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Old 23rd Sep 2007, 18:15   #201 (permalink)
 
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The Hero of Flight 269

http://www.phuketgazette.com/news/in...ch=yes&Id=5971
Quote:
Air-crash mystery hero steps forward


PHUKET CITY: Australian Robert Borland, who was pulled from the burning wreckage of One-Two-Go Flight OG269 on Sunday by a “man in a yellow shirt”, finally had a chance to thank his savior in a meeting arranged yesterday afternoon by the staff of Bangkok Phuket Hospital, where both men are being treated for injuries sustained in the crash.


The hero was identified as Paiboon Phaphan, a 39-year-old air-conditioner mechanic and resident of Village 3, Tambon Pa Khlok, Thalang.


K. Paiboon, who suffered a back injury and walked to the meeting supported by a brace, told the Gazette in a weak voice that he was not a regular flyer and was returning from Bangkok with his boss at the time of the accident.


“I am still afraid to fly now. I think it will take some time before I will be able to fly again,” he said.


Mr Borland, 48, a 10-year resident of Phuket and a tsunami survivor, suffered a broken bone in his back and was trampled by passengers desperate to escape the burning fuselage. Thanks to K. Paiboon, he was among the last to make it out of the plane alive.


“Other people were trying to escape, and many of them were stepping over and on top of me. I was also on fire. My trousers were burning… I couldn’t get out of the aircraft, but I think there was a Thai man and he had a yellow shirt on; he dragged me through the emergency exit and onto the wing.


“Because the wing was slippery, I slid off it and fell to the ground. I was seated in the aircraft’s midsection, near the wing and the emergency exit, which was quite lucky for me,” he told the Gazette earlier.


After meeting Mr Borland, K. Paiboon recounted his own memory of the chaos. “It was raining very hard and the landing was very hard, much harder than usual, so I put my head down and braced myself against the seat in front of me,” he said.


“After we crashed with a loud bang everything went dark and a fire broke out in front of me. Then I heard a farang behind me and I saw him push open the emergency exit door.


“I was able to breath only twice because the air was burning my nose. When I managed to get out I was standing on the wing and I saw many passengers following me.”


K. Paiboon said he waited on the wing until his boss, K. Chaowalert, and his son Jumbo had escaped.


After they had safely made it out he noticed Mr Borland, with his legs on fire. Ignoring his own bleeding head wound, K. Paiboon pulled Mr Borland out onto the wing before looking back inside for more survivors.


When he looked back, Mr Borland was gone so he assumed he had slid off the wing and fallen to the ground.


Also, Jumbo became stuck in the mud below when fell off the wing. K. Paiboon pulled the boy to safety and then went to look for the boy’s mother, who was thought to be still inside the plane.


“I called but nobody answered, then the fire trucks began to arrive and they told me to come down,” he said.



K. Paiboon said he feels better now and has been cleared to leave the hospital, but will stay for a week to receive the physical therapy he needs because it is too difficult for him to travel back and forth from home in his condition.


K. Paiboon’s mother told Gazette that her son, a former soldier, had always been a good son and liked to help other people.

This guy deserves a medal.
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Old 23rd Sep 2007, 19:10   #202 (permalink)
 
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OK, could someone please explain to me after the 10 pages of blog what exactly happened? We all know the bits and pieces and just getting confused here. Was it a wind shear? I hardly believe that since the winds were 270/12 according to the weather report. Thunderstorm with bad vis? And how can you skid off the runway and call for Mayday at the same time. I thought Aviate,Navigate,Communicate was the thing to do...
I was in a 727 full motion sim last weekend and tried to land under the same meteorological conditions and I must say It was pretty bad vis and If something would go wrong at the time of landing I would loose control over the plane. Simple.
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Old 23rd Sep 2007, 19:40   #203 (permalink)
 
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Summary, sort of...

