-based carrier. In fact DCA oversight is so incompetent and corrupt, there is no standard to Thai carriers. Any particular flight could be safe or unsafe depending upon the crew for each particular flight or the safety values of the airline's management.
The public must be informed. And they are about to be....
IMO, the issue is: The traveling public has no way to know a safe from unsafe Thai-based carrier. In fact DCA oversight is so incompetent and corrupt, there is no standard to Thai carriers. Any particular flight could be safe or unsafe depending upon the crew for each particular flight or the safety values of the airline's management.
The public must be informed. And they are about to be....
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There has been quite a bit of documents passed on to the proper agencies from pilots, enginerring log book pages etc.
Thailand and to include the FAA would do best to act on these reports.
Once the next accident happens the lawyers will have a field day with proof showing that pilots complained of these issues prior to the fact and nothing was done.
This is much worse than some USA company not doing the required enginerring work on time,this involves total disrespect for any and all flight duty times, Mel compliance, 3 engine takeoffs, threats and intimidation from The Indian manger, either fly or go home.
As he stated he has many Filipino and Indonesions pilots to take your job at half salary.
Thailand and to include the FAA would do best to act on these reports.
Once the next accident happens the lawyers will have a field day with proof showing that pilots complained of these issues prior to the fact and nothing was done.
This is much worse than some USA company not doing the required enginerring work on time,this involves total disrespect for any and all flight duty times, Mel compliance, 3 engine takeoffs, threats and intimidation from The Indian manger, either fly or go home.
As he stated he has many Filipino and Indonesions pilots to take your job at half salary.
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Orient Thai MD-80 back in operation
As of today (6 October 2008), Thai authority lifts the ban on MD-80 operations after various improvements have been completed. Orient Thai plans to operate MD-80 to Hong Kong first and will resume One-Two-Go operation on 23 October 2008.
The operation will be closely monitored by checkers from the Department of Civil Aviation.
The operation will be closely monitored by checkers from the Department of Civil Aviation.
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Puke Air
So the ban is being lifted, what governing agency is left?
For those that are claiming that Thai Airways is safe, you should ask the pilots with Phuket Air.
This V/P with Phuket is a ex senior managment with Thai Airways.
I attended a meeting with him a few months ago as to where the duty times were being vilotated on a certain sector as many others.
He said you were double crew and that the dead head crew to operate back from Daccar was not concidered to be on duty while dead heading on the aircraft to immedieatly operate back to Jeddah.For a 29 hour crew duty day.
Totally against any and all regulations.
There was also some recent 747 Captains that arrived in JED and left because Phuket tried to give them less pay than was offered in the beginning and from contract, when the contract was presented it was lower than the ageed rate!.,
Saudia Gaca was notified about these issues, they were told by the government to back down and look the other way.
Yes lawyers will have a field day soon.
For those that are claiming that Thai Airways is safe, you should ask the pilots with Phuket Air.
This V/P with Phuket is a ex senior managment with Thai Airways.
I attended a meeting with him a few months ago as to where the duty times were being vilotated on a certain sector as many others.
He said you were double crew and that the dead head crew to operate back from Daccar was not concidered to be on duty while dead heading on the aircraft to immedieatly operate back to Jeddah.For a 29 hour crew duty day.
Totally against any and all regulations.
There was also some recent 747 Captains that arrived in JED and left because Phuket tried to give them less pay than was offered in the beginning and from contract, when the contract was presented it was lower than the ageed rate!.,
Saudia Gaca was notified about these issues, they were told by the government to back down and look the other way.
Yes lawyers will have a field day soon.
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So the DCA hasn't finished their crash investigation (a lie, since the report was written by the NTSB and given to the DCA in June) and Orient Thai/One-Two-Go has not changed management, and yet the airline(s) have remediated all the problems that led to a highly avoidable crash causing 90 deaths.
Thailand, the laughing stock of the universe.
(More material being made public shortly.)
Thailand, the laughing stock of the universe.
(More material being made public shortly.)
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Cho Ordered the Fraud!
Now that Orient Thai/One-Two-Go/Udom and Cho have been green-lighted for flight again, here is some more information:
A letter from Cho Ting Tsang ordering the fraudulent flight hours for crash investigators
and the US lawsuits. www.InvestigateUdom.com timeline and proof, see Oct 8,2008.
More coming.
A letter from Cho Ting Tsang ordering the fraudulent flight hours for crash investigators
and the US lawsuits. www.InvestigateUdom.com timeline and proof, see Oct 8,2008.
More coming.
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So from what I see Miss Bonnie is that Odamn generated and E-mail instructing who ever was in charge of records to cover up any flight time violations.
Once this gets into court Thailand will be in some deep Ka Ka.
Udom should just shut down now, this will get much worse before its over.
Same with Phuket Air, highly qaulified 747 pilots forced to resign due to threats and intimidation from the Indian Cordinator to operate aircraft totally against any and all flying regulations.
Thai DCA with audits still no problems they found with the duty times and operating not in compliance with the MEL for Puke Air, yet records show this.
Once this gets into court Thailand will be in some deep Ka Ka.
Udom should just shut down now, this will get much worse before its over.
Same with Phuket Air, highly qaulified 747 pilots forced to resign due to threats and intimidation from the Indian Cordinator to operate aircraft totally against any and all flying regulations.
Thai DCA with audits still no problems they found with the duty times and operating not in compliance with the MEL for Puke Air, yet records show this.
Last edited by MrXrules; 9th Oct 2008 at 14:14.
The Bangkok Post says flights will probably resume around mid-November, but the final word from the regulator is not in yet. There´s also talk about Udom acquiring some 737-800 aircraft at a later date.
Bangkok Post | Business news | One-Two-Go set to fly again
Bangkok Post | Business news | One-Two-Go set to fly again