Beaver, as far as I know (from bits and pieces): second landing attempt on rwy 27, weather much worse than 270/12 + other metar info you may pick up. Some sources say heavy rain at the time + crosswind gusts up to 30 kts. Check out the "Finnish video", which has been referred to here, for weather + else on ground minutes after the crash. Plane apparently stalled, judging from limited crash footprint on ground. Wreck reportedly showed flaps 15, no spoilers nor buckets out, gear up, so basic hardware was apparently correctly set for go-around #2.
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Old 23rd Sep 2007, 19:47   #204 (permalink)
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Beaver diver;

Quote:
OK, could someone please explain to me after the 10 pages of blog what exactly happened?
You can run through the thread and put together what is known about the approach so far and you can examine the available photographs and various videos also available including a helicopter-view of the crash site taken on the day after the accident.

Along with examining the DFDR and CVR in Washington, this is what investigators will be doing, in part.

I know that you're asking for a "summary" and "probable cause" but in this case, unlike the TAM accident, there is little straightforward information/data to go on and so there is no basis upon which to make a summary at the moment.

We still do not know whether this was the first, second or third approach for this aircraft. I have read alternating reports on whether the gear was down or up. We don't know how low the aircraft was before going around and we don't know the speeds, the slat/flap settings or the pitch attitude. We dont' know what engine power was being developed nor do we know the angle of attack during the go-around phase and final descent. The information on all this including any information from ATC units who witnessed the accident (and which would be invaluable in putting together the accident sequence) is sparse indeed and what is available must all be treated as unreliable or at best, spotty.

From the photos we know that from the wreckage distribution there was not high forward speed, (in the order of approach speeds or possibly slightly less) and, relatively speaking, not high vertical speed on impact, (I'm comparing the wreckage pattern of the A300 in Nagoya and the BA111 super-stall wreckage pattern decades ago, both with high disintegration patterns but in relatively concentrated areas).

The question of how many died from post-impact smoke/fire and inability to egress as opposed to dying from initial impact forces is one which will assist in understanding the accident sequence once control was lost. The cabin structure was compromised but was still in two large sections, possibly making egress easier, (although we don't know the actual compromise of the cabin area which may be, though concentrated, still severe).

PJ2

PS; thanks md80forum - I didnt' realize it was approach #2 but haven't been following this as closely as the TAM thread. I concur with the comment regarding "stall" as the wreckage pattern shows all the standard characteristics of same but we don't have the data yet of course. I remain unconvinced that the weather played a pivotal role (as in the weather made the accident a near-inevitability) but will reserve judgement in favour of curiosity.

Last edited by PJ2; 23rd Sep 2007 at 19:51. Reason: info from md80forum
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Old 23rd Sep 2007, 20:16   #205 (permalink)
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Phil Space;

The issue of culture and cultural differences is a very large subject of extended enquiry in flight safety arenas. Thanks for mentioning it.

North American society could certainly use a lesson from Thai society in the one aspect you mention regarding respect for experience and older members of society....I digress.
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Old 23rd Sep 2007, 20:18   #206 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
It is highly unlikely that a very junior Thai co-pilot would have questioned the captains actions in this scenario.
... even though post #123 in this thread says there had been incidents with this particular Captain, where the F/O's had done so, and even taken the controls. Not sure if it was the Thai guys who spoke up, though.
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Old 23rd Sep 2007, 23:42   #207 (permalink)
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This crash reminds me of USAir at Charlotte, N.C., U.S.A. in 1994.

As I recall, there was some speculation as to the pilot suffering a somatographic illusion upon increasing throttles for go-around.
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Old 24th Sep 2007, 05:28   #208 (permalink)
 
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Baccara Bar

Phil Space

You are right in that a young Thai pilot will never tell a Captain he is *&^%ing up. There is another aspect to this however. Even if the young Thai F/O challenged the skipper at some stage, that Indonesian Captain would never listen to him as at the time of the incident, that Captain was paranoid and the level thinking will never come back to his mind.

Another comment from another message writer was accurate. People like Namfon and Sommuit are the most useless pieces of garbage in the airline industry. They like to micro manage and will listen to nobody except sit there, drink coffee in their offices and believe they are the Kings of Aviation. They know nothing except the glory of the positions they hold. This is when death in this industry happens.
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Old 24th Sep 2007, 12:17   #209 (permalink)
 
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safe/unsafe Asian LCC airlines

Would it be accurate to state the following Asian LCC's MAY have questionable safety practices:
Phuket Air, Orient Thai (1-2-GO), Thai Sky, Thai Air Asia.
And the list herewith are the 'more safe' airlines?
Air Asia, NOK, Bangkok Airways, Silkair and Tiger.
As a retired Pilot who has a daughter that flies to/from Sydney and Asia I would appreciate any helpful opinions. Thanks.

Last edited by heidelberg; 24th Sep 2007 at 12:32.
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Old 24th Sep 2007, 12:48   #210 (permalink)
 
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Harrogate
Try this link:
http://www.business.com/directory/tr..._and_security/
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Old 25th Sep 2007, 04:01   #211 (permalink)
 
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"The comments on indon pilots is a low blow, some of the best(and worst) come from there.The same for every country.We are best served by directing our venom at the owners of OX type companies who will encourage dodgy operations in the interest of making a buck"

Totally agree, as someone who comes from that country, worked there for 21 years and work in Taiwan the last 12 years, seen people coming from almost every continents I couldn't disagree with you. The quality of an individual is not related to his/her color/nationality or accent.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 09:15   #212 (permalink)
 
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On almost every day at every every airport in Asia during the summer there are warnings of "Windshear all runways". This is not unusual and rarely disrupts the normal pattern of take off and landings.
The difference is when you see a major storm on radar close to your approach and landing area. I have been on the ground in Phuket (actually on a boat to the east of the island) when, on the approach of a thunderstorm, the wind increased from zero to sixty knots over the deck in a period of ninety seconds. The squall lasted for forty five minutes at this intensity with blinding torrential rain and zero visibilty. Bad time to be on approach!
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 12:45   #213 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Mr Chaisawat said his committee still could not say who should be held responsible for the crash, but the cause must be established quickly for future air safety.
If that is a true quote than it forbodes concern. I'm not interested in who is responsible, I am interested in what actions should be taken to prevent a future similar circumstance
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 15:52   #214 (permalink)
 
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Heidelberg, your categorization effort looks quite alright for me. But Thai Air Asia and Air Asia is basically the same. Air Asia is somewhat not as bad as other airlines, but also not on the same level as national carrier and the other mentioned LCC, Jetstar and Tiger. The last two are flown mainly by western crews and managed by western managers, so you couldn't find a difference to US LCC.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 21:33   #215 (permalink)
 
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Thanks Dani for the info on the varioius airlines operating around Asia.
I've flown with Jetstar (A320) Sydney/Hamilton Island/Sydney which has a RWY 5984 feet. I also flew to Christchurch from SYD with them. The impression I got was a very professional outfit as I would expect from a Qantas owned airline.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 08:23   #216 (permalink)

 
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From today's Gazette

Thursday, September 27, 2007
One-Two-Go crash probe points to wind shear, pilot decision

BANGKOK (Nation): The probe into the crash of One-Two-Go flight OG029 points to wind shear and the pilot’s decision to land despite weather warnings as likely causes, the air crash investigation committee has announced.

“The initial finding, which encompasses the weather conditions at the time of the accident, communications between the tower and the crashed plane’s pilot as well as other witnesses points to a single conclusion,” said Chaisawat Kittipornpaiboon, permanent secretary of the Transport Ministry and chairman of the committee.

“However, we can’t confirm this until we get the black box decoding result. So far, there has been no contradictory report from the black box,” he told reporters after a meeting of aviation-related organizations.

The evidence showed the pilot and aircraft were in good condition, he said.

Radio communications between the tower and the pilot of an Orient Thai Airlines MD82 plane that landed four minutes before OG029 showed there was wind shear and the pilot had asked controllers to alert the next plane due to land.

The tower duly informed the OG029 pilot of weather and runway conditions, but it could not bar him from landing as that was his decision, he said.

Analysis of the black box should be completed tomorrow and the committee would reconvene and compare the data with its initial finding.

If the two sources did not contradict, the panel would seek the transport minister’s permission to reveal the official cause of the accident to the public, probably early next month.

Otherwise, experts would be appointed for an in-depth analysis and that would take a while.

Attending the meeting were the Civil Aviation Department, Airports of Thailand Plc, Thai Airways International, Aeronautical Radio of Thailand, Civil Aviation Training Center and Thai Pilots’ Association.

Air Vice-Marshall Vinai Plengvithaya, deputy director of air inspection and vice chairman of the committee, noted that in inspecting an air crash wreckage should be maintained in its original condition. However, in the OG029 case, all evidence had not been collected because the debris was removed to help the injured and clear the runway.

If the black box yielded data at odds with the initial finding, the Air Force will need to go to Phuket and gather more evidence, he said.

“In this investigation, we have applied the ‘3-M concept’: ‘Man’, which is pilot; ‘Material’ or the plane; and ‘Media’ or communications between the tower and pilot. In this case, our focus is inclined to the ‘Media’ factor,” he said.

Vuttichai Singhamanee, director of the Civil Aviation Department’s Flight Safety Standards Bureau, said that from his checks the MD82 aircraft which served OG029 was in good shape, as the pilot did not report any problems prior the accident. The Indonesian captain also met safety requirements, as he had flown only five hours on the fateful day.

To fly a commercial plane, pilots must be free from alcohol for at least eight hours before takeoff and must not fly more than eight hours per day or 110 hours per month or 1,000 hours per year. Pilots aged over 40 must have a medical check-up twice a year.

K. Vuttichai also noted that on the day of the accident, the Venezuelan pilot who landed Orient Thai’s MD82 plane ahead of OG029 informed the tower of the wind shears. “Normally, if the wind speed is beyond 20 knots, the tower must warn pilots. And in this case, the tower did warn the pilot.”
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 02:07   #217 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Foreign victim dies, crash toll at 90
A Welsh woman left fighting for her life after surviving the plane crash at Phuket has died, a spokeswoman for the British Foreign Office confirmed.
Bethan Jones, 22, from Wales, died in hospital in Bangkok from burns to 50 per cent of her body, suffered in the One-Two-Go crash at Phuket on Sept 16.
Two days after the crash, she was flown by Royal Thai Air Force military aircraft to a special unit in Bangkok General Hospital, but the effort to save her eventually proved futile. She never regained consciousness.
Her death brought the death toll in the accident to 90. Her body has been flown home, officials said.
The One-Two-Go flight from Bangkok skidded, crashed and burst into flames after trying to land in pouring rain at the resort.
Just three days into a planned six-month, round-the-world trip, Miss Jones and companion Alex Collins, 22, decided to leave Bangkok and head for the Thai resort of Phuket.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_....php?id=122102
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 06:42   #218 (permalink)
 
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Baccara Bar

Most of the threads about the Phuket crash are not correct. If you think I am racist, you only say that to defend your attitude in aviation. Tell me why a Captain at OX once moved the thrust levers to the stops as they were slowing down to M.80 in cruise as both pilots where asleep and the FE woke him up. The FE pulled them back and said you are overboosting the engines. He pushed them forward to the firewall again saying "we need it, we need it". There is USD 100,000 of Udoms money down the drain. The reason why Asian Aviation has many accidents is because of culture. Three reasons. One quick promotion. Two the Loss of Face thing and three the Hierachal System where a Captain will not listen to a F/O. Have a look at the accident Garuda had in a B737 recently where the skipper was a fruitcake.

I do not give a shit where you are from whether you are white, black, pink or yellow. As long as you see professionalism in attitude and outlook. Tell me why the crash happened in Malaysia where he prayed for 6 seconds believing this was his God's will before killing everybody. We would have the thrust levers forward, the stick back in our stomachs but he decided it was time for him to die. Grow up pilots and see where the real problems lie in this industry with cultures that do not think laterally.
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 06:54   #219 (permalink)
 
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not just far east,stop in the middle

so typical so true, a combination of Micro management, and culture, as stated so well by BB.

Until Alah, gets a training quaification, there will still be pilots who ingore the QFH, or other crew members input, believing they are destined to die, or live.

windy
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 16:48   #220 (permalink)
 
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surpise, surprise

"One-Two-Go victim sues Boeing
A Thai air crash victim filed the first lawsuit in the United States against the Boeing Company, the US manufacturer of the aircraft which crashed at Phuket International Airport on September 16 which left 90 people dead. "
Full report: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_....php?id=122127

Unless I missed something, I believe no cause for this crash has been established yet,....

oscarbravo
